Combined electric bike and wind turbine.

[Trevor Loughlin]

I have a powabyke and live near the South coast (U.K) and have had the idea of using an expandable umbrella-like wind turbine bolted to the frame of my bike to recharge the batteries. Perhaps the bike could use a drive train connected to the hub motor and diodes to recharge its batteries when stationary (plenty of wind on cliffs) and then I could take it all the way to Lands End without mains power! Or perhaps I should build a bike that transforms its frame/wheels and motor into a dedicated wind turbine! Is this a practical idea or will I waste my money trying?
Another idea is an expandable mylar film solar concentrator onto photovolataic cells, or a bike that transforms into a wave power generator!

 

[knightmb]

Now, that is very a interesting idea. I'm just afraid the amount of equipment needed to do this would make it a very heavy e-bike.

 

[Trevor Loughlin]

It could be made of titanium tubes stressed with internal carbon or boron fibre braces, but if it reused all its structure and motors in a different configuration the only additional weight would be the sail material, which could be thin plastic,nylon or silk perhaps strengthened with steel wire.
A bike that transformed into a tent would be a good idea as well!

 

[dirty_d]

i think the drag created by the turnbine would take more power to move the bike than it would provide.

 

[Lock]

It could be made of titanium tubes stressed with internal carbon or boron fibre braces, but if it reused all its structure and motors in a different configuration the only additional weight would be the sail material, which could be thin plastic,nylon or silk perhaps strengthened with steel wire.
A bike that transformed into a tent would be a good idea as well!

Hi Trevor...
You used the S word - sail... A vertical air foil or a kite would serve (more efficiently) to harvest wind energy under way... as a power-assist to your power-assist... a tribrid.

If you have access to moving water as waves or stream, water has about 800 times the density of air, so moving at the same speed there is potentially a lot more energy to harvest from the water...

There are different ideas for turbines in streams:
http://www.rosneath.com.au/ipc6/ch08/shannon/

... but if you are on the Channel then wave action might be constant? Or at least, the wakes from all that marine traffic <wink>

Tidal races, see turbines/wheels above... but wave action, the one I like drops a pipe 1/2 in the water, and the column of water in the pipe rises/falls w/each wave. The air column in the pipe above water level then "breathes" too, as it is forced up/down, and this breathing spins a turbine...
keeps the electrics/turbine out of direct (saltwater) immersion.

Big scale example here:
http://www.irishscientist.ie/p186a.htm

All air props suffer from more "slip" than in water, so again, if you have moving water around, consider that first!

What sort of generation system you need depends on your energy needs (how much and how often) verses what is available from the ambient, and how efficiently you can generate and store same...

It takes quite a bit of energy for traction/transport... Food energy, electrical, whatever...

Don't overlook regen either, if you are up/down or stop/go. The one runs on free energy (gravity), the other recaptures what is otherwise wasted.

G'Luck

Lock
from the colonies

 

[xyster]

i think the drag created by the turnbine would take more power to move the bike than it would provide.

I was thinking the same thing. However, if he rides to where it's windy, then exposes the turbines and hangs out for hours while the batteries recharge, then it might make sense.

 

[Geebee]

You would need to brace the stationary bike well in a strong wind otherwise it would fallover or go walk about.
It would have to be somewhere that a person could not walk into the blades aswell.
You would be better of with a flexible solar array to deploy plus you can probaly at least deploy it partially whilst riding ie. over your rear rack.
There is some info around about a 2 wheeled recumbent with a full fairing that is covered in solar cells and the returned energy is not insignificant.

 

[TylerDurden]

I like the notion of using wave energy. (The wind turbine would need anchoring, the solar reflectors would need cooling for the PV module.)

Wave could employ an inflatable float that is mechanically connected to the generator. The bobbing of the float could exert great force if the float were even moderately sized.

Getting the reciprocal motion of the float into rotational motion might be a bit lossy, but there is plenty of wave energy to supply your generation.

 

[fechter]

If you parked the bike upside down and had fabric 'blades' in the spokes of the wheels that fold flat when riding, it might work like a small windmill. With a hub motor, if it spins fast enough, it will start generating into the batteries without any real modification to the electronics. The amount of power you can get from a wheel sized windmill is not that much, so even a small hub motor would do.

You'd still have to figure out how to keep it from tipping over.

Charging for 8 hours while working or something might produce a respectable amount of energy if you have a windy spot.

 

[Lock]

I like the notion of using wave energy. (The wind turbine would need anchoring, the solar reflectors would need cooling for the PV module.) Wave could employ an inflatable float that is mechanically connected to the generator. The bobbing of the float could exert great force if the float were even moderately sized.
Getting the reciprocal motion of the float into rotational motion might be a bit lossy, but there is plenty of wave energy to supply your generation.

What he said!

From here:
http://swellfuel.com/
"The Lever Operated Pivoting Float will be for sale for research and study starting Jan. 1, 2008. The sizes will be 20 watts, 100 watts, 1000 watts, and 5000 watts. They are prototypes and do not have any warranty. We will expect reports on performance to help improve the device."

Nice to see their product development and international efforts.
I want one.
loCk

 

[Dr. Shock]

Here's a turbine that might suit. Could be made very portable.
http://www.greenwindmill.com/

 

[TylerDurden]

Here's a turbine that might suit. Could be made very portable.
http://www.greenwindmill.com/

Novel approach. With mylar sails and nesting pipes it might be compact enough.

I question the stability of the rotor, since the load is all on the receding side. I suppose two counter-rotating units (stacked) would resolve that concern.

A number of stacked counter-rotating rotors could deliver some power and look pretty wild.

8)

 

[Link]

What if you combined two ideas: Make the turbine out of those flexible photovoltaics. Or cover the float with them. Might supply a negligible amount of power and not be worth it, but whatever.

 

[Lock]

Here's a turbine that might suit. Could be made very portable.
http://www.greenwindmill.com/

Sorry Dr. Shock... I don't buy this one. For one reason, the same reason why sailors moved from square rigs to marconi - no opportunity w/the square rigs to develop lift. Proper turbine blades w/lift&drag would be much more efficient. And cloth flogging in the wind? Gives sailors nightmares... The design might be able to withstand 70mph winds, but how durable will it be over time?

If you are OK with the low tech and inefficiency, a Savonius rotor would be easier to build (and assemble/disassemble) and far more reliable...
http://www.macarthurmusic.com/johnkwilson/MakingasimpleSavoniuswindturbine.htm

With lots of sites that show how to build the generator from ply or steel etc w/copper and magnets and epoxy... eg:
http://scoraigwind.com/

Most folks have seen Savonius rotors... as sidewalk store signs that spin in the wind:

The "problem" w/any wind generators is that there is always more (and usually less disturbed) wind aloft - the higher up the rotor, the better.

Tks

lOcK

 

[lawsonuw]

i think the drag created by the turnbine would take more power to move the bike than it would provide.

In still wind conditions this is always true. Once the wind starts blowing, things are different. The simplest example of wind powered motion is ofc the sail boat. I've also seen wind turbine powered sail boats. The primary advantage is that they can sail using wind from ANY direction, (even head on) and can sail with the wind faster than the wind. The main disadvantage is that a wind turbine and water propeller combo efficient enough for good speed is $$$$$, especially when compared to the cost of a sail.

Marty

 

[Dr. Shock]

"Sorry Dr. Shock... I don't buy this one. For one reason, the same reason why sailors moved from square rigs to marconi - no opportunity w/the square rigs to develop lift. Proper turbine blades w/lift&drag would be much more efficient. And cloth flogging in the wind? Gives sailors nightmares... The design might be able to withstand 70mph winds, but how durable will it be over time?"

Picky picky...Its salient advantage is that it could be made portable. Probably fold up like an umbrella if you did it right. Harder to do that with a Savonius. Stability through guy wires. The guy's got some video on his site, I think, of one of these things spinning and driving an aeration pump in the middle of a pond.

Anyway, if you don't like that one, try this:

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1052/

You could stretch the ribbon (one or more) across your frame. Just park perpendicular to the prevailing wind. Hard to get lighter and more compact than that.

 

[Lock]

Anyway, if you don't like that one, try this:
http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1052/

Sweet Doc! Thanks for the link. Humdinger home page here:
http://www.humdingerwind.com/

"Sorry Dr. Shock... I don't buy this one. For one reason, the same reason why sailors moved from square rigs to marconi - no opportunity w/the square rigs to develop lift. Proper turbine blades w/lift&drag would be much more efficient. And cloth flogging in the wind? Gives sailors nightmares... The design might be able to withstand 70mph winds, but how durable will it be over time?"

Picky picky...Its salient advantage is that it could be made portable. Probably fold up like an umbrella if you did it right. Harder to do that with a Savonius. Stability through guy wires. The guy's got some video on his site, I think, of one of these things spinning and driving an aeration pump in the middle of a pond.

Actually, my thoughts on a Savonius are for the "vanes" made of cloth that slot into top and bottom disks... so collapsible that way... Although low efficiency, I like the Savonius as low tech and easy/cheap to construct. One advantage it does have over horizonal axis generators is that it doesn't need to orient itself into the wind...

You could stretch the ribbon (one or more) across your frame. Just park perpendicular to the prevailing wind. Hard to get lighter and more compact than that.

Well, lets hope Humdinger gets the output up. Milliwatts just won't cut it for even the smallest EVs...

lOCk

 

[Dr. Shock]

"Actually, my thoughts on a Savonius are for the "vanes" made of cloth that slot into top and bottom disks... so collapsible that way... Although low efficiency, I like the Savonius as low tech and easy/cheap to construct. One advantage it does have over horizonal axis generators is that it doesn't need to orient itself into the wind..."

Yes, maybe you could have batten pockets in the edges, and the battens would give it the helix twist.

I don't think the greenwindmill thing needs to be oriented to the wind. One of the four sails is always downwind. It is a pretty clever design.

 

[Mathurin]

How about something kinda like this to take advantage of side winds in realtime?

Edit: Somehow, if this actually works I'd expect it would already be common.

EditII: On a wind that comes mostly from the front (such as while riding along most of the time) the top blade would be useless while the bottom ones would turn turn into the wind and be worse then useless.

 

[mcstar]

When I saw the title of your post, I thought about something different. Since Wind turbines are so expensive, and ebike hubs, not so much... has anyone thought of using an ebike hub as a wind turbine? Imagine mounting the hub up on a pole on a lazy suzan.. adding some aluminum blades where the spkes go, and putting a "rudder" on the other end. Then you could drive a motor controller's source with the voltage generated by the motor, just like a regen system on a bike... hmmmm! Seems you could put up a 300-600watt system pretty easily!

 

[Dr. Shock]

"... has anyone thought of using an ebike hub as a wind turbine? "

There's a lot of stuff on the net about using Fisher & Paykel washing machine motors as wind generators, and I think someone in the Southern hemisphere has been using them as bike motors as well.

There's a guy in Scotland named Hugh Piggot, who has been showing people how to make radial flux PM alternators for years as wind generators. This is the same basic design as a bike hubmotor. He's more recently been using axial flux designs.

http://www.scoraigwind.com/

I'd like to see axial flux bike motors as you could power a rotor from two stators, and you could wind them differently to get desirable torque/speed characteristics. You could theoretically have multiple stators and rotors and move some of the stators in and out of phase to control speed.

Anyway, yes, bike motors and wind generators are very similar, and you could use a hubmotor as a windgenerator without a lot of modification.

 

[TylerDurden]

It would be interesting to see how long the bearings last, running 24/7/365.

 

[Frxdy]

Here's a link to how I'm doing it. My last post shows: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3247&start=30

In a 23 MPH wind I can charge four dead car batteries in an hour. (mathematically). My blades are almost 20 feet across. I don't think wings on wheels will have nearly enough power to even work. First, their size is just so small, and second, there's no wind on the ground.

My bike has regen braking. I told my wife is the bike failed I could build another windmill from the motor.For a guess it would take blades about 14 feet across to make it work with the Mars motor.

 

[numberonebikeslover]

well it is good to think of using the wind to generate power. my suggession is that you make a windmill unit other than your bike and permanently install it on the spot where you daily park your bike. so you don't have to worry about extra weight on the bicycle.

i was also thinking of the same thing but i was thinking about using another generator that could be used while pushing the breaks but that will not work constently. only when i want to stop the bike i push my break so there will be a mechanical system that will enforce the generator to suck all the inertial force of the bike to chage batteries alongwith this i'm also thinking about using the same generator at such gear ratio that it will produce about 10% of the power back to the batteries as i paddle

have a nice time

 

[mr.electric]

Sorry to post so long after this thread has been gone and forgotten. I am interested in making a wind generator from an E-bike hub. My main question is what wattage hub motor would be the best use of a 26" blade diameter. I checked all the examples of home made/ simple designs but they focus on large diameter. I think a wheel with vanes attached to the spokes would be good for 100watts but I am only guessing. I know you can calculate theoretical output based on diameter.