Combining 2 batterie packs with sep. BMS in parallel

jk1

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Feb 27, 2009
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I am thinking of getting 2 lincmn batteries from BMS battery and using them in parallel to get the output amps up, will this work? is their any protection diodes i need to use ?

Also when i charge them, am i able to simply use one charger and wire the output in parallel with the 2 batteries so i only have to use one charger ? will this work or do i need to use 2 chargers?


Also i was wondering in future if i will be able to use this batteriesin series to get 48v 10ah, will the BMS work in this case and do i need any protection diodes in that case ? or do i need a new BMS thats for 48v ?
 
Yes 2 batts in parallel double the AH and halve the draw from each batt. Less strain on each batt. It's probably best to use a double Schottky diode to protect the BMS's from reverse surge current. See http://www.maplin.co.uk/30a-schottky-barrier-rectifiers-46429. It's about 3-4cm long. Attach live output of one batt to one of the outer legs and the other batt's live to the other outer leg. The middle leg (usually the 'common') goes to the controller. Select diode for the right total V and A you will be using. Bolt it to some aluminium block as a heat sink with conductive paste too. Mount on non-conductive board. Join all the neg wires together to the neg to the controller.
I charge my 2 paralleled batts separately with 2 chargers as it's simpler.
To charge in series requires comment by someone more expert....
I don't think the stock BMS's would allow series connection so you'd probably need to remove them and wire in a new 48V BMS. You'd get 48V if they are 2 24VX10AH batts. Again someone more expert should comment on this.
 
So if i want to run maximum 50 amps out of these i would need to put 2 of these 30 amp shotky diodes in parallel ?

So the wiring you suggested is additional to the normal parallel wiring ?

I.e both + - output of each battery to be paralleled connected, then i add this wiring you suggested from both positive outputs of the batteries to this dual shotky, and then the middle leg to the ground cable of the controller ?

is their a reason why you didnt just parallel the charger connections on the input side of the BMS ? i was thinking of just connecting them in parallel and using a charger with double the amps so i have only 1 charger. Unless this will cause a problem with the BMS , hence maybe i am better to use 2 chargers ?
 
why not just buy one battery that is large enuff so you don't have to do all this pushups. if the drain leg (P-) of the output FETs are tied together from each battery and the charging mosfets on one battery turns off because of HVC on one channel in that battery then what happens? will the other BMS charging mosfet deliver current to the overcharged cell?
 
This a question I have as well. Wanting to put the battery within the frame triangle, I found it quite difficult to find boxes that fit. I finally found a battery where one would fit verticle next to the seat tube, and the other horizontal under the top tube, giving me many more AH than any other combo, but I also have the two bms to work with.
 
Grey beard is correct, i also want 2 packs for this reason so i can split up the mounting locations, but also becuase the stock bms can only handle 15 amps continous per battery.
 
Some battery vendors will build you a split pack. Or get two packs of lower voltage and run them seires connected.

Many options, but one is not particularly better than the other.
 
jk1-all I know is I researched paralleling 2 batts here and Pedelecs UK forum and this seemed the easiest and safest solution. There is no other parallel wiring to do - just attach each live batt output to one or other of the Schottky (causes less V drop than normal diodes) diode outer legs (check the diode's instructions - it may vary from this) and run a wire from the middle common to the pos controller input. Cover it all up with heatshrink. Join the negs from both batts with the controller neg input (I used a simple connector nut rated for the correct As). The Scottky I have linked to is a double diode so just one will do. For 50A you'd need a 60A rating or something like. It will get hot so a bit of ventilation helps along with an adequate lump of metal plus thermal paste - and a non-melting board! The securing screw through the diode hole/metal/board will be live so cover somehow.
I charge them separately. If you have 2 identical batts discharged to the same level all this may be overkill but it's easy to get it wrong once and fry a BMS I understand. There may be better solutions......? dnmun always disputes the need for diodes to parallel and he's entitled to his opinion but others disagree.
 
I have some of these dual shotky diodes lyeing around, will these work ? 48v 40 amps continous will probably the most power i put through both batterie packs in parallel.


Specifications Documents (1)My Notes Manufacturer: Vishay

Product Category: Schottky Diodes & Rectifiers

RoHS: No

RoHS Version Available



Product: Schottky Rectifiers

Peak Reverse Voltage: 100 V

Forward Continuous Current: 40 A

Max Surge Current: 2950 A

Configuration: Dual Common Cathode

Forward Voltage Drop: 0.91 V

Maximum Reverse Leakage Current: 1250 uA

Operating Temperature Range: - 55 C to + 175 C

Mounting Style: Through Hole

Package / Case: TO-247AC

Packaging: Tube

Factory Pack Quantity: 50



http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Semiconductors/40CPQ100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuIUjt4yeP9czzQat3OYqJfble7pUaKCSY=
 
ask that guy. he is the expert on diodes and why they are needed. he did some research on visforvoltage so he knows better than anyone with any EE degrees. what a waste. at least you can't buy them. maybe that will slow down this idiocy.
 
I never used an diode and never had any failures, also with BMS battery batteries. Also in series no problem, but then I always use 2 chargers, each pack it's own charger and I leave the series connection connected.
 
I don't know if that diode you described would be meaty enough as I'm no expert! I would ensure that it was a higher rating. They're only a few £s.
Well I take the advice of EEs - there's a guy called Tiberius on here that seems to know what he's talking about and I quote one of his posts (there's a few - you can search if you want):

Re: Re:How do I connect 2 LiFePO4 packs in Scooter?

Postby Tiberius » Sat May 22, 2010 7:32 am

Battboy wrote:I won't go any further on this. it is getting redundant a bit now. Like I said earlier, each person can decide for themselves......
DH

Well, let me try to help the OP, Snowryder, and anyone else reading.

It is quite possible to parallel battery packs, but you need a few precautions. If they are separate packs you can't just connect them directly together; you need some kind of reverse current protection, but its relatively simple to achieve that. You can connect them through a selector switch, or through reverse protection diodes. Some BMSs may have the equivalent of diode protection built in, but you need to check.

Where it gets difficult is if you want to also charge them with a common connection. Generally this is not possible unless you disconnect the discharge path from each battery pack first. So the simple solution is to have separate charging connectors. You then need multiple chargers or you have to move one charger from pack to pack.

With the above approach, you are treating them as separate packs. It works very well with removable packs, and you then have the choice of using one, the other or both, each time you go out

Another approach is to effectively combine the packs into one, keep them permanently connected, and charge and discharge them together. This is a bit more complex and a lot depends on the BMSs in the packs. Also, you can only do it with packs of the same chemistry. Despite some questioning, I just couldn't work out from Don Harmon (Battboy) whether this is what his system does. I learned stuff about lion tamers and army generals and their excellent regard for customers but not what LifeBatt's electronics actually does.
Forgive me Don, but a lot of the time it sounded as if you were talking about series combinations rather than parallel.
HTH,
Nick

Like I said it seems you can try it without and if identical batts at same charge level it'll be OK. The mod is so simple and batt BMS's expensive I can't see the problem with doing it.... but then I'm no EE so no point in me debating the issue! I was using batts of 2 differing Li chemistries so perhaps more important for me?
 
Well perhaps my ignorance is bliss. I have been running an old 10ah Ping with BMS paralleled with 6 parallel Fatpacks (about 12 AH nominal) for over 1.5 years on my wife's trike with no problems at all. They each drain abour 5 AH over 20 mile rides. Charge separately. The Fatpacks have an LVC from kfong. Probably not needed but since I got these packs at 45 bucks each shipped, they are now well over $100 each so I do try to protect the investment. No diodes.
otherdoc
 
What happens if you parallel them with no diodes, with a flaky Anderson connector on one of them - draining only one of the packs down, which then is reconnected to the other one, at a radically different charge state, as the flaky Anderson reconnects? Zzzzaap?

This occasionally happens on my trike, as I'm not bothering with pre-charge circuits, and my Andersons eventually get worn out. I am using an ideal diode from Tiberius, and no issues when this happens.

I think it is wise to use diode(s) - to prevent known or unknown "accidental" failure modes.
 
Well this time it must be luck, at least with Andersons. I've been using them since 1960's when John Sermos sold them at the electric flying field. So that is over 50 years. I have had very few fail. I crimp them the right way, no solder and use the 45 amp contacts. So far, so good. Still no diodes.
otherDoc
 
even with one fully charged pack, and one flat pack, there won't be that much current flow between them... not enough to do any real damage anyway

the low pack will pull the high pack voltage down
and the high pack will pull the low pack voltage up

the closer you get to there C rate, the closer there voltages will be and the less current will flow

they'll meet in the middle and nothing terrible will happen :)
 
you can use just one of the BMSs that is installed on one of the packs. tie the B- and B+ terminals of the two packs together, connect the two packs through the sense wires so each cell is parallel with the same cell in the other pack, and then use the P- connection for the motor and the P+ is the red wire from the top of the two packs tied in parallel. then they both operate together as one pack, charging and discharging.
 
Hi its for a 24v 500w cyclone motor, the BMS battery BMS can only handle 15 to 20 amps continous and will cut out at 20 amps i am told so 1 BMS is not enough for this motor. So i need to parallel 2 batteries
 
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