Coast to Coast E-Bike Ride ... what are the logistics?

[LI-ghtcycle]

Like Justin did, you would be needing some big capacity, to get the range to a practial distance. There are places here in the southwest, where you might have to get 70-80 miles range to reach the next plug that you can use. It might be better in the northwest, but here even ranch houses can be 50 miles apart. Up in Canada where Justin did his ride, I hear plugs are everywhere since a car can't be left out overnight without plugging into a heater in January.

My long distance setup would likely work. 20 mph motor for efficiency, about 70-80 miles of range in pingbatteries, and 5 amp chargers, all on a decent but low end DH mountainbike. The suspension will help with less bent wheels and less road fatigue when riding on some crappy pavement out in the sticks. For a really long tour, I figure a bob trailer would be good thing to add, or maybe front panniers.

If you are up to more than 70 miles a day, about 2 hours of charging at lunch would get you another 40 miles or so of range. So about 5 -6 hours of saddle time, and two more of waiting to charge would get you 100 miles in less than an 8 hour day. If you are strong, and once in better shape later in the ride, 150 miles a day should be possible. With the same battery and charger setup, you could still have close to 100 mile range at faster speeds with a faster motor. About 45-50 miles in the morning, in about 2 hours riding, then 3-4 hours charging, and another 2 hours of 25 mph riding. Again, 100 miles in about 8 hours.

All very good info to mull over, thanks!!

I'm not yet convinced that I NEED suspension, especially since companies like Surly sell touring bikes that are rigid and they still have a bang-up business going, but I might try something like a Thud-Buster seat-post, I'm just wanting as little as possible of my pedal power going into suspension or frame flex.

Maybe it's just that I am still young enough (read inexperienced ) to BELIEVE I can get away with-out suspension. I will tell you that I have a stubborn streak, and tend to get satisfaction doing things that many might say "can't or shouldn't be done"

Only time will tell.

The one single thing that is the lynch-pin of this whole possible undertaking is my health, if it doesn't hold, then I will be buying a buss ticket and shipping my bike back home.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

The farthest I have went in a day is 82 miles. I had 4 battery packs 36v 12ah in a trailer hitch. It took me around a little less than 5 hours. My hands hurt like hell from the vibrations.

I thought of going cross country. If I was able to do 100 miles a day it would take me 30 days to do from NYC to San Fran.

I cant just leave my work and family for a month to do it. I just dont think its practical.

Yep, I am in a unique situation in that I don't have the normal constraints on time, just my physical ability, and hopefully even if I start to have problems, I will be able to continue as long as I don't get the worst of them (the most debilitating is when I really can't think straight with my head in a fog and have "motion sickness" that keeps me from getting out of bed at times) if it's just fatigue, then I can manage it.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Personally I would opt for a non hub but limit the power so you don't have controller issues, the problem I see with the hub is if you lose the motor, you basically are stuck, as its like hauling a tank around with the motor not helping, I would suggest a geared hub with a freewheel, but that would likely fail with that many miles... I am thinking a smaller R/C setup running through the gears in the rear so you can get easy replacement parts, carry a spare motor (with halls), controller, battery and chain and call it good. I think that would be the most reliable way because if something fails, you just either replace it and move on, or if you run out of parts, you still have a nice light bike that pedals easily to get you to the next stop where you can order up a new whatever, I figure anybody can ride 100 miles if they had to without a motor.. Plus you have the efficiency of the R/C motor to get you farther!

Sounds like fun, wish I could afford to do it! Oh, and bring a pistol, you never know what the hell you might run into out there! Could help with dinner in the middle of nowhere too! LOL!

Yeah, you know we really need either a federal carry permit, or at least something that allows you to hunt on federal land with-out getting a license in every state you pass, oh well, one can dream!

As far as being out in the woods, I'd be much safer there than most major cities in the US! I have been known to carry Bear Pepper Spray (the extremely powerful foaming type that shoots 20 feet and is the size of a small fire extinguisher) and that would work fine for most "two legged varmints" too!

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

If you're going to put 1800 miles on a kepler drive setup, bring an extra tire or two for one. I don't care how well the friction drive is setup, it's gonna eat tires!!! who knows how much?
Wind resistance will be your enemy, thus slower is better.

And if i were you, i'd start out on a smaller trip. IE Oregon city to Seattle or something.

Yeah, I will most definitely have to do some testing, and if I can get good mileage out of cheap tires (there are plenty of cheap $15 tires out there that might fit the bill, changing tires isn't any big deal) I will use those, if not I will find the best price on something reasonably priced that will have more longevity. I just don't want to wear test on a $50+ tire first.

*** EDIT ****

Forgot to mention the aero drag issue, IIRC, the real problem is at 30+? I would be making a very simple fairing of sorts that will cover the front of the bike (based on a motorcycle or scooter design that I will emulate) and the pedals. I will have to decide if I will have a trailer or not (most likely I will) and it will have to be as aero as possible too, but I will make a concerted effort to pack light.

I will definitely try a shorter trip as a trial-run, and maybe I don't make it to Montana this year, that's fine. That is part of the main reason I am exploring all these options.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

A bike trailer, and a generator that can charge your batteries and supply enough juice to run your rig at the same time. This way you can run until you don't have batteries then use the generator to power the motor while you wait for the batteries to be charged. Once they are charged, repeat all over again. Probably a REALLLLLY comfy seat too.

Not a bad idea, I might consider this if my basic idea of keeping as light and efficient as possible doesn't pan out, but I'd really like to avoid building a bicycle "prius" since they seem to do two things well rather than one thing excellent. Also, I will be using the latest tech for the LiPo chemistry (LiCo Nano) which is looking to be more stable and long living. (I will be using the batteries way under their rated C rate)

I've often thought about trying a "Thud Buster" or similar saddle, but since I pedal as much as anything, I don't want anything TOO cushy since they become much more uncomfortable on longer rides. If I had the money, I would be building a semi-recumbent for this trip, but part of the benefit of using a more common bike is showing how it can be done by the average joe.

 

[mwkeefer]

I'm getting the Kepler Friction drive for testing too

I scanned your response - but now I see you are a disabled vet? I am far too familar with the darn VA and I feel for you brother, my uncle was 101st airborn out of bragg in 67 (I think) - Robert Keefer - Warrant Officer and Chopper Pilot.

George - you shoudl feel damn silly now - a war vet, injured protecting our homeland and the ability for all of us to work.

{I'm sure, an I'm sorry - I was wrong given your situation would go a long way to bedding this issue with no harmed feelings}

Light you are running a geared hub motor right? The bafangish? Good efficiency stock but with the right controller and settings you coudl see upwards of 2.4mi per AH average at 25A (sufficient to climb hills properly).

Where would you begin your journey and what path to your final destination... this cuold be inspiring for those with disabilities to encourage them to go out and enjoy life using whatever they must to derive the most happieness.

If you are on the east coast - I have 3 locations (one will be on your route) in Philadelphia region, 2 in NY (NYC and the Bronx with good friends who are not techie - more hippie but they respect things like this endeavour - also avid cyclists (forget converting him, his cannondale is like 9 lbs and he is stubborn) - I have also associates, fellow enthusiasts and even a nice database of known charging locations and if the management is cool or if you would need to sneak a charge somehow...

Since your $$$ is meager - you could use a bike tent (saw on topeak or amazon) to rest when needed (I have one for when the weather is getting bad and I need to stop for a while)...

Depending on your on hand quantity of batteries (unknown) and the likely range of such an ebike even at 20mph average - I think maybe its time to look at a left side direct drive or parallel right side drive with dual freewheels powering an SA3 internal hub - this will allow you to stay in the optimal efficiency range.

I don't know any motor besides an astro which can manage 53A while maintaining 90% efficiency.

Well, give a tad more info on the above questions and lets see what we can do to help you plan this trek!

Oh yea - how do you feel about Amrak and rail for portions (more to catch a charge and rest)? Here is where a folding bike works great - even full size since they are accepted as carry ons if folding.

-Mike

 

[georgefromvt]

I save my empathy for those truly disabled. If you can walk, talk and are cognitively intact, you can work. Everyday I see patients who are missing legs, arms, or whose bodies are ravaged by age or disease, I save my empathy for them. As I said if you could ride a bike and plan a cross-country trip, you can work. Unfortunately our system encourages a "Victim" attitude and Rehab is often thwarted when there is an economic reason not to get better. Of course, it is not helped by a legal system that has eroded personal responsibility. If you are caught with a DUI it is not your fault, it is the bar served you. Those who scam the system really hurt the true disabled. Yes, I may sound hard but when you work with the truly injured and disabled, you have little sympathy for those who abuse the system. Recently I had a young women with mental health issues tell me "we are actually all Victims". What nonsense!

 

[dogman dan]

Yes there are those with worse disability. We know that. Likely they get more than $250 a month. Sheesh.

Sure, you can work partly disabled. I've been doing it for 15 years. It took me 5 years of recovery from my blown out back to get to where I could work the job I have now. Luckily, my skills are valuable enough to be allowed to work a 6 hour day one day, and a 2 hour day the next, and so on. But those first 5 years I had to self employ myself, and made about 2 bucks an hour when minimum wage was 4 bucks. For the first year I could work 15 min, and then I needed a 30 min break. Not being a vet, I had little choice about working or not. It was my choice to quit before I got 100% disabled and able to qualify for social security disability. It was a smart move, but a desperate decision. Filing for workmans comp on a back injury would have gotten me nothing, except for getting on that secret blacklist. Smallish town. At the time, I thought I'd heal and then get back to framing houses.


Back on topic. The keppler drive sounds like a great option for crosscountry. A hub motor can do it without overheating by going at 400 watts, but then you don't have the option of unhooking it for a long shallow downhill. I bet you won't need to carry a generator. I bet there are plugs a lot more frequent up north than down here in the desert. Towns here are spaced on the distance a steam engine train could go between water stops, 70 miles.

 

[icecube57]

I like Justins approach. Yes he had real buddy stops and stuff to help him along his way such as food and extra parts but just roughing it is cool. Just like papa was a rolling stone. Where ever he laid his hat was his home. I would ride exclusively in the late night cause its cooler and less traffic. Late enough so that when your packs are depleted dawn is just arriving and you have light to fing a spot to setup camp. Also planning routes around city and national parks is a good idea. They should have places to plug in and maybe a campsite. If there was a nice way to make the meanwells more rugged I wouldnt mind carrying a light battery battery. In combination with two meanwells bulk charging to 90-95% at about 900-950w. You can make out like a bandit before anyone knew what was going down. A 1hr pit stop for charging is very reasonable. Even a 2hr stop. I personally would carry a 1- 1.5kwh pack and lipo. You would get at a bare minimum 60-80 miles. If you did a pitstop you could double that. Cruise control can be very efficient if you pedal along and not as tiring as you may think. Granola is you friend. Water is too. And you will go through that quickly so cargo is a huge concern. I would say tow a kiddie trailer for all your hauling and keep your weight off the bike itself. Keep the speed down to 20-25mph for hypermiling purposes. Those speed selection switches are very useful when programmed correctly. It can reduce your wh consumption drastically along with cruise control. Plan you route along urban areas. It may take you out of your way but civilization is your safety net if anything goes down. You would be surprised how many people are willing to help you if you take the time and and briefly explain. They see you are on a bike with alot of cargo and keep it simple and say you are on a cross country trip on an electric bike. Mind if I plug in or crash for a few hrs? I would maybe call ahead to certain chain store like Wally World and speak with store managers. Maybe they can arrange quarters even if it was a storage closet. Explain what you are doing. What time you should be expected. Never know they may even give you provisions. it may help if you have a blog to lend further credibility to your trip. Planning trips around places with wifi can be a good idea. Krystals, Libraries, Mc donalads. Hospitals, and schools are a few examples of places that have free wifi.

 

[Whiplash]

Agreed, I think if you take great care in planning the trip keeping on highways that will put you through smallish towns frequently rather than large cities, I think you would have a better chance of finding available plugs along the way like this. I personally really would love to try this, and truthfully what a great way to promote my business! Too bad there is no way I could afford to do it as I need to work EVERY day just to get by. I wish you the best of luck! Oh and if you do this, MAKE SURE you document it VERY well. Carry a quality cell phone and upload video all along the way to YouTube, I think you could get quite the following! Also the disability thing truly could help you get some sponsorship for the event but be sure you are going to complete it or that IS scamming. I think it would be great fun to check you YouTube page throughout the day to see where you are!

Good Luck!
-Bryan

 

[jag]

LI-ghtcycle,

Your plan of going light is what I would do also. Filter the advice you read and hear carefully. If you simply brought everything people suggest you'll soon fill an RV!

I bike toured where I grew up in Europe when I was a teenager because it was cheap. Just rode a regular sport bike with a rack and panniers, tent and sleeping bag. Staple foods like fruits and veggies are everywhere and cheap (bananas 50c/lbs take you many km per $$ spent!). When I could afford it I would look for an inexpensive "all you can eat" buffet every few days to get some warm cooked food.

In those days it was possible to put a tent just about everywhere without getting hassled (well not in people's back yards, but on any land where nobody would be directly disturbed). Not sure how easy that is nowdays in America. Like you noticed, there is luckily plenty of public land where informal camping is allowed.

Your backup plan of taking the bus in an emergency is also good. If your goal is more the trip than the final destination I wouldn't worry so much about buying a spare motor, controller, wheels etc. Just ride as long as your setup works and you enjoy it. Then take the bus, train or hitch back. When you are ready again, take another trip.
I had sewn a bag to fit my bike frame from some old curtains. This worked well on trains and busses. In the bag it is a luggage, not a bike. Took me about 2min to remove rack, fenders, wheels, panniers from the bike and pack the bike gear tight in the bag, and carry my belongings in the panniers (the panniers clipped together into one bag and had a carry handle)

I'd be curious to hear how the kepler-type drive works out. IMHO it seems like a perfect choice for lightweight touring. On the flats it is easy to maintain 15mph/25km/h on pedal power alone, but the motor can take the drudgery out of going up hills. Used this way even a small battery goes a long way. By comparison, using electric power all the time you might need 300-500W to maintain 20mph and close to 1000W to maintain 30mph. At 1000W load you need one 48v20Ah ping battery per hour traveled. At $600+ freight per battery it is way too much $$ (and at 10kg way to much weight to carry more than one). Like you suggest, it would be much better to make do with just a few kg of LiPo.

Bt.w. I used an Eureka Solitaire tent. Very small and lightweight (2lbs). $95 new but can be had for much less used or on sale. There are other lightweight tents as well, but they tend to be more expensive. There are good 2lbs sleeping bags as well.

http://www.eurekatentscanada.com/products/view/2

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Wonderful! I am very encouraged with all the good advice here, and I will take it all in and make my decisions, and I agree with your basic idea Jag, I understand the idea of having supplies and spare parts, but that would defeat the purpose.

To answer a question, I am not going to be using a hub motor, or LiFeP04 batteries, but a Kepler Drive and the new advanced LiPo chemistry, Lithium Cobalt also known as LiCo, that is now being sold by HK and is the "nano tech" battery of the LiPo persuasion, maybe that is why some seem to be confused into thinking that I am going to be using LiFeP04 chemistry batteries like Pings.

I will be using either small panniers or a small trailer, and I will be trying to make things as light and aero as possible, and I plan on having contingency plans to "rough it" but my main support hopefully will be from great folks like I find here and here is a site that is supposed to embrace bicyclists going on long touring trips:

http://bicycletouringpro.com/blog/warm-showers-and-free-accomodations-for-traveling-cyclists/

I will look into those really light tents, but to be honest, I'm more interested in utility and durability than light weight, maybe I am wrong, but a thin plastic tent that weighs 2 lbs doesn't sound very durable, and the "bike tent" sounds really ingenious, I will check both of those.

And to George, all I can say is when you have the answer to my "part time" disability being paid only "when I need it" then I will take a moment to feel bad about getting some help for my problems. :wink:

I'd have to be a REALLY stupid scammer to settle for just $243 a month, not to mention I have 20% disability not because that is the most I could get, but because it's the most you can get and still qualify for many federal jobs.

If you want to "blow the whistle" on me again, man up and PM me. I will happily give you any and all information you deem necessary to turn me in.

Guess that site you posted on reporting fraud to the Social Security Administration will do a lot of good considering I don't accept any disability from SSI. But please, keep up your shtick about I need to be missing an arm to deserve any assistance from the government and YOUR hard earned taxes, since after all you have all the answers, just fill us all in and start with telling me why I REALLY have the symptoms of many 100,000's that have spent time in the Persian Gulf and then you can tell us all to "get a job" :lol: :lol: :lol:

You really give me a chuckle every time you say something so absurd and go on about an anecdotal story about what some "mentally challenged" person said. Still paying attention to all those fingers pointing back at ya? Keep up the good work!

I guess that during my good months attempting to start a business and support myself (you know it's hard trying to decide, $243 a month on disability, or thousands selling E-Bikes ... hmm what to do ... :lol: :lol: ) and selling my prized car that I spent 7 years building, and building electric bikes is "scamming" you all out of hard earned tax money, so anyone who is so inclined is welcomed to PM me for all the info they need.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Agreed, I think if you take great care in planning the trip keeping on highways that will put you through smallish towns frequently rather than large cities, I think you would have a better chance of finding available plugs along the way like this. I personally really would love to try this, and truthfully what a great way to promote my business! Too bad there is no way I could afford to do it as I need to work EVERY day just to get by. I wish you the best of luck! Oh and if you do this, MAKE SURE you document it VERY well. Carry a quality cell phone and upload video all along the way to YouTube, I think you could get quite the following! Also the disability thing truly could help you get some sponsorship for the event but be sure you are going to complete it or that IS scamming. I think it would be great fun to check you YouTube page throughout the day to see where you are!

Good Luck!
-Bryan

I don't think you have too much to worry, if I don't go on the trip, and don't stay at someone's house, I won't be scamming anyone out of anything. :wink:

I'm only going to make it known to people what I plan to do, and if they choose to support me, great if not, fine too. I don't plan on spamming anyone's email with paypal requests or anything, no "give a dollar for my trek" kind of stuff you can be assured.

I don't know how much of a blog I will be writing or up-loading video, (I'm not sure how people get all the time they spend blogging and such and still do things too! :lol: ) I'd LOVE to do all that, but my budget is going to be pared down to the max, hopefully I can get a news crew or two interested in doing a story just by my doing the trip, I really lack any idea of HOW to promote myself in that way, and I really am not interested in that sort of thing really. I DO however believe in the revolution that is E-Biking, and want to promote that wholeheartedly! Nothing has captured my real vision of what an E-Bike should be better thus far than the Kepler Drive, and I will be going on a few preliminary trips with one to get an idea of it's and my capabilities.

I appreciate your kind words and support, I have to say that I would love to get a good plan on a decent smart-phone with a camera, but I think that might take too much of my budget, I agree however with you, it would be VERY kewl.

Someone has already graciously offered to help me plan this trip's logistics, and I am very thankful. I am not a person to champion social causes or go on marches, but I have found something I AM passionate about, and it seems I am in a unique position to promote this, and at the same time hopefully secure a living doing what I enjoy and want to share with others.

 

[JennyB]

For some inspiration, here's the blog of Kent Peterson, who taught me most of what I know about riding long distances cheaply and in relative comfort.

You've got to respect the advice of a guy who has ridden from Canada to Mexico.
Several times. OffRoad. Along the Great Divide. On a single-speed. 8)

 

[grindz145]

Checkout my 5kw-h 'sport tourer' that allows me 200-250miles per charge at 28mph. I would definitely do a cross country tour with it if I had the time. There is something to be said for not going 75mph all day long.

Interesting, I'm guessing it involves some form of non-hub geared motor or R/C motor?

Nope just a hub motor and LOTS of batteries. I think you may have missed that i said NOT going 75mph...

 

[dogman dan]

You said it dude!

With charging opportunities less far apart, lipo would work fine. I just had one ping already, and for me, buying a second was an easy way to double my range. But I do end up lugging 30 lbs of battery when I want to ride 60-70 miles in one charge. Good lipo should be able to charge fast. I just went the carry enough to last all day approach. Wish I could afford to quit my job and ride crosscountry! What little vacation time I get is permanently allocated to the big ballooning party every october.

 

[richmpdx]

Jenny, the Kent Peterson site is great, thanks for the link. It is indeed an inspiration.

Rich

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Very good stuff! I will have to wait until next week to have time to properly read it, but what little I have had time to read has looked very useful!

I particularly like the idea of the Kelly Kettle sounds particularly useful! Anyone have a used one for sale?

 

[gaddman]

Hi LI,
My brother and his new wife spent their honeymoon cycling around the world for a year. Not electric, but their blog and loads of others are on crazyguyonabike.com and have heaps of general touring advice, as well as blogs from people who have probably done a similar trip. My bro used a Surly Long Haul Trucker with a Brooks saddle, although I gather the saddle has a fairly lengthy breakin period.
They also scored a few nights meeting new friends and getting a free bed, through warmshowers.

How far do you think you'll cover in a day? My non-electric cycling mates do ~100km daily on tours, but based on my own riding I think the extra weight of the electrics means I'd be limited by the battery capacity first (in other words, having a motor won't get me any further - since once the battery runs out I'd rapidly run out of energy to keep peddling).

Good luck anyway!

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Well, one thing I have learned over this last week, hauling a 100lb trailer sucks! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Worse than hauling it, while getting stuff out of the trailer you're likely to knock over the bike!!

I'm pretty sure that the reason my Nishiki's derailleur busted in half was because the trailer being accessed, subsequent accidental knock-overs cause it to fatigue and eventually break.

It was a really nice old-school Shimmano Lightaction too!

So I will stick to what I can keep in panniers and a small very light back-pack with camel back

I volunteered to be a councilor for the local "Bike Camp" just started this year by a good friend of mine to teach local kids how to bike safely and responsibly and I was the rolling bike shop, man I will NEVER put electrics on some of the cheap bikes out there ... I had to re-adjust brakes THREE TIMES in one day on one little girl's Pacific bike, and the shifters weren't much better.

Some of these dept. store bikes really aren't safe to ride period ... sorry back OT... :wink:

Something about my set-up that I really will consider something I cannot compromise is weight.

If I am to take advantage of average people offering me a place to sleep at night on the "warm showers" site, I want to have a bike that can easily enough be hauled up to a third floor apartment.

The bike's weight must not exceed 40lbs electrified, and my goal on gear is less than 50lbs cargo. I have built hub motors much lighter than this (68 lbs is my lightest build so far, but I will lower that another 12lbs with LiPo), so I know it's not only possible, but not too terribly difficult.

I will start with using a CA to keep things simple, and a servo tester for the device that allows a standard E-Bike throttle to talk to the ESC (both easily obtainable at local hobby shops). Things like spare throttles I will carry with me.

Here is the new Muddy Fox I bought last night to possibly use in the trip, it's a really nice bike, 25lbs, rides like a road bike but has a less aggressive riding position:

http://www.muddyfoxusa.com/products.php

I'm concerned however, I'm not sure I will be able to get the touring sized tires for the nasty weather to fit in it's frame I'd really like to run these:

http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/2666

 

[Whiplash]

Cool, glad to see you are making progress!

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks! 8)

I just cleaned John out, bought the last 3 Kepler Drives from this first production run!

I just wish I had thought to sell my car sooner! :lol:

Anyone have any experience using one of these tires? I am mostly concerned about grip on ice, not wear with this tread:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=24615

I plan on using some dual duty clip-less on one side, and comfy platform on the other side pedals. Also I will try and see about getting some clip-less compatible biking shoes, but I'd really like them to be similar to my Danner boots that are just like high-top sneakers with a little more tread. I don't want anything like the current bike shoes I have now:

 

[jag]

Well, one thing I have learned over this last week, hauling a 100lb trailer sucks! :lol: :lol: :lol:
So I will stick to what I can keep in panniers and a small very light back-pack with camel back

The bike's weight must not exceed 40lbs electrified, and my goal on gear is less than 50lbs cargo.

Nowdays I cringe at even 40lbs "cargo", but my kid isn't getting any lighter. However, My full camping outfit is less than 20lbs (sleeping bag, pad, tent, stove, pots, water filter, bottles, clothes and raingear), with tent and cooking gear sized for a family of 3. Getting lightweight and functional gear takes more persistence than money. Sometimes one has to splurge, but any of the truly functional "gems" are not all that expensive.

If I was going alone I would skip cooking. If you plan to cook, I would go for a gas stove. I wouldn't bother with a "burn free pine cones" stove... A quart of gas will last you several days. I've tried at least a dozen stoves, and the 250g MSR Whisperlite is by far the best. Can easly be bought used. Good aluminum 2qt post should be about 200g each, so a set of 2 pots and 1 pan is 600g. GSI and MSR makes good ones. I use an MSR blacklite cookset.

Good, light sleeping bags are expensive, while for pads it's the opposite: the cheap foal pads are the lightest. Feathered friends and western mountaineering make the best down bags. Next best and cheaper would be to get REI or MEC branded down or synthetic bags.

Here is the new Muddy Fox I bought last night to possibly use in the trip, it's a really nice bike, 25lbs, rides like a road bike but has a less aggressive riding position:

I'm concerned however, I'm not sure I will be able to get the touring sized tires for the nasty weather to fit in it's frame

For long distance low rolling resistance is essential. To have low rolling resistance a tire has to either have a continuous centre ridge, and pattern only on the sides, or be ribbed with narrow groves. Knobbies are out. I biked year around in Sweden from age 10 to 25 on just regular moderately ribbed bike tires.

In terms of touring bikes there has been essentially no development since the mid 80's, so old bikes are as good as new bikes. Miyata and Specialized bikes of that era are what touring bikers look for. However for electrification a Cannondale aluminum frame might be a good choice also. Cannondale made numerous models, but the touring frame was the same well engineered 3lbs 6000alloy.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

WOW! Your really getting my hopes up!! 20lbs of cargo for a family of 3!?!

I'm also glad to see your take on the stove, the kelly kettle is a really neat idea, but it's also VERY bulky.

How many days camping for the family is that gear load good for?

I'm going to make aero shaped paniers out of ABS (pickle barrel) because I don't want to spend huge amounts of money on fancy paniers that really aren't what I'm looking for, and I do plan on having something of a mini-fairing and windscreen on this bike.

My ultimate goal is to have a bike in full touring dress that I can still carry relatively easily up a flight of stairs when needed.

For long distance low rolling resistance is essential. To have low rolling resistance a tire has to either have a continuous centre ridge, and pattern only on the sides, or be ribbed with narrow groves. Knobbies are out. I biked year around in Sweden from age 10 to 25 on just regular moderately ribbed bike tires.

So you're saying I can ride through Icy roads on a mountain pass with moderately ribbed tires? I would only be using the aggressive tires just before entering nasty winter weather which Montana is famous for, and I will be having to traverse 3 passes, the scary parts will be staying in control going DOWN the hills, not so much up.

I would ONLY use the winter tires in winter conditions and then switch back to road slicks.

Here is the tire that looks to be the best for the winter I have seen so far:

http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/conticycle/ti topcontact.shtml

I wouldn't be using just the standard Top Contact tire, but the winter version. For the rest of the time I will look for things that work like the Panracer Pacela, something that is a slick but has enough tread to have plenty of grip in rain for the better stuff.

 

[JennyB]

WOW! Your really getting my hopes up!! 20lbs of cargo for a family of 3!?!

I think he means 20lbs for his share of the cargo, which included tent and cooking kit that would be more than were required for one. :lol:

That's still impressive, but here's how to get solo long distance loads REALLY low. :wink:

BTW, Jag, i second what you said about Cannondale tourers. Until recently I rode one dating from the 1980's. Lovely bike!