Chevy Spark EV

[liveforphysics]

it's still not enough to persuade people to change.

If you haven't tried a Tesla model S yet, I can see why you would think it needs to make some type of silly financial justification to go EV. ...
...... Even a LEAF with a worn out pack would suit my driving needs fine, and I don't think I'm some rare exception.

So why not get one then Luke ?
It seems you could get a new EV for <$250 month ??

My transportation needs right now are satisfied nicely by my pedal-power road bicycle for the moment. I was just noting the other day that it has been many months since I've even visited a gas station. I also have unlimited access to Zero's of course, which I also prefer over taking a cage of any type.

It's been an interesting ride to see a guy who loved both cars (and building hot-rods) and computers so much to rarely find himself using either lately. Galaxy note 3 in my pocket while pedaling my un-assisted road bicycle seems to be a better match for the life I enjoy living. It also helps me stay in shape for cyclocross racing.

 

[Hillhater]

You are fortunate indeed to live a life that doesnt need more than 2 wheel transport (or protection from bad weather ?)
I have a somewhat similar 2 wheel life, but still keep a car (+trailer) for occasional needs.
I could get by using one of the several local rent "Car share" schemes when a vehicle is needed, but sadly none of those are EV's either !

 

[-dg]

Having a transmission just kinda blows it for me in a vehicle at this point. If companies don't appreciate how much better the experience of driving a vehicle that is always in the right gear, they are going to be quickly buried by the new waves of EVs (like the spark).

I totally love sticks, but the thing is, when I'm just going somewhere on city streets I tend to drive around in second or third and use engine braking to slow down and lug it a bit through 4-way stops etc. So its one-pedal operation most of the way. Well, the Spark is way better at this. In "low gear" it regens aggressively when you lift off the throttle (also turns on the brake lights) all the way down to about 4 mph. The deceleration rate is just about right to match other traffic coming up to stop lights etc so you only need to use the brake to make a complete stop and hold it. Pretty sweet.

Also from say 20 to 60 it is really strong. Below 20 it's traction or amp limited. Driving like this will show up on the projected range display, it's clearly less efficient

As for range, it's 41 miles from here in Oakland to a client in San Jose, so 82 miles round trip. This is the specified range for the Spark, so no margin. There is a chargepoint near there which would totally solve the problem, but I don't know if it will be available when I'm there. So I'm debating whether to take the Fit today, or the Spark. I'd really like to take the Spark, just to see if it will do the round trip, but the problem is that there are no charge points near me, so if I get 78 miles I'm kinda screwed. I don't much mind an adventure so I might do it anyway, but the prudent thing would be to drive the car enough before attempting this to know what it can do and how accurate the estimates are. This trip is probably the longest one we make regularly but it is only a couple times a month, so it would be great if it will do it, but not a big deal if it won't. I suspect it will and plan to find out soon enough.

 

[flathill]

Ireland and all other islands should have more Tesla's than anyone. I was really sad to see a while back only 1 reservation for a Model S in all off Ireland. Elon could have set you guys up to drive for free forever in 1 month with permits expedited. California is 6 times the size of Ireland. You will be more than covered when you get your heads out of your asses.

https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=295135

Now I know why. Who controls the news in Ireland?

google search results for Model S news:

#1 newspaper in San Francisco
site:sfgate.com tesla "model s"
About 12,400 results

#1 newspaper in Ireland
site:www.independent.ie tesla "model s"
6 results

'Irish Independent' wins seven prizes including scoop of the year at National Newspaper Awards hahahHAHAHAHAAHHA

Ireland is a small island with a hell of a lot less wealthy people who can afford to spend 70,000 Euro's on a Model S.

Elon Musk was here last week at the web summit in Dublin and after he went clubbing in the local clubs, he didn't however say he was planning a supercharger network here.

No doubt he was thinking of how he could set up a company here and save billions by not paying tax.

Man you are easy to fool. England had to "crush" the Celtic Tiger economy a few years ago to get the working man under control and depressed again. But the wealth is still there. How do you explain the number one selling car in Ireland last month was the BMW 5 series? What a bunch of suckers never learning from history.

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2013/10/03/ireland-september-2013-bmw-5-series-1-again-seat-leon-3/

"September is turning out to be BMW’s month in Ireland: while last year the 3 Series was the #1 model in the country, this time it’s the 5 Series that takes this honour thanks to 223 sales and a huge 7% market share. This is the 2nd month in a row the 5 Series tops the sales charts in Ireland which is starting to look rather strange if you ask me. "

http://external.bmw.ie/sausage/templates/bmw06/downloads/BMWModelRangePricelist.pdf

Vehicle registration tax or VRT is a tax that must be paid in Ireland when registering a motor vehicle.

VRT is calculated as a percentage of the open market selling price (OMSP) of the vehicle. The OMSP is the "expected retail price" and includes all taxes (Including VAT) previously paid in the state.

CO2 Emissions 226g and over 36% of OMSP

" The Irish Independent described the 1916 Easter Rising as "insane and criminal" and famously called for the shooting of its leaders.[9] In December 1919, during the Irish War of Independence, a group of twenty IRA men destroyed the printing works of the paper, angered at its criticism of the Irish Republican Army and largely pro-British and Unionist stance. In 1924, the traditional nationalist newspaper, the Freeman's Journal, merged with the Irish Independent."

Imagine if you fools had bought electric 3000 Model S vehicles with zero grams of CO2 emission instead of 3000 5 series BMWs...this year

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN. YOU ARE INSANE TO BE LIVING ON A SMALL ISLAND AND NOT DRIVE AN EV RIGHT NOW. DUDE YOU ARE PAYING THE EQUIVALENT OF 8-9 US DOLLARS A GALLON FOR FUEL! (we pay 3.50 USD a gallon in the USA) Ireland also has an ideal mild climate for low tech battery EVs. Please spread this message. This is not directed at you. Thanks

---------------
Back to the Chevy Spark. F Government Motors. F them for putting in only a 3.3kw charger and making it so ugly. A good reason to buy or lease one though is they are losing money on every sale Plus how awesome will it be when my E9 BMW with a spark motor swap has 450 foot pounds of torque direct driving the 4.44:1 rear end

 

[oatnet]

While I agree a 50 mile Leaf might be enough for a lot of people it is on the low side...

Range must get to at least a real 200 miles at 60-70 mph, along with fast recharge times.

Most people care about the times when the ev will not reach the destination a couple of times a year, this is a major concern and won't go away.

I think this misconception will go away when one manufacturer offers an "disruptive technology" EV that is much cheaper than ICE cars, because when an EV costs just as much as an ICE, consumers expect it to handle the same duty cycle. By sizing the battery pack down to a 35 mile range and leveraging the economies of an electronic drivertrain, one can build a hyperlight EV, sufficient to meet 90% of US drivers' daily commuting needs, for far less than an ICE vehicle. Consumers would be more inclined to buy a cheap EV as a second car, or save money using a cheap EV year-round and rent an ICE car for those "couple of times a year" when they need to go further. NEV's are a step in the right direction, but they are crippled by impractical speed restrictions.

A few years back I built my Vectrix with over 3 times the range I need for my commute. I've been commuting on it daily since then, but I've never used more than half it's capacity -- and I only went that far only 3 times, goofing around. There have been 4 additional times where I wanted more range than the Vectrix, but I had other needs driving me to use a gas car anyhow. That got me to thinking - I could have saved 2/3 the cost, and been carrying around 1/3 the weight, if I had sized the pack to my duty cycle instead of trying to cram in as much range as possible - because I never used or needed that extra range. That is why my Dune Buggy Conversion's pack is sized to a 35 mile range, when I could have easily crammed in triple that amount using modules I already have sitting around.

Until batteries reach the energy density and price point of gasoline, ICE will excel at long range and hauling. Within the density/cost range of current battery technology, EVs enable lightweight builds and excel at short-range trips that make them a better choice for commuting. Obviously they won't be a good fit for everyone, it's all about identifying the duty cycle and picking the right solution for it, instead of trying to make EVs a replacement for ICEs.

-JD

 

[liveforphysics]

Imagine if you fools had bought electric 3000 Model S vehicles with zero grams of CO2 emission instead of 3000 5 series BMWs...this year

Fortunately, not all the worlds populations are fools. In the bay area, driving anywhere is like a Tesla Model S parade. I have only a couple mile commute and see them everyday. Santa Cruz is full of LEAFs, Tesla's, even Focus electrics and Spark EV's are quite common.

In the bay area the Model S choice over gas cars in the same price range is a no-brainer. I didn't imagine I would ever drive a car that makes a new 5-series or 7-series or A6 or (insert your luxo-cage of choice here) feel like driving a rubbish pile, but that's exactly what the Model S has done for myself and anyone else with a brain switched-on in the bay area it seems.

It's not an issue of achieving parity with gas cars, it provides an experience so radically better it's unfair to the stinking vibrating jerky shifting (and hence not always in the right gear) gas cars to even try to compare.

The bay area can't be the only place in the world with smart people (though I do feel it's got a much higher percentage of them than anywhere else I've lived). The model S will eventually become ubiquitous in other places as well.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

But the wealth is still there. How do you explain the number one selling car in Ireland last month was the BMW 5 series? What a bunch of suckers never learning from history.

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2013/10/03/ireland-september-2013-bmw-5-series-1-again-seat-leon-3/

"September is turning out to be BMW’s month in Ireland: while last year the 3 Series was the #1 model in the country, this time it’s the 5 Series that takes this honour thanks to 223 sales and a huge 7% market share. This is the 2nd month in a row the 5 Series tops the sales charts in Ireland which is starting to look rather strange if you ask me. "

http://external.bmw.ie/sausage/templates/bmw06/downloads/BMWModelRangePricelist.pdf

Vehicle registration tax or VRT is a tax that must be paid in Ireland when registering a motor vehicle.

VRT is calculated as a percentage of the open market selling price (OMSP) of the vehicle. The OMSP is the "expected retail price" and includes all taxes (Including VAT) previously paid in the state.

CO2 Emissions 226g and over 36% of OMSP

" The Irish Independent described the 1916 Easter Rising as "insane and criminal" and famously called for the shooting of its leaders.[9] In December 1919, during the Irish War of Independence, a group of twenty IRA men destroyed the printing works of the paper, angered at its criticism of the Irish Republican Army and largely pro-British and Unionist stance. In 1924, the traditional nationalist newspaper, the Freeman's Journal, merged with the Irish Independent."

Imagine if you fools had bought electric 3000 Model S vehicles with zero grams of CO2 emission instead of 3000 5 series BMWs...this year

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN. YOU ARE INSANE TO BE LIVING ON A SMALL ISLAND AND NOT DRIVE AN EV RIGHT NOW. DUDE YOU ARE PAYING THE EQUIVALENT OF 8-9 US DOLLARS A GALLON FOR FUEL! (we pay 3.50 USD a gallon in the USA) Ireland also has an ideal mild climate for low tech battery EVs. Please spread this message. This is not directed at you. Thanks

---------------
Back to the Chevy Spark. F Government Motors. F them for putting in only a 3.3kw charger and making it so ugly. A good reason to buy or lease one though is they are losing money on every sale Plus how awesome will it be when my E9 BMW with a spark motor swap has 450 foot pounds of torque direct driving the 4.44:1 rear end

Man what a post ? you ok in the head ?

Of all the 73,390 cars sold so far in 2013 in Ireland only 1,588 were a 5 series Bavarian Motor Works. So whatever sold in November or last 2 months doesn't mean much.

The top model was an average man's Eco Box a VW Golf with 3,536 sales followed in 2nd place by the Nissan Qashqai.

And probably most of the BMW sales and Audi are most likely company purchases or leasing companies, private buyers in Ireland rarely lease but PCP is starting to gain traction here, but you got the big balloon payments which are not very attractive.

Diesel sales so far =53,277

Petrol 19,496

Electric 45

Hybrid 570

before 2008 cars were taxed based on Engine CC and now they are taxed on Co2, before 2008 petrol cars made the greatest sales followed by diesel.

So essentially the Government and the E.U promote the filthiest of fuel in out towns and cities, so ignoring the actual harmful emissions from diesels that are proven to cause heart disease and cancer. Most people now now think Co2 is a pollutant.

We might be insane to be living on a small Island with few electric cars, I agree with you on that, however the general public do not care what powers their car as long as it gets them where they want to go and it's reasonably affordable, and it has the range required when they need it, don't forget you'll loose far more on a Nissan leaf than a Volkswagen Golf, which would amount to much more than the savings from an electric car despite our 9 Dollar per gallon fuel prices.

Then the uncertainty of battery life, and the fact Nissan still refuse to replace the battery for a new one when it's no longer of use could mean the car is worthless after 75,000 miles. SO not very useful for the 2nd hand buyer, unless it's strictly used for town runs. But again people won't buy such a restrictive car as has been shown in sales figures.

So while there are a lot of savings in running a leaf, the overall savings are probably about the same when you take into account the horrific depreciation on a leaf compared to a Golf.

+ 2nd hand car sales, we should not forget most people don't want to be hit with depreciation and interest and so there is great value in 2nd hand cars that buying new ev's just would never make sense as there would never be a pay back.

If I look at the crv, it cost us 2k Euro's and we won't loose much on depreciation if at all, it costs 710 Euro's a year to tax and maybe 20-30 a week in petrol and no loans, so buying a new ev for 27K euro's would not make sense, however if buying new it may make sense, but depreciation is a major problem, but not for the 2nd hand buyer !

So the average guy ain't such a fool as you say after all ?

I'll probably pick a leaf up when they're cheap enough maybe 8k or less or more depending on the longevity of the battery. It could easily replace the 13 year old 30 mpg imp mpg crv.

 

[liveforphysics]

With a cool/temperate climate, a LEAF pack is going to age very well.

From what I've heard, the LEAFs with substantial range loss live in parking lots with surface temps >120f most of the time. Does that sound like it's a concern in Ireland?

 

[o00scorpion00o]

With a cool/temperate climate, a LEAF pack is going to age very well.

From what I've heard, the LEAFs with substantial range loss live in parking lots with surface temps >120f most of the time. Does that sound like it's a concern in Ireland?

Can't Remember exactly but I think the highest mileage leaf is somewhere more northern in the United States, around 75,000 miles and 17% loss, now I'd have to go back over to leaftalk to get the specifics.

No heat isn't going to be an issue here, however it is sufficiently cold enough to experience a fair range loss.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

While I agree a 50 mile Leaf might be enough for a lot of people it is on the low side...

Range must get to at least a real 200 miles at 60-70 mph, along with fast recharge times.

Most people care about the times when the ev will not reach the destination a couple of times a year, this is a major concern and won't go away.

I think this misconception will go away when one manufacturer offers an "disruptive technology" EV that is much cheaper than ICE cars, because when an EV costs just as much as an ICE, consumers expect it to handle the same duty cycle. By sizing the battery pack down to a 35 mile range and leveraging the economies of an electronic drivertrain, one can build a hyperlight EV, sufficient to meet 90% of US drivers' daily commuting needs, for far less than an ICE vehicle. Consumers would be more inclined to buy a cheap EV as a second car, or save money using a cheap EV year-round and rent an ICE car for those "couple of times a year" when they need to go further. NEV's are a step in the right direction, but they are crippled by impractical speed restrictions.

Yes if you could buy a (real) 35 mile range ev for a few thousand euro's then perhaps people would make a change, but for families that can't afford two cars then this would not work.

I'm sure the leaf with a worn battery would still meet the needs of a lot of people.

A few years back I built my Vectrix with over 3 times the range I need for my commute. I've been commuting on it daily since then, but I've never used more than half it's capacity -- and I only went that far only 3 times, goofing around. There have been 4 additional times where I wanted more range than the Vectrix, but I had other needs driving me to use a gas car anyhow. That got me to thinking - I could have saved 2/3 the cost, and been carrying around 1/3 the weight, if I had sized the pack to my duty cycle instead of trying to cram in as much range as possible - because I never used or needed that extra range. That is why my Dune Buggy Conversion's pack is sized to a 35 mile range, when I could have easily crammed in triple that amount using modules I already have sitting around.

Yes I remember the conversion to headway cells, very interesting. How are the cells holding up ?

A lot of people just can't afford to have a restrictive vehicle in case they need to make a trip, despite it maybe only happening twice a year, if there is an emergency and the wife needs to take one of the children to the doctor................... this is a concern for many people. I've debated this with people many times and it won't change the minds of people, the range issue is a huge one.

Until batteries reach the energy density and price point of gasoline, ICE will excel at long range and hauling. Within the density/cost range of current battery technology, EVs enable lightweight builds and excel at short-range trips that make them a better choice for commuting. Obviously they won't be a good fit for everyone, it's all about identifying the duty cycle and picking the right solution for it, instead of trying to make EVs a replacement for ICEs.

-JD

Depends on your commute, commutes here are one of the longest in Europe !

I do accept the range of the leaf is enough for many people and with fast charging/work charging it's suitable for much more.

For instance if I were to commute to Dublin City, then unless I have work parking I can't drive or I face huge parking fees, so I got to park at the tram stop aka( Luas ) at the Red Cow which is 40 miles away, no problem, there are 22 kw chargers on site so the car will be charged for the return trip of 80 miles. It could do 120 miles in winter.

We need big changes in policy and the car companies will not play ball they already blocked attempts by the E.U to make them make higher mpg cars. However future emissions regulations might see the end of Diesel once and for all and it may just spark a e.v revolution.

 

[Punx0r]

Guy's, I know many of you mean well, but you know one thing that puts the majority of people off EVs? The "holier-than-thou" attitude from proponents.

It is offensive and harmful to the promotion of EV's to call people stupid for not driving a Model S.

I'd love one, but getting one is a totally unrealistic proposition.

There is no Tesla presence in Ireland. No advertising, no infrastructure, no awareness. Nothing.

There are lots of Model Ss in California, but then it's always been a concentrated area for hybrids and EVs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but CARB species that car manufacturers must sell a miniumum number of low and zero-emission vehicles each year? So if they want to sell ICEs in Cali, they must also sell BEVs and hybrids. I wonder how many are sold at a loss in order to make up the numbers?

Probably explains why many of these cars are lease-only and/or unavailable outside specific states, let alone the U.S.

Lastly, I agree that a small, cheap, efficient EV may be what's required to encourage mass adoption. It's worked for many ICE cars in the past. The G-wiz was/is very popular (apparently used ones were selling for more than new retail due to demand), despite being a 40mph death-trap.

 

[oatnet]

Fortunately, not all the worlds populations are fools. In the bay area, driving anywhere is like a Tesla Model S parade. I have only a couple mile commute and see them everyday. Santa Cruz is full of LEAFs, Tesla's, even Focus electrics and Spark EV's are quite common.

I see that in LA too - in 16.1 miles of commuting, I now see dozens of factory electrics very day.

In the bay area the Model S choice over gas cars in the same price range is a no-brainer. I didn't imagine I would ever drive a car that makes a new 5-series or 7-series or A6 or (insert your luxo-cage of choice here) feel like driving a rubbish pile...

Same here - I've been a car NUT all my life, but somewhere between converting the VW Bus and learning to commute on the Vectrix, I lost all interest in Gasoline cars. They seem heavy and noisy and awkward to me now, and the best and newest excite me as much as mouldy rusted-out 1970's Buicks - even the Audi R8 diwn the street seems like an Edsel or a Model T, I wonder how they put up with it. Don't get me started in the Harley's that pull up next to me at stoplights - what a shame to ruin a nice ride with all that noise and vibration. My subscriptions to Autoweek and Road and Track have expired, and I've stop sifting through eBay for the right Ferrari. I loved my s2000, but I'd rather drive my old beat-up civic sedan with an auto trans and quiet engine, so I probably should sell it and free up space.

-JD

 

[liveforphysics]

Same here - I've been a car NUT all my life, but somewhere between converting the VW Bus and learning to commute on the Vectrix, I lost all interest in Gasoline cars. They seem heavy and noisy and awkward to me now, and the best and newest excite me as much as mouldy rusted-out 1970's Buicks - even the Audi R8 diwn the street seems like an Edsel or a Model T, I wonder how they put up with it. Don't get me started in the Harley's that pull up next to me at stoplights - what a shame to ruin a nice ride with all that noise and vibration. My subscriptions to Autoweek and Road and Track have expired, and I've stop sifting through eBay for the right Ferrari. I loved my s2000, but I'd rather drive my old beat-up civic sedan with an auto trans and quiet engine, so I probably should sell it and free up space.

-JD

Same boat here. It's either an EV or it just feels like stumbling around on a dinosaur. Driving gas cars feels more like punishment than pleasure.

 

[oatnet]

Lastly, I agree that a small, cheap, efficient EV may be what's required to encourage mass adoption. It's worked for many ICE cars in the past. The G-wiz was/is very popular (apparently used ones were selling for more than new retail due to demand), despite being a 40mph death-trap.

Good point - I remember when the Honda CVCC's started selling here, and Detroit did not think they would catch on because they were so tiny and underpowered... But their price point, reliability, and economy of operation revolutionized the automotive industry.

Price point is key - build a cheap EV, and people will forget all about range anxiety, and focus on what range they can get by with, and how much money they will save over buying an ICE.

-JD

 

[oatnet]

Same boat here. It's either an EV or it just feels like stumbling around on a dinosaur. Driving gas cars feels more like punishment than pleasure.

Yep yep! Do you still have your hot-rod motor-swap Civic? If yes, when was the last time you drove it?

-JD

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Same boat here. It's either an EV or it just feels like stumbling around on a dinosaur. Driving gas cars feels more like punishment than pleasure.

I test drove the leaf last December and I really loved it. I probably would have one if I had the money for one now, but I wouldn't be saving money due to the crippling depreciation, but I would most likely have one for the driving experience. Instant torque in a car is just amazing.

Apart from a few enthusiasts, no one else has an interest in electric cars, in fact quiet a lot of people are not interested in cars and see them as just a means of transport and as mush as we can't understand this, it's fact.

In a conversation I had with one man last year I asked him would he be interested in an electric car and he said not really, I asked him why and he said why should I ? I said it will save you money and told him that 50 Euro's worth is equal to about 2000 miles in electric. He was impressed however he said that he pays 20 Euro's a week maybe 30 max and he can't afford a new electric car, that 20-30 euro is within his budget and he has no loans for a car or interest to pay and he knows the car will last him easily another 5 years.

 

[Punx0r]

Price point is key - build a cheap EV, and people will forget all about range anxiety, and focus on what range they can get by with, and how much money they will save over buying an ICE.

-JD

That's a good example

The original Fiat 500, the Austin Mini and I guess even the Ford Model T are more examples. Design for economy, poverty-spec but sold like hot cakes. I can't speak for the others, but in the case of the mini I know it wasn't just hard-up folk buying them, they quickly became a fashion statement for the rich and famous. It's perhaps noteworthy that all these examples still have keen followings today.

Hell, you could well have a situation where you sell people a cheap, minimum spec EV and then sell them a bunch of aftersales upgrades. I can think of a few examples of consumer products where people buy a cheap base model and then spend 50-100% again modding/upgrading it. It's just a case of getting a foot in the door, the punters into the store with the low initial outlay.

 

[flathill]

If you are a mission to be independent
the first step is to cut yourself loose
so no longer they have any strings to pull
3d printed flying homes
positive energy
home grown
water from air
electric transport is the end game
the sun always shines on my block

 

[LSBW]

Lucky americans http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/06/tesla-model-s-sells-400000-china/

 

[Hillhater]

The VW, Ford "T", Fiat 500, Citroen 2CV, etc etc were all basic economy cars that developed "cult" status, ....
.....but the Mini (original version) is the only one to become truly "classless" and be accepted across all levels of society. It was also the only one to have a range spanning from a <$1k basic 850cc painted "eco" utility box, up to a production high performance , competition winning, "Cooper "S" ,...and the luxury >$20k coach built Vanden Plas ! ( not to mention the many utility variations ..pick ups, vans, "woodys", "Mokes", convertibles, etc etc )
I dont think there is another car with such a history, though the Beetle had huge sales, it never had the factory performance options, or competition success, and was never accepted across society in the same fond way as the Mini.

 

[-dg]

Sorry to thread-jack a Spark EV thread like this, but ...

I took my new Spark EV for a little canyon/hills run tonight. Climbed Claremont out of Berkeley, south on Skyline, down Redwood road to Hwy 13. Lots of twisties. Long ago, never mind how long but the statute of limitations has run, I used to blast around in these hills on my RD400 and later in my turbo'd Miata. I did not do that tonight. It was dark, there were deer out, and the area has become a lot more built up since then, so you can only flog it for a few turns here and there. Plus hitting a deer or hillside is an inauspicious start to a three year lease. So this was no way a flat out drive, just a chance to get more sense of the car.

Pretty flat cornering, responsive well weighted steering, but not much feedback, I did not push hard or slide it around so who knows how it handles when pressed, but it was not bad for just hurrying along with. Strong instant acceleration, it startled me the first couple times, enough to get yourself in trouble. The tires are not very grippy and the traction control comes on in any corner exit under 40 mph and over crests. There is some torque steer, possibly aggravated by the traction control. Sticky tires would probably perk it up. Because it is so quiet and because the traction control limits it to the occasional chirp from the tires it would probably be possible to go pretty quickly without attracting a lot of notice.

Going up Claremont fast knocked a bunch off the estimated range which tries to project range based on recent history. It recovered quite a bit of it coming down Redwood Rd which is a mile of 10.5% grade. The regen is very effective, it was showing 40+ KW of regen and it held the speed to under 35 mph coming down Redwood. Our old Accord stick in second gear would just keep picking up speed until it hit the redline (I never tried to see what happened after that).

After 25 miles of spirited driving 1/3 on the freeway and the rest in the hills it was estimating 46 more miles for a total of 61. Normal driving has it projecting 80 miles. Not too big a penalty for as much fun as it was.

It is claimed that it does 0-60 in 7.5 seconds. I suspect that the controller and traction control limit the power at the low end and that above 60 it is starting to run out of KV. It would be interesting to get acceleration comparisons from 25 to 50 mph. It feels really really strong in that range.

Overall, the car is not bad, I'm very pleased with it so far. It falls short of a Honda Fit in about seven different ways, particularly displays and controls. However, the powertrain is brilliant, which makes up for a lot. In something like a Miata it would be an absolute blast.

 

[-dg]

Good point - I remember when the Honda CVCC's started selling here, and Detroit did not think they would catch on because they were so tiny and underpowered... But their price point, reliability, and economy of operation revolutionized the automotive industry.

The turning point was 1974 when the new safety and emissions standards really took effect. The Detroit companies had basically invested in lawyers and lobbying to delay the regulations. Honda in 1969 canceled their F1 racing program and reassigned resources to develop CVCC. Perhaps the US car-makers had decided "The government is not the boss of me! We'll make cars that people will complain to their senator about and get this repealed!". Because come 1974 the only car you could buy that ran correctly was the CVCC Civic. Everything else coughed and wheezed asthmatically and dieseled on after shutdown. Even the seat belt alerts in US cars were seriously annoying buzzers instead of little chimes. I blame the decline of US car making on management behaving like a bunch of entitled fuckheads.

So it was a bit of an "out of body experience" to find myself at a Chevy dealer buying a car.

 

[-dg]

Spark EV ownership update.

We are getting a level 2 charger (240v 3.3kw) installed hopefully next week. So far we have been getting by with the level 1 (120v 1.4kw) charger that comes with the car, with the cord draped out a window near the driveway.

The Spark EV dash has many more features than my Honda Fit. But it is a bit too full of surprises and embarrassments. It honks when you flash the high beams, the alarm goes off if you use a key to open it instead of the radio fob, and somehow my passengers have a hard time with the door locks. The Fit is incredibly easy to use, all the controls are where you expect them to be, they do what you expect them to do and they don't do weird things autonomously, like honk or turn the lights on for no particularly good reason.

No doubt I'm disposed to think that the Fit controls are logical because I have driven mostly Hondas for the past 30 years. But there is a reason for all those Hondas. I clearly remember getting my first 81 Civic and what a great impression it made, having everything right where it was supposed to be. And somehow they managed to not screw that up since. Contrast this with eg my father-in-laws Buick with the headlight switch on a little knob on the drivers door arm rest. Seriously? the headlights? on the door? At least it was on the drivers door.

The Spark has nothing as bad as that, but there are some ergonomics nitpicks:

- There is no need to duplicate the climate controls on a display and with knobs.
- It would be nice to be able to turn the radio off without turning off the whole display.
- It is too easy to hit a button below the touch screen by accident with another finger hanging down when trying to hit a menu item on the screen.
- The power mirror select switch is really cheap feeling. It makes this brittle snap when you toggle it left/right like it's about to break.
- The seat heater switches are too low and far forward, you have to bend and stretch to reach them. Better locations would be with the climate buttons, or the side of the seat, or even on the armrest.
- Of all the climate controls, the hard to reach seat heater controls are the only ones not duplicated on the display/menus. Did they run out of menu items? Why are they so far away anyway, did they run out of wire?
- The "energy flows" display screen is pointless as it duplicates information already on the "DIC" (Criver Information Center, heh heh. AKA speedometer) with a less informative and even sillier animation of electricity flowing to the wheels. Why waste code on this when it could have been spent fixing the other energy screens? Eg, the graph background lines on the "energy history graph" are the same in international units mode as in US mode. However a line per 4kw/100km makes sense. Sadly in Miles mode there are 4 lines per 3 miles/kwh means each line represents 3/4 mile/kwh. Which is pretty hard to interpret. Either change the scale to match the background lines, or change the background lines, but don't make us multiply fractions in our heads.
- Why does the energy history graph have the y axis zero on the right side and travel from right to left? Just weird.
- Why can't you find out the remaining KWh in the battery? Or the amount required to charge it? The projected range is not really a substitute if you are trying to figure out how long it will take to charge, instead of how far you can go.
- The screen to set the electric utility rate schedule was a complete brain twizzler the first few tries even though I knew what they were doing and why. They were building a table of the schedule for one 24 hour interval from five non-overlapping segments starting at midnight by just specifying the end point of each segment. But that is not how people do this sort of task. People make a list with the start and end time of each segment. What the Spark does is sort of like making change by stacking coins up and then measuring the height of the stack. Sure, it works, but no-one does that.

Don't get me wrong, I really really like my Spark EV, the space utilization is good, it handles pretty well, the ride isn't bad, and all that instant silent thrust makes up for a lot of minor sins.

 

[liveforphysics]

My buddy at work got one. We both love it, but will be adding a cycle analyst ASAP for the reasons you list that it solves.

 

[-dg]

My buddy at work got one. We both love it, but will be adding a cycle analyst ASAP for the reasons you list that it solves.

One thing I am particularly charmed by, the option on the speedometer pod display to display the GPL compliance notice telling you where you can download the gnu/linux source code that runs part of the car. i knew linux would take over computing and predicted as much back in 1995, but I did not expect to be driving it.