Choosing between two Walmart bikes

[garfong]

Hello all,
I've been lurking here for awhile and am trying to decide on a bike frame. My local Walmart has the Genesis 26" Men's V2100 for about $160 but also has an all steel frame bike http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-NEXT-PX-6.0-Men-s-Bike/21009334#Item+Description for $100 that I haven't heard of anyone using yet. I realize the cheaper bike doesn't have as much space in the middle for mounting, but is supposed to be at steel frame. Which one would you choose?

I was planning on going with a 48v 1000w kit off ebay and probably 15 ah battery (probably from Ping).

 

[mikebikerad]

If you are trying to save money buy used.....you don't want to be one of these people? haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvxNgdFeWqM

 

[cal3thousand]

If you absolutely have to buy one of those bikes, get the Genesis. It has a reputation here for a decent e-bike frame. The Next bike will be more trouble in many ways including less room for batteries, probably cheaper components since it is cheaper, etc..

 

[neptronix]

There's a reason the NEXT steel bike is not popular.
It weighs as much as an eBike without the electric bits, from the factory, lol..

Absolute junk for components, 1" fork, and no triangle to store batteries in make it a bad choice.

The only upside really is that it's cheap, and you probably don't need a torque arm for it since the rear steel dropouts are so damn thick.

 

[cruiserbikeman]

I have a Schwinn Clairmont I purchased from Walmart. The frame is steel and I ride with a 60 volt battery. Had the bike for a year and it is holding up pretty well.

 

[wesnewell]

From all my research, you don't want aluminum dropouts period. They are soft. They are thicker than steel, but that still makes them a terrible choice for dropouts using a hub motor. You can find all sorts of stories of broken, reamed out aluminum dropouts if you look. Many a ruined motor (and bike). Stick with a bike that has steel dropouts at any cost unless you plan on using some steel torque plates. IMO, most torque arms only provide minimal protection unless you put steel on both sides of the dropouts. The extra weight is nothing compared to the extra weigh you will put on with the motor kit and battery pack.
Ok, I'm going to talk about Walmart bikes as that is all I have used with one exception that cost 4 times as much as the NEXT bike I use now. I've put motors on 3 of them and have not had a single failure in more than 10,000 miles combined. Considering I weigh ~270-275 lbs, I think that speaks for itself.
If you are under 250lbs, The NEXT avalon is a decent choice. Aluminum frame with steel swingarm and forks. This was the first bike I put a hub motor on. The way the rear suspension is set up allows a completely open triangle for your battery pack. I'd still be using it today if I didn't bottom out both front and rear suspension because of my weight. Because I was unable to find a bike with heavy duty suspension with an open triangle for the last 3,500 miles I've been using a non suspension steel NEXT bike that cost $59 mew from walmart. Shifters suck, as do the caliper brakes. Well pretty much all the components were real cheap, but it really doesn't matter. I replaced the brake pads, the seat the handlebars, and of course the rear wheel with the hub motor wheel. And also replaced the tires/tubes with CST Cyclops tires. So basically I'm just using the frame, gearing system, and front wheel. I kept the front wheel because it is steel too and much stronger than aluminum rims. So far it has been the best of all the ones I've used. BTW, I've never used a torque arm and have never had a problem in over 10,000 miles of hub motor use with steel dropouts.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

If you scour Craigslist day after day, you're bound to find a gem sooner or later.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I'd add two torque arms to the rear axle, but I think you'll be happier in the long run with the Genesis. Many reasons, but the front disc brake is one of the biggest, even with it being a cheap cable-pull disc brake.

 

[dogman dan]

If you are going that cheap, get the same bike (next, mongoose, etc) at any flea market or garage sale for $50. You will need to be a bike mechanic to tune a used bike back into rideable condition, but the same thing applies to a bike new from WM. They just bolt em up, leave half the bolts too loose, etc in the back of the store.

So no difference really. If you must, get the genesis. It's not much better a bike, but the 4 bar rear suspension makes that joke of a rear shock much much much much better. And you get an entry level disk brake up front that will be nice at times.

Doesn't the genesis have a steel rear swing arm? That's typically the case till bikes get above $200. Still, you need a torque arm or torque plate on the motor for sure for either steel or aluminum, unless you are going to use very low torque motors.

Any of those choices will wear out fairly quick, like 2000 miles. But it will buy you time to find a real bike on the local used market.

It's unlikely that the pingbattery will fit in the frame triangle of the next. If you are going to ride the street, you might end up going with a front motor so you can carry the battery on a rear rack. You might want to look again at hardtail bikes with a 1 1/8 front headset. Some will still have too small frame triangles, but some will fit the ping easily. It just depends on what you will be using the bike for, how rough the roads are, and is your back ruined yet.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Don't buy the NEXT. Total and unusable crap made of the worst possable parts in a design that has no value for anything except to look shiney under the christmas tree for a kid you know won't actualy ever ride it.

The Genesis is still bottom quality, but it's an acceptable bike with a proven record.

A far better alternitive in the cheap catagory is any Non suspension bike. Suspension equipment is expensive. A "real" bicycle rear shock with actual hydraulic dampening costs $300-$1000 alone, and anything less is a pogo spring with no dampening that will ride worse than a hard tail. And thats just the start of the diffrences. Installing 2" to 2.5" tires on a hardtail can greatly improve the ride.

And an even better alternitive is to buy a used craigslist or garage sale bike. You're going to be disposing of part of the bike during the conversion anyway, so there's no point buying new.

My recomendation Is a used Trek 820, or a bike like that.

 

[pdf]

Ditto earlier posters. In this price range, buy used. Either of these bikes is bad news. You will drive yourself nuts trying to keep the brakes, gears, wheels, etc. tuned. My opinion, worth what you paid.

EDIT: Since Wesnewell has gotten good use out of a NEXT, perhaps I was too quick to judge. I have seen some really poorly made NEXT bikes, but I haven't seen them all. I would not necessarily stay away from department store bikes but you do need to keep an eye on the quality of the components. I am not a "gotta have high end" person at all, but my son owned a NEXT once that was terrible and perhaps I haven't been paying attention lately. With any experience at all, you can get a good idea of how the components are going to hold up just by looking at the bike and riding it a short distance, using the gears and the brakes.

Personally, I still like to get bikes off Craigslist; there are so many that people got and rode a couple of times and put them in the garage, never to see the light of day again.

 

[wesnewell]

Doesn't the genesis have a steel rear swing arm? That's typically the case till bikes get above $200. Still, you need a torque arm or torque plate on the motor for sure for either steel or aluminum, unless you are going to use very low torque motors.

No, the Genesis has aluminum dropouts. That's what kept me from buying it.

Any of those choices will wear out fairly quick, like 2000 miles. But it will buy you time to find a real bike on the local used market.

Not really. At almost 4000 miles on my current bike and it's just as good as new. Running 100V 4Kw max using regen braking with no torque arms. I expect it would last years since there's no suspension to go bad.

 

[hydro-one]

spend the money and buy an 8" travel used dh rig and you will laugh about how u almost bought a POS, instead you are now happy for the rest of your life!!!!

 

[dogman dan]

I wore out a cheap mongoose in 2000 miles. When you put on the v brakes, the frame was flexing rather than the brakes going on. I'd wore out the frame. Shifters, etc were fine, it was the cheap frame that began to flex like a wet noodle. Cheap malleable steel.

Something in a hardtail would be your best choice most likely. Trek or specialized steel hardtail. Or other slightly better brand than next. My wife just brought home a very good condition specialized from the thrift store for $60.

In this case, the bike is not quite what I recomend because it still has cheap 1" headset, making replacement of the cheap forks with good ones a problem. Look for one with a threadless 1 1/8 headset. But it's still a good picture of what we mean. Steel frame, and big frame triangle for the battery. It's exactly like the one Wes recomends, except it's frame is much better than on the really really cheap bikes, like next, low end mongoose, and horrors, roadmaster.

This one, though it can't easily have it's fork upgraded, would be able to go many thousands of miles. I do tend to wear out wheels in 4000 miles still, but at least a good frame will last you.

 

[The fingers]

Good used bikes will always be the best value, shown by the examples and advice here. Check carefully for frame cracks, defective welds, abuse, corrosion. One of my mechanics just bought a real nice MTB used for very little money. Deals are out there now because of the bad economy, find someone that really doesn't want to sell their bike but needs cash right away. One seldom ridden, sitting in a garage somewhere needing a new home would be ideal. As with any exercise program, many people aren't willing to stick with it once they realize the dedication it takes. Watch out for stolen bikes though, you could have to part with it someday if it is.

 

[Drunkskunk]

My wife just brought home a very good condition specialized from the thrift store for $60.

You, Sir, Are a lucky man!

That would be a great bike to convert. Sure, 1" headsets are less than ideal, but hardly a deal breaker. I'd pick that bike over the Next even if the Next was free.

 

[Punx0r]

A "real" bicycle rear shock with actual hydraulic dampening costs $300-$1000 alone, and anything less is a pogo spring with no dampening that will ride worse than a hard tail.

Out of interest, what about air shocks?

I appreciate bicycle parts are lightweight and produced in relatively small quantities, but the prices seem excessive considering the equivalent on a car or motorcycle costs peanuts and does the same job.