CroBorg Super Commuter

[Alan B]

Yes, I have built a couple of master switch systems, but the Borg was already in production before that and I have not made the step of taking it down and apart to install one. When it rises again it will have 100V and lots more good stuff on board. I may try to revive the batteries as an experiment. We'll see how it looks when I get in there. I have to work very late today so it will have to wait till tomorrow.

I got about 5,000 good miles and more than a year of commute use from those batteries, so that's something at least, and a lot of valuable experience.

 

[Alan B]

Thanks for the breaker tip. I'll have to review that breaker and see if it is appropriate for a 100V system.

 

[jkbrigman]

Yes, I have built a couple of master switch systems, but the Borg was already in production before that and I have not made the step of taking it down and apart to install one. When it rises again it will have 100V and lots more good stuff on board. I may try to revive the batteries as an experiment. We'll see how it looks when I get in there. I have to work very late today so it will have to wait till tomorrow.

I got about 5,000 good miles and more than a year of commute use from those batteries, so that's something at least, and a lot of valuable experience.

I'd say you did awesomely awesome to get 5kmi on that battery and system. Keep going, keep improving.

I tried to put the Phat Bike on the road with a "much less than optimal" battery configuration and a rear wheel that just didn't cut it (Although I didn't know that at the time). Problem is that when you get your first real taste of EV living, you want to grab on as quick as you can, even if it means cutting a few corners on the initial configuration.

Two Questions:
1) What pack configuration are you thinking for the future? 12, 18 or 24S?
2) Can you keep us appraised of what you end up with?

I'm "rebuilding" the Phat Bike's battery system, trying to take my time and make it a more robust pack, using lots of ideas I've gotten from E-S. I sure wish you could still get Methods' LVC boards!

 

[Alan B]

You raise a very good point. I was planning to go 24S, extending the existing pack. Since there is no longer an existing pack I could change that to something slightly lower voltage like 20 or 22S, or completely different.

Replacing those exact batteries is $850. I already have the extra 6S batteries for 24S, and lots of 6S chargers, and a 150V 18FET controller so 24S is the most likely target.

This thread is not done, The remaking will probably happen in the spring, right here.

 

[jkbrigman]

You raise a very good point. I was planning to go 24S, extending the existing pack. Since there is no longer an existing pack I could change that to something slightly lower voltage like 20 or 22S, or completely different.

Replacing those exact batteries is $850. I already have the extra 6S batteries for 24S, and lots of 6S chargers, and a 150V 18FET controller so 24S is the most likely target.

This thread is not done, The remaking will probably happen in the spring, right here.

You're going exactly where I thought you might, I'm feeling the pull to leave 18S/74V and go to 12S/50V or 24S/98.4 myself. I'd have to "throw away" a purpose-built charger but at this point I think that might be the wisest thing. Going 12S or 24S simplifies wiring, charging (both bulk and balance) and pack layout. I'll stick with 18S for now, but I'm planning some 12S and 24S testing, to see what happens to performance and range.

BTW: How do you like your Lyen controller? I'll have to throw away (or redeploy on another bike at another voltage) the little 6FET controller I've got.

 

[Alan B]

My Lyen 24FET 100V controller has been excellent after the initial infant mortality of one or more FETs. It failed twice, then Lyen went through it thoroughly and it has been perfect since. I'm not pushing it much with 18S 60A or so. The new controller is a Lyen 18 FET 150V set up for 60A, I need to move the controller out of the cowling to make room for a pair of 48V LED power supplies for onboard charging. The 18FET may go right in front of the cowling and behind the front tire, the 24FET is too large to fit there (and not enough voltage margin for 24S for my comfort).

It occurred to me that I probably have enough 6S 8AH Zippy's on the shelf to get to 18S 16AH which is enough for my commute, so I might put that in for an interim setup.

If I pack carefully I might be able to get 24S 25AH of the 6S 5AH Turnigy's which would make the bike heavier but would give me a lot of range or speed (pick one).

I have another bike that is 18S so I will have use for the charger elsewhere.

One thing I wanted in the next upgrade is an onboard 24S charging system so the bike is plug and play. I could work on that with the Zippy 16AH pack in there and then later upgrade the batteries. My commute takes about 12AH one way, though that might go up. :wink:

 

[Alan B]

Progress Report

Batteries removed, they look fine but voltage is quite low, 8-10V per 6S battery. The 3M strapping tape holds well, probably don't need to use as much of it next time.

If I raid the Mountain bike and my stash I'll be one battery short of the 18S20AH this bike has had, so I ordered 2 more. Should be able to replace what was there and get it back on the road. 24S will have to wait.

The tube chain tensioner has to go, so I'm designing a bracket for the Borg Singulator.

Hopefully be able to build the bracket in the next few days and then re-do the battery pack early next week.

Weather here is glorius now, perhaps I can bring rain by repairing my ebike. :lol:

 

[Animalector]

If you could share your solution when complete that would be awesome. I've got reasonable tension on the chain now so it doesn't come off, but I still want a tensioner or a chain guide. Maybe I'll get someone to 3d print a chain guide. hmm there's an idea.

 

[Alan B]

Looks like my plan to bend the aluminum is not going to work, so I'm looking for an extruded piece to use. This will be better, but may delay the project a few days.

 

[Alan B]

Bits are trickling in. Checking batteries. Two came in, they seem okay. The old spare has a weak cell.

Was given some scraps of aluminum that might work for the mount.

 

[zanedog]

Early Field Results on Fenix BT20

Just returned from a short on-bike lighting test. I set up the Fenix straight ahead, and the MagicShine 808E with spreading lens pointed slightly to the right. Both lights were pointed slightly down. I set it up in a dark corner of our court and tested it up and down the street a few blocks. The streetlights are dim enough that you could clearly see the bike lights. The Cycle Lumenator was kept off.

The Fenix was clearly brighter than the MagicShine. The pattern of the Fenix was up and down, lighting far away in a wide hotspot and downward, a very useful pattern for a bicycle light. The spreader lens equipped MagicShine throws a horizontal band - a hotspot much wider than it is high. I positioned this to start at the edge of the Fenix and light to the right. This way I get the road in front of the wheel and on out, plus the right hand side and gutter. The spill going to the left is much dimmer than the beams, but it is still enough to see close in.

Fenix Plusses

Pushbutton is easier to actuate and downward so it tends to not move the light. (The MagicShine is to the rear and moves the light making it harder to operate).

Fenix when off has indicators lit. The MagicShine indicator runs all the time, draining the battery.

In summary, I like the Fenix BT20 better than I expected to from earlier off-bike testing. More testing will be required, but it did a reasonable job of lighting up both distance and close.

Just ordered one of the Fenix BT20 lights. I picked it because it had easily removable cells. The standard packs that have four batteries soldered together can lead to unbalanced cells. Also, the Fenix is waterproof out of the box. Fast Forward the video to around 6 minutes to see crude but effective testing lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OM0qbAJ8_8#t=21

 

[Alan B]

Thanks for the report on the BT20, I have not used mine much yet. It seems to be a quality light. My Fenix flashlights have been excellent!

New batteries for the Borg have all arrived and are charged. Building an FET master switch to prevent this problem in the future (see separate thread). Have aluminum material to make the chain tensioner mount. These items are required to get the Borg back on the road!

 

[Alan B]

Progress Report

Weather is getting too nice for the ebike to be down anymore. Need to remedy that.

Last evening I made a somewhat crude mount for the Singulator chain tensioner. Not refined, but it works.

Tonite I checked all the battery voltages and mounted the new battery pack.

It is amazing how much wiring there is, and it all has to be exactly right. I'm using the same harness, but lots of wires have been added on top of it so it is a bit tangled. I decided not to plug in batteries when tired. That will wait for another day, but soon!

 

[ecologymagnet]

Will be possible install the cromotor in a steel frame with 136mm axle?

http://www.rczbikeshop.com/default/rcz-011-frame-race-853-black-with-white-stickers-size-20.html

 

[Alan B]

Best to check with the motor distributor to see what frame width they require. My older version is about 135mm but it really should be wider to accommodate a disk brake, and I believe the new ones are wider.

 

[Alan B]

Progress Update

These barrel connectors are not inherently safe, in this case two fully charged 6S 5AH Turnigy packs were inadvertently plugged into each other, instantly destroying both connectors. The event was almost completely contained within the connectors.

Mounted the Methods HVCLVC boards and plugged in the batteries. Managed to make one mistake as shown above, melting two battery connectors, luckily I have lots of those from the damaged packs, so replaced them and finished the battery hookup. All voltages checked OK at the balance connections. Next to do is a major wire organizing and tie-wrapping job, then the side panels, and somewhere in there make the final power connections up.

It is amazing how many wires on this bike. Really would be nice to have a wire minimized design, but standard ebike components aren't designed that way.

edit - added photos

 

[Alan B]

CroBorg Lives Again

12 new Turnigy 6S 5AH batteries, half a roll of 3M Extreme packing tape and 240 tie wraps later we are back on the road (tie wrap estimate artificially inflated). It's not pretty, needs a bath, but it runs. Actually it doesn't look too bad unless you look very close, and the tie wrap job is nicer than it was before. Now complete with a chain tensioner on a slightly crooked mount (I will make a better mount later). Yes, I need to post more photos. Will soon, but right now I need to go unkink my back.

Now Mother Nature will border on rain, teasing me to ride but knowing I don't ride in the wet, but she will tire of that soon, and we'll rack up some emiles (and esmiles). But we do need the rain with the snow pack at 18% of normal, so I'll wait any out. Either way I benefit.

 

[Alan B]

Photo Update

 

[izeman]

nice pictures. but the amount of wires REALLY frightens me
i like to avoid connections and tangeling wires whereever possible. sometime this can take more time to tide up then the rest of the build process.
why did you tension the chain to the outside and not pull it inwards?

 

[drew12345]

Cool! I like the look of those bikes.

 

[Alan B]

nice pictures. but the amount of wires REALLY frightens me
i like to avoid connections and tangeling wires whereever possible. sometime this can take more time to tide up then the rest of the build process.
why did you tension the chain to the outside and not pull it inwards?

I tried lifting the chain for tension, but it didn't have enough room, so I flipped it around. I will be rebuilding the mount so things may change later.

The wiring is interesting. Not much on there is extra. Every battery (of 12) has 9 conductors. Plus lights, throttle, ebrake regen, kill switch, cycle analyst, per cell voltage sampling for balance checking/charging, and charging leads plus of course the motor/controller wiring. I suppose I do have four extra conductors for charging as I brought each 6S group out to the charge connections rather than a single 18S pair, so I can charge each 6S bank independently, and my main charger is three 25V LED supplies that each charge a bank.

I think I will change the wiring to the individual cells to something more rugged (and individually fused) instead of all the JST-XH extensions currently coming from the Methods HVCLVC boards. These small wires have not been a problem but are somewhat fragile. But I do want to bring the individual cell voltages out for balance checking and charging, at least until I have a BMS that reads out and balances each cell on the bike. The BMS project is down the list a bit at the moment...

I do have a lot of tie wraps to keep the wiring in place, and there are corrugated plastic cardboard guards between the wires and the batteries in most places, plus the covers really keep things neat and organized, for the most part. The main current is in a custom harness that is hydraulically crimped and heavily insulated.

 

[Alan B]

Should have ridden today after all. Beautiful weather though it did produce some rain clouds, but no precip.

 

[Alan B]

On the Road Again

Had a very nice commute run this morning. Passed a couple miles of cars stuck in traffic.

Chain tensioner worked perfectly.

Battery worked perfectly. Mostly charged now, balance good.

 

[Alan B]

Another boring commute along the San Pablo Reservoir, I like unexciting commutes.

This morning passed several miles of cars stuck in traffic, again. Normally this route is a little faster by car than by ebike, but the traffic adds 10-30 minutes to a 25 minute car commute, so my 30-35 minute ebike commute is very nice, fairly consistent and FASTER.

 

[Alan B]

Didn't ride Thursday due to weather and Friday due to needing the truck.

Today I went through the bike to tighten the headset and various fasteners. Good thing to do periodically, especially after a drop. The headset was definitely a little sloppy before, it didn't want to tighten but it finally did, I think. Hard to tell with a suspension front fork moving around too, and the bike a bit heavy to lift up and unload the bearings.

Charging it back up and getting ready for this coming week, hopefully be able to ride!

Had a mishap with the 2 amp 18S Alloy Shell BMSBattery charger, connected it wrong (my bad) and popped the output fuse. Seems to work with a new fuse, I'll have to watch that extra carefully for awhile. Need to work on connectoring to improve that.