i'm new here and with ebikes, so...

[Cpt.Cream]

i am new here so i figure that i will make an attempt to introduce myself. my name is brian and i'm an al.... err, wrong place......

i have been researching ebikes in a hands off way since about a year ago, just to figure out where i wanted to start. i originally intended to just convert my old columba 26 with a cheap ebike kit and go from there, but the fact that i had no experience at all with ebikes ultimately made me choose to just buy a "cheap" one to try out and i am loving it regardless of it's massive shortfalls; bluntly i find myself with a new hobby.

over the next year i intend to continue my research but it has gotten to a point where i cannot learn anything new without feedback. i am going to possibly be very annoying asking likely stupid questions that have been asked over and over. ultimately though when i say a new hobby, just like i can take apart a computer entirely, or a bike entirely, and understand what all of the parts (on a computer i am ALMOST at component level) can do, specs be damned, i intend to learn and understand here as best possible.

like many americans i get a chance once a year at a big purchase, one that i intend to save for on top of my income tax return, and one that like all that i have had before i intend to play with for years and even break a few times if not constantly because if my bike fails i'm only 20-30 minutes late to work (it will probably fail before i leave the house, and i always arrive at work early, my backup bike just takes more work and if it fails near home i would still be on time). and a fun useful hobby is worth it.

i'm 33 (34 next month) with a background as a pc repair technician and i used to build from the frame up lowrider bikes when i was a kid, and seriously don't ask where we got the frames, a local bike shop i like wouldn't be happy (i've spent lots of money there, and i feel kinda bad, but they were sitting outside and rusted for a decade, they called it the pit, and we bought the parts after frame restoration from that shop, i suspect they knew, we just never asked)

ok now for what i am hoping to do, i bought a cheap ebike on amazon, in all honesty i should have just done it on walmart's website as they carry the same product without the uncertainty of the seller; https://www.walmart.com/ip/X-Treme-Scooter-ELITE-X-Cursion-Electric-FOLDING-Mountain-Bike-eBIke/117552889?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=5781&adid=22222222227059357243&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=163194414955&wl4=aud-310687322322la-272373481915&wl5=9024249&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113932500&wl11=online&wl12=117552889&wl13=&veh=sem (holy crap thats a long link, btw the rack is incorrectly installed in the image, welcome to walmart)

i would upload a picture of my bike, but 512k would just be a giant blur on today's monitors. and even creating a login for this site was dubious for me, i've worked on and repaired computers since i was 15 and i only got a facebook account a year ago for now more obvious reasons, but it is pretty much anti-social now not to be on facebook. lets just say i didn't want facebook to see it: https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/30072783_391096124692149_1342284481880362067_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=40677fa3cd0f8da5a692dda2fe8a042f&oe=5B5B437C (unrelated; to fix the facebook problem we gotta build a haystack ai could help that)

my intentions with this bike are to rebuild it. i've already had it pretty much all the way apart, it is a custom frame with standard (cheap) bike parts and a normal cheap amazon style ebike kit thrown at it, the custom frame makes an ebike kit stick easy. and the welds on the frame, oh the welds on the frame, i've on over them close, my example is marvelous, master welder or machine. they didn't smooth the welds so while they are powder coated you can still see the beads, and they are nice, REALLY nice.

my hobby over the next year is to primarily figure out the best way to build a battery that will fit in the bike (can't use the original battery casing or internal connector, but a 10s2p 18650 battery would fit easy) and to choose what bike kit i should use to replace the one that came with my bike, i could do with just hub motor and controller really. in the meantime i intend (maybe bad idea?) to change the cheap kos disc brakes to a shimano hydraulic setup (supposedly factory modified with e-bike motor cutoff), and because of budget maybe some rigid alloy forks, i certainly can't afford 250+ for another set of forks, but i don't feel anything from these cheap xct suntours riding on streets and sidewalks, and at least with decent rigids i don't expect them to maybe fail after a minor accident.

the rebuild i plan and hope to be able to do on this bike is to upgrade from 24v 300w to 36v 500w. i am using it to commute, its about 3 miles each way, so i don't need much juice, but as stated this is going to be a new hobby for me, but i'm a 90% research guy. i'm sorry for how annoying i might become, and that is why i am prefacing and trying to introduce myself before i really get into any specifics, if i bug ya in a thread just tell me to go away, i'll respect it.

 

[LockH]

Hi B...

Welcome to our Addiction.

You mentioned as "American"? ie somewhere in the USA... Watt still leaves a lot of ambients re travels? Air temps and air winds... rural or urban... long list.

But anyway... for any two-wheeled conversion I might suggest starting w/a strong frame and then mod'ing, adding, etc after? In other words, not to try and "improve" a frame that was "cheap" to start with?

MY last stab at a conversion was actually an "old" "moped" made by Dutch bike firm Batavus... Was thinking of adding a hub motor (or two hehe) and stuffing the gas tank with lithium cells. With electric traction, makes sense to pedal from stops, up hills, etc to shave off peak power outs so ya get "better" ranges per charge and so the cells ("battery") last longer before eventual recycling and replacement.

Yah can expect other opinions from others here. :lol:

Have fun
L

 

[dogman dan]

Ok, step one is ditch that bike, the frame I mean, when you can. Carry your battery on a rear rack, or strapped to the handlebars, or whatever for the time being.

Then use your previous skills to build another lowrider, or at least a nice cruiser. Here is what I did to a hundred buck Schwinn cruiser. Welding required of course, but only a cheap ass wire feed welder.

Started as this.

And became this.

The main modification is 9" longer, nice but not required. What really mattered was welding on disc brake mounts. see the links below for the build details.

Later on, as you save cash on transportation costs, you can upgrade everything. This crusier can now run 48-72v with a very powerful motor. 2000w and 32 mph on 48v, and 40 mph on 72v.

 

[motomech]

The way I see it, it's usually difficult to "upgrade" a store bought ebike. It's like they don't want people messing w/ the system and, say, upping the Voltage may require replacing everything except the motor. And at that point, it's easier and less expensive to sell it and start w/ a "home built" bike. Especially if the plan is to upgrade the suspension and brk. as well.
I would suggest riding it as it is and buy a used mountain bike and start building the Ebike you really want.

 

[Cpt.Cream]

i am intending to for the best description "gut" the frame of the cheap ebike i got, i have welding experience and the frame is rock solid and specifically built for having a controller and battery INSIDE it, along with a folding mechanic. i linked images and resources to find out about it, but to make it more clear it is from x-treme scooters and is called the x-treme x-cursion. the parts that are bicycle on it are just cheap bicycle parts, just like how you can get it on walmart. the ebike parts are exactly the same as ebike kits i have seen and been researching on amazon, no bafang here, let alone bosch. (interesting thing, just roughly measured the rear dropouts and got 39mm, i think i can drop a bafang with a freehub in there, not sure of the pure number, but if it is less than 30mm i would be amazed). before next year i plan to work on some basic mechanical fixes, getting rid of some of the crap. the brakes according to the company are kos, and honestly after playing around with them for a while i actually got them better than they should be, and i have to bruised ribs to show for it, (and no they don't just lock up, i was dumb and used more force than i needed, they feel nice, but they never stop rubbing, and it isn't an unsteady rub, everything is true) so i am planning to get some of the shimano hydraulic brakes i see floating around with "factory modified" ebike motor cutoffs. this might be a cheap ebike, but at most i will be throwing either a cheap or next to cheap ebike kit at it next year, the expensive part will be building the battery which is what i am focused on at the moment. i understand that i need cells, nickel strips, lead wires (i went 14gauge) and a bma. i also included shrink tube to contain it (and a hot air soldering station just because i don't have one or a way to deal with a giant piece of shrink tube, and a hot air soldiering station deals with both for only 20 bucks more than a hot air gun, and i don't need the soldiering for this) . the parts to make it that i don't have are a sunkko spot welder (i have seen inside one, even if the one i get has some sort of fail, based on how it works i can ignore the ic components and rebuild the whole thing however i want if i need to, it is a starting point like the bike). hell the tools to build the battery are about twice as expensive as the parts that will be in the battery, but if i can get it going i intend to eventually build more than 10 batteries, even with digikey repairs of worn out parts i would be wasting my money not to look in this direction.

 

[Cpt.Cream]

The way I see it, it's usually difficult to "upgrade" a store bought ebike. It's like they don't want people messing w/ the system and, say, upping the Voltage may require replacing everything except the motor. And at that point, it's easier and less expensive to sell it and start w/ a "home built" bike. Especially if the plan is to upgrade the suspension and brk. as well.
I would suggest riding it as it is and buy a used mountain bike and start building the Ebike you really want.

i've had it apart, gonna have to share some pictures soon, but my bike literally has a cheap chinese bike kit on it with sticky business cards stuck on top of the parts. at least when it comes to the electronics. they are not only easily recognizable, but also easily dismissable. the worst issue i have in upgrading this bike is the battery. because the battery is inside the frame, and the cells in the back are glued in. i've finally decided to just ignore the battery pack and as i stated gut the frame. i can easily fit a 10s2p battery inside the area where the battery currently is, shouldn't be much trouble to fit a decent 36v 500w capable controller where the controller i have is, ridiculous amount of space available, and it even looks like i might be able to fit a bafang hub motor with a freewheel, which to me is most important because my small cog isn't small enough right now, and i don't wanna make my chaining much bigger. if i could use cassettes it would give me allot more options for gearing particularly considering i am stuck with 1x gearing unless i do some really stupid stuff. like putting a front derailleur on the rear triangle even though the crank is on the other side. well, not insanely stupid, just something i don't wanna do really.

 

[Cpt.Cream]

sorry dogman, but if i wanted to go with a cruiser i would have gone with a cruiser. i can fold my bike and fit in a trunk using the tools in that little bag under my seat to pop the stem off. if i wanted something that wouldn't fit in a trunk, i would have bought a moped. and considering that i like pedaling, that is something to say. functionality is... functionality. you really cant refine it.

EDIT: also in the bags i carry a couple bungie cords for smaller trunks. this bike has only been in a trunk once, i didn't need a bungie cord. i probably could have gotten away with just loosening the stem. do that with your beach cruiser.

 

[docw009]

Hydraulics brakes are overkill on that bike as are any future enhancements. Spend the hundred bucks toward building a second ebike. Learn how to make your own brake sensors on any future hydraulic brakes. All they do is glue sensors to the lever for those "mods" . You don't want to pay 50 bucks over/above the price of the lever to some guy to do that.

Learn about batteries. Maybe you can get recycled laptop batteries for cheap at work. Batteries are the most expensive part of an ebike and if you can fab a decent one yourself, you could do some nice looking custom ebikes with your welding skills.

PS. You repair computers but can't resize a JPG to 100Kbytes? You gots to have pics.

.

 

[Cpt.Cream]

Hydraulics brakes are overkill on that bike as are any future enhancements. Spend the hundred bucks toward building a second ebike. Learn how to make your own brake sensors on any future hydraulic brakes. All they do is glue sensors to the lever for those "mods" . You don't want to pay 50 bucks over/above the price of the lever to some guy to do that.

Learn about batteries. Maybe you can get recycled laptop batteries for cheap at work. Batteries are the most expensive part of an ebike and if you can fab a decent one yourself, you could do some nice looking custom ebikes with your welding skills.

PS. You repair computers but can't resize a JPG to 100Kbytes? You gots to have pics.

.

i can certainly make what i consider a blur at that size. 20 years ago i wouldn't consider it a blur, today it is less than a thumbnail to me. and i don't have "welding skills" but i certainly know how to weld both oxy acetylene and arc, both useless in this case. i know HOW to use tig and mig, i havent, just like i know HOW to build a battery, and haven't done that either. money is funny friend, thats why i am saving money right now and at about 120 bucks to fund just the battery adventure, i'm one of your classically poor who is relying on the influx of that tax return money to move on a project. this year i am working on the bike side with what i can save and come up with, you see how cheap those parts are, i wanna get some of them changed out. and the dude who said not to do anything with the frame is insane unless he is not thinking about the fact that i don't need to go more than 10 miles, anywhere. but i did give you a link to a better quality image of my bike than what i can upload already. i'll give it again now: https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/30072783_391096124692149_1342284481880362067_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=40677fa3cd0f8da5a692dda2fe8a042f&oe=5B5B437C
tell me if that link doesn't work, i have more options, that was just easy.

 

[LockH]

... also perhaps bare in mind that the world is now being flooded with ebike manufacturers w/volume productions as part of their "cost cutting approach" :wink: STILL think DIY converts are the "way to go"... but it's getting tougher to compete. :wink:

 

[wturber]

You mentioned as "American"? ie somewhere in the USA... Watt still leaves a lot of ambients re travels? Air temps and air winds... rural or urban... long list.

Ummm - isn't Canada an American country bein' as how it is sitiated in North America? So aren't Canadians 'Mericians too? It is a bit weird how we United Statesians seem to have co-opted the moniker "American." Just sayin' ...

Now back to our regularly scheduled meeting ..

 

[LockH]

^^ Hehe... Just that folks in Canada don't call themselves `Mericans, eh? :lol: USA folks are more like kissing cousins... depending on your politics. :wink: And the USA and Canada are both fairly spread out... Somebuddy "up here" from the Wet Coast might not understand speech from The Rock (Newfoundland), sorta like Boston folks maybe are misheard/misunderstood "way down south" (in the Land of Dixie)? :lol: Thank the Gawds we at least still share the Watts, watt? (EVen though our "miles" are all screwed up...)

Anywhooo... Help a guy out? Cpt.Cream has a question. :wink:

EDIT: Hehe... One Canadian kid once moved to England where they talk "proper" English and got kidded `bout talking "like a `Merican... but even England is all "mixed up" with London folks not talking like a Yorkie... :lol:

 

[Cpt.Cream]

wichita ks. btw this project of mine is going to take a long time before i even start work, so don't expect me making a daily appearance. was just trying to introduce before i start asking dumb or inane questions.

oh, and before people say again "convert a bike" i REALLY like the frame on this bike, so i am going to convert IT. got me?
by the way, nobody told me if they could see the image, here is the ridiculously small version that this forum demands:

 

[dogman dan]

If folding is important to you, they you got the right frame.

If it is a steel bike, you are at least going to be able to modify it to your hearts content, and it might be a lot less floppy from side to side than I think. I just had this gut feeling you were heading towards the 40 mph club, which would be quite a ride on that frame, again, IMO. That's why I showed you my cruiser, that is pretty comfy to 35 mph. Sorry if I sound harsh, but I'm one of the guys here that has done some miles, on the street, in the dirt, and even on the racetrack.


The more powerful controller won't fit in the frame most likely, but some can.

None of the electronic stuff on the bike will be very upgradable. Sure, you can up the voltage, increase the power of the controller, etc, just before you melt the motor. (melting motors is fun btw). But in the end, you will want at least a more powerful 1000w 48v rear direct drive motor kit and battery, to get an affordable yet fast and fun e bike. So like the others suggest, for now just ride it stock. Then later, with a higher voltage battery, go with the much stronger direct drive motor kit.

 

[Cpt.Cream]

If folding is important to you, they you got the right frame.

If it is a steel bike, you are at least going to be able to modify it to your hearts content, and it might be a lot less floppy from side to side than I think. I just had this gut feeling you were heading towards the 40 mph club, which would be quite a ride on that frame, again, IMO. That's why I showed you my cruiser, that is pretty comfy to 35 mph. Sorry if I sound harsh, but I'm one of the guys here that has done some miles, on the street, in the dirt, and even on the racetrack.


The more powerful controller won't fit in the frame most likely, but some can.

None of the electronic stuff on the bike will be very upgradable. Sure, you can up the voltage, increase the power of the controller, etc, just before you melt the motor. (melting motors is fun btw). But in the end, you will want at least a more powerful 1000w 48v rear direct drive motor kit and battery, to get an affordable yet fast and fun e bike. So like the others suggest, for now just ride it stock. Then later, with a higher voltage battery, go with the much stronger direct drive motor kit.

when i upgrade i intend to upgrade controller battery and motor, i'm not planning to overvolt, but like is said (somewhere, should be in this thread) i'm just gonna throw a more powerful cheap ebike kit at it, just like the people who made it. and nah, 30 is about where i'd be max, i'd just be happy to cruise at 25 instead of 20 with lazy pedaling. i like the folding because i can fit it in a large trunk without bungees, a smaller one with bungees, and it feels pretty solid as far as flex goes, but we will see over time, something might stretch. i'm only planning to go from 300w to 500w, nothing crazy, but as a hobby i do intend to build more than one bike, the parts coming out after this upgrade already have another bike to call home.

for my first upgrade i am going to try building a spare/extended range battery just to get some experience battery making, i think i'll be able to afford to start on that this year. i expect lots of problems, but that's part of the reason i wanna do it myself lmao. new skills and hands on knowledge go a long way.

just gonna go 7s2p, (current battery is 7s1p) i would go 7s3p but that would make for a kinda strange battery build(EDIT: facepalm here), because it needs to be 2 cells wide to fit. going to try out the sunkko welder on amazon, but i wouldn't be suprised if ultimately i just gotta build one myself, although starting with the sunkko i can still use it even if it doesn't work the way i want.