Chinese Tuk Tuk, need some hive wisdom

[cincinnati.kid]

Hello all, glad to have found this forum. i've found great info here already, but now have some specific questions:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...m=a2700.7724857.normalList.16.34ba3385GjvN8h

Background:
some friends of mine own a wedding event space. they bought an electric Tuk Tuk on Alibaba.com. came with no instructions or schematic. I am a motorcycle mechanic, they asked if i would come take a look at it and see if i could help. This is my first foray into EV technology, but I love a challenge and love learning about new technologies. This is like trying to put together a puzzle blindfolded. Every label or bit of potentially helpful information is in Chinese. I wired up the 5x12v batteries in series to give the 60v motor what it desires. At this point, the lights come on, the accessories function, but the motor doesn't respond to any throttle inputs.

The controller was a big of a mystery until yesterday. Most connections are made, but some wire ends are left disconnected. I was able to email the company in China and get an english version of the wire pinout. very helpful.

The first 5 wires listed are all disconnected. The hall sensor wires are patched to the motor. The throttle wires are patched to the throttle on the handlebars of the vehicle, but I haven't been able to meter any DCv between any of the leads. (This seems like a problem, but maybe it has to do with the next paragraph...) The fwd/reverse wires are patched to a thumbswitch on the handlebars, labeled in Chinese. The low level brake harness is disconnected. The wires going to the 60v battery source are patched, as are the 3 motor phases.

I have a feeling that the issue with my unresponsive motor has everything to do with the Red 01 connection, "Electric Key Lock Switch Wire", which is not connected to anything @ this point. I have seen from some reading in other threads here that this wire would want to see +5v to activate the controller. Currently, I can choose from 60DCv or 12DCv, on either side of the DC-DC converter. I don't have a 5v source. can i feed 12v to the Electric Key Lock Switch Wire?

Similarly, I have a question about the Low Level brake. Currently, the Vehicle only has a rather pathetic looking rear wheel drum braking system. There is a Brake Switch that activates the brake lights on the vehicle, And I think I could use that electrical functionality to patch into the Motor Controller's brake system. Perhaps, though, since the brake switch is a N/O 12v momentary switch, it would be best patched to the Orange wire High Level brake system? The brake lights will trigger the motor to disable itself.

Any clue what the last wires, "Motor rotation direction changes after connection" are for?

Thanks for reading, and for being a very helpful community, as I've read so far.

 

[flat tire]

Usually you would put wire 01 (red) to your full pack voltage positive lead straight from the powertrain battery. You can have a switch to turn it on or off. It enables the go-logic in the controller.

 

[cincinnati.kid]

Excellent information...
I didn't want to fry that circuit in the speed controller by feeding 60v into it if it only wanted 5v!

thanks!!
if this works, and the controller comes to life, I'll hopefully be able to tinker and figure out most of the other issues

 

[Dauntless]

You'll have to look for what's right for you, but they're loaded with stuff.

https://aliexpress.com/item/32975081632.html

 

[amberwolf]

If you want to know for sure what voltage that wire hooks up to, you can open the controller and trace where the wire goes.

If it's like most, that are powered off the batteryvoltage, they connect to the input of the LVPS (low voltage power supply) that generates the 12v / 5v to power the controller brain (MCU) and hall sensors, etc. The pad the wire goes to is usually near the big can capacitors at the battery input.

It's often called Keyswitch or Ignition. Sometimes electric lock.

*Some* of the things labeled electric lock are also called antitheft, and aren't the "power switch" but instead lock up the wheel by actively powering it against movement.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Larger systems like this often have a reverse, I suspect that is your "motor rotation" question

 

[cincinnati.kid]

so i applied 60v to the 01 Red wire, and it enabled the motor to spin, using the throttle. I had an inquiry open with the company via email in order to get an english copy of that wire labeling, and the nice chinese human on the other side of the line was kind enough to also confirm that it needed 60v.

now it's onto smaller tasks of making it safer and driveable for a stranger.

seriously this thing is a big hunk of danger junk.
which is obviously fun.

thanks again y'all. the presence of this board and this first project has me inspired to create a EV project from scratch in the future

 

[amberwolf]

seriously this thing is a big hunk of danger junk.

Even worse than this? :lol:

 

[cincinnati.kid]

seriously this thing is a big hunk of danger junk.

Even worse than this? :lol:

from the looks of it, that machine has at least one brake lever.... one more than i'm working with!! my front wheel has a drum brake but no cable to actuate it...

Brakes are my new problem. ive got the tuk tuk going, but the braking system is completely underspec'd and useless @ this time.

the brake light LED's use 60v, switched through a cam actuated spring pulling a plunger switch. touchy, hard to tune in.

the brakes are applied through the driver's foot, similar to a car, but the slop in the brake lever is atrocious. one threaded rod from the brake lever goes to a long brake shaft under the cabin, where two cams turn to transmit brake force through two other threaded rods to each rear wheel drum brake. the left threaded rod is bent as to be non-serviceable (intentionally??? who knows!)

so with the mechanical brakes, i've adjusted to the ends of what I can do without getting the portaband... basically useless.
i tapped into the brake light 60v and patched that into the Brake High [orange] wire on the controller. when the brake lights actuate, the controller disables the throttle input, but provides no "resistance to motion" Braking Force, so to speak. I keep on coasting, brake pedal jammed to the floor, while the tuk tuk just slows and stops eventually.

is this typical performance? if my controller doesn't have a regenerative braking function, is this all i can expect from my electronics?

btw this was the first victory lap of getting it rolling the first time...
[youtube]0BuLmfkW_I0[/youtube]

 

[Aquakitty]

That is hilarious and now I want one.

 

[amberwolf]

from the looks of it, that machine has at least one brake lever.... one more than i'm working with!!

It actually has three, the left "outer" one is just for hte brake light so I can engage that separately if I want to (eventually will be a part of the others), the left "inner" one is just for the on/off regen braking in the rear hubmotors, and the right one is for the Avid BB7 200mm disc on the front wheel.

The left inner one will "soon" be used to cable actuate an analog control for the proportional regen braking on the new controllers I just setup.

my front wheel has a drum brake but no cable to actuate it...

At least that's relatively easy to fix, directly with a lever on the bars or indirectly with cabling / pulleys as needed to the foot pedal.

the brake light LED's use 60v, switched through a cam actuated spring pulling a plunger switch. touchy, hard to tune in.

You can easily change that to put an NC reed switch on the brake lever mount and/or the foot switch mount, and a magnet on the lever/pedal, setup so that when the lever/pedal is moved just a little bit, the switch is no longer held open by the magnet, and the brake light comes on.

If the reed switch isn't meant for the voltage or current the lights need, then you can have it switch the coil of a relay.


the brakes are applied through the driver's foot, similar to a car, but the slop in the brake lever is atrocious. one threaded rod from the brake lever goes to a long brake shaft under the cabin, where two cams turn to transmit brake force through two other threaded rods to each rear wheel drum brake.

I think I'd just replace that with cables and pulleys. Easy enough to tune those for individual wheel/brake response.

if my controller doesn't have a regenerative braking function, is this all i can expect from my electronics?

It also depends on the motor itself. It's unlikely in something that size, but if it's not a direct drive (rather than something with freewheels or clutches in the drive path), there won't be any regen braking possible. For instance, if its' a hubmotor, it'd have to be a DD (direct drive) rather than geared; if it's a chain or belt drive it has to not have anything that prevents backdriving the motor.

If the motor *is* directly connected so it could spin either way and move the trike (likely), then if the controller has regen braking, *and* that is engaged by the high brake line, then it should both slow the trike *and* add significant drag if pushing the trike with them engaged (more drag the faster it's moving, usually).

Looking at the signal names in the wiring chart, there are three signals related to disabling the controller without powering it off. Two are the high and low level brakes, and the third is "neutral".

Given that it's a specific function listed there, neutral ought ot just disable the ocntroller from engaging the motor.

Thus, the brake lines should actually engage regen braking, if the system is capable of it .


TO test if the motor is direct drive or has a clutch/freewheel in the path, you can engage the reverse function. If you hear the motor working but the trike doens't move, it isn't directl drive, and that's why regen braking doesn't work.

 

[cincinnati.kid]

That is hilarious and now I want one.

600 dollars, plus 800 dollars to be shipped to the USA. then you're on your own! hope you brought some tools!

 

[cincinnati.kid]

Looking at the signal names in the wiring chart, there are three signals related to disabling the controller without powering it off. Two are the high and low level brakes, and the third is "neutral".

Given that it's a specific function listed there, neutral ought ot just disable the ocntroller from engaging the motor.

Thus, the brake lines should actually engage regen braking, if the system is capable of it .


TO test if the motor is direct drive or has a clutch/freewheel in the path, you can engage the reverse function. If you hear the motor working but the trike doens't move, it isn't directl drive, and that's why regen braking doesn't work.

good info to test with here, thank you!!
and good on ya with your own project.

the reverse function on mine works fine. theres a right hand thumb switch that switches between "idle/fwd/reverse". my chinese aunt translated it for me. idle is just a 'throttle disable' function, it seems. fwd/reverse are self explanatory. the curious part is that the third signal that you mentioned, aside from the hi and lo brake, "neutral", is in the tri-connector that attaches to that right thumb switch. i can see what kind of connections that switch is making between the wires once i get back to it with a meter.

the hi level brake doesnt seem to regen brake at all, i'll see what kind of action i can get out of the lo level brake. if i have the brake applied, and it's regen braking, it should feel like a parking brake is on if i try to push the tuk tuk by hand, right?

the motor directly drives an output shaft that goes to a differential and then to the wheels. no apparent gearbox or clutch or anything, but i definitely could be overlooking something.


also, in regards to cable making, do you have a particular source you use for raw components? i make custom length cables for motorcycle clutch/throttles, but i usually get a kit thats all you'd need for like $15. nothing heavy duty tho like for this kind of brake. if i'm gonna hand this vehicle back off to these ladies and say "ok it can stop", it's gonna have to be able to stop with a bride and groom and photographer and driver all piled into it. maybe it will never get to that point, and it just is a prop that happens to have an electric motor for moving itself from point A to B.

 

[amberwolf]

the reverse function on mine works fine.

If reverse works to bakc the trike up, then there's nothing else necessary to make ebraking work, mechanically. Just whatever the controller needs to enable or engage it (or a different controller).

Some controllers have pads inside on teh circuit board that enable regen when a wire is soldered from the pad to ground. What that is is different for different modesl and brands, but if you post clear closeup pics of the board (both sides) we might be able to find a pad that is safe to try doing that with.

if i have the brake applied, and it's regen braking, it should feel like a parking brake is on if i try to push the tuk tuk by hand, right?

Sort of--it depends on teh controller. but there will be resistance, the faster you try to push it the harder the resistance, with the basic version. Some ahve active braking that goes down to zero speed, and those will be harder to push while parked.

Some also have an antitheft that does actively power the wheel against movement while parked; usually you ground that signal to enable it. uses a bit of power all the time it's connected, and usually requires "ignition" to be left on as well (because that provides power to the controller brain). But this can't usually be used as a brake. I don't know what it would do if you tried to engage it at speed.

also, in regards to cable making, do you have a particular source you use for raw components? i make custom length cables for motorcycle clutch/throttles, but i usually get a kit thats all you'd need for like $15. nothing heavy duty tho like for this kind of brake.

I'm mostly using bicycle stuff for my brakes and whatnot (though I've got moped tires on the back). Haven't gotten to building the adapters and whatnot needed to use the hydraulic MC brakes and discs I have laying around for the rear wheels; it's a fair bit of work I have to figure out how to do.

But I expect you can use dirtbike drum brake cabling and levers. Amazon has a lot of stuff but I don't know if any of it is any good.

(Locally, at least as of several years ago, I haven't found any MC parts shops that are worth dealing with; the ones I've called wont' talk to me because I can't give htem a bike model and year when asking if they have a part (even if I have a part number); the ones I've visited see me arrive on one of my custom built bikes or trikes that arent' motorcycles, and just ignore me. Some literally wont' speak to me, some just roll their eyes, some say they can't sell me anything, etc. So it's been years since I went to any of the local places, and I never bothered to try anywhere else that might be able to ship to me, expecting the same kind of treatment. So I just browse internet web pages to see what can be ordered without contact with "people"; that seems to be easy enough if I know what I'm looking for).

maybe it will never get to that point, and it just is a prop that happens to have an electric motor for moving itself from point A to B.

Anything can be made to do it...but it could be more work / expense than it's worth to do.