CUT OUT ON POWER cyclone 650watt lifepo 36v 20ah new

[internethope]

hello to all again, i forgot to mention from a fair few comms with jimmy prior too receiveing my battery i referred to him that people where getting disatisified with service and receiving poor qualit chargers, bms and delivery times. he told me that it was a suplier problem and that he was changing supplier.

i hope he has as his lively hood and reputation is at stake.

** to all who have helped me with my problem please accept my deepest cordial thanks.



the bike is going through upgrades at the moment as i have to get some better alloy pannier brackets made and new steel pulleys for recumbent kmx kart as the nylon ones and the cyclone one lasted about 7 miles. i may buy the much needed CA next to help look after bike electronics,

question, can i purchase better redction gears for the cyclone gearbos as my kmx is steel and i am also very heavy myself.
perhaps a smaller sprocket is available? anyone ?

rob.

 

[dnmun]

you only get 15Ah from a 20Ah pack? how do you know if you don't have the CA or wattsup?

does your BMS shut the battery down when you reach the end? can you tell if the battery actually reaches full charge or is only partial charge and that is why it seems you have less capacity?

he uses the same supplier of the signalab boards as mr ping, but the output fets melt the solder they get so hot. never heard that of ping.

i think the ping pouches may be a better solution than the 9 or so parallel cylindrical cells in the jimmy wu/cammyc/mp3hk packs. jmho, and seems like ping is more responsive in every way. even hanging around here occasionally. i think the headway packs are the deal right now though. the group buy should be loaded and on the way now, so hopefully we can read about them in a month or so. headway also has been very responsive when people had problems, but it seems like the new cells are better than the previous batches. and they have screw caps for easy removal and installation.

 

[internethope]

you only get 15Ah from a 20Ah pack? how do you know if you don't have the CA or wattsup?

does your BMS shut the battery down when you reach the end? can you tell if the battery actually reaches full charge or is only partial charge and that is why it seems you have less capacity?

he uses the same supplier of the signalab boards as mr ping, but the output fets melt the solder they get so hot. never heard that of ping.

i think the ping pouches may be a better solution than the 9 or so parallel cylindrical cells in the jimmy wu/cammyc/mp3hk packs. jmho, and seems like ping is more responsive in every way. even hanging around here occasionally. i think the headway packs are the deal right now though. the group buy should be loaded and on the way now, so hopefully we can read about them in a month or so. headway also has been very responsive when people had problems, but it seems like the new cells are better than the previous batches. and they have screw caps for easy removal and installation.

its possibly the BMS cuttting out protecting the battery as when i pull off giving it max juice the controller/ motor is drawing 55 amps then that is when the batery cuts out so it is likely the BMS and my rather lumpish attitude on the throttle, combined with my pie eating profiled figure. the speed controller is 30 amp rated and the motor is 650 watt. think im running in threshold tolerences here.
i feel sure the BMS will fix things in the correct direction so i can ride with assist to help loose a few pounds in the long run.

 

[internethope]

hello again, i have got in touch with cycle analyst and have been told that ,



Unfortunately though, the CycleAnalyst may not be fast enough acting to prevent the current draw from tripping out your BMS circuit. It can quite safely regulate the continuous or average discharge current that you see to keep the cells within their 'C' rating, but the amps peak the moment that you hit full throttle won't be affected. Your best bet would be to either bypass the BMS of you battery for discharging, or use another battery pack in parallel with the one that you have so that together they can handle the peak current.

justin.

if you reading this thank you justin.

i like the idea of getting another battery and this time a ping battery , any more suggestions from anyone ?

p.s i may tweak the current battery as i have kindly been advised to change the wires from the BMS to get better voltage reading from the first couple of cells. but thats later , i gotta get it running first.

so im on the brink of buying another battery just waiting for independant feedback before committing.

many thanks,
robert. UK

 

[trappermike]

From what I hear you describe I believe your battery Pack is 100% ok,just the current limit in the BMS is set too low,and it is "kicking out". I had the same problem with a 36v-10ah Li-ion pack from new,but it was my fault,I ordered the battery with a 25a output limit,and ended up installing it with a Xlyte 35a contoller.The bike would shut off the instant I touched the throttle,it wouldn't move an inch. I yanked the 35a box and installed a 20a controller and the bike ran 100% ok. Then months later I got curious(and lusting more power) so I cut the shrink wrap on the battery pack open,and bypassed the output circuit on the BMS,then installed the 35a controller again and the bike ran fine.
But a few months later the bike became very anemic,barely running,so I tested the battery after charging(The charger indicated all ok) and found the voltage only 34v,not the usual 42 when charged...I tested the charger,it was putting out ok. So reluctantly I performed surgury on the battery pack again and bypassed the charging cicuit on the BMS. I knew to watch for the battery getting hot and the voltage was increasing ok,but then I forgot about it for an hour or so...,and as someone else said-the battery smelled REALLY bad and the cells were swollen,I figured it cooked. It now lays in a box,DOA.
I don't know if my bypassing the output cicuit caused the early failure.
I believe I had mis-matched the battery for the motors thirst for amps.

 

[dnmun]

trapper, you cooked the battery while it was on the charger? the BMS should shut off the charging current when the cells reach the overcharged level. you must have disconnected the black wire from the BMS to the battery negative and attached the battery negative (black wire) to the charger negative? where is the black wire from the controller? does it go to the battery negative too?

internethope, i would recommend the ping pack too. sounds like you need more current.
too many people have had problems with the jimmy wu packs, i have no experience personally. cammycc is on here occasionally and talks about how jimmy wu is a fake.

cammycc is offering to sell a pack cheap to someone for testing. to establish bona fides for their battery pack, without too much expense to them. even that small gesture is a significant consideration.

 

[Pete]

i like the idea of getting another battery and this time a ping battery , any more suggestions from anyone ?

p.s i may tweak the current battery as i have kindly been advised to change the wires from the BMS to get better voltage reading from the first couple of cells. but thats later , i gotta get it running first.

so im on the brink of buying another battery just waiting for independant feedback before committing.

I am not sure what the trip amps is on the V2 Ping, I am running a V1. Happy to be corrected by somebody running a V2 but I think you will still have the problem of tripping the BMS if you run a single 36v20a ping. Unlike the 500w and smaller Cyclone's, you can run the 650w up to 36v safely.

 

[internethope]

i like the idea of getting another battery and this time a ping battery , any more suggestions from anyone ?

p.s i may tweak the current battery as i have kindly been advised to change the wires from the BMS to get better voltage reading from the first couple of cells. but thats later , i gotta get it running first.

so im on the brink of buying another battery just waiting for independant feedback before committing.

I am not sure what the trip amps is on the V2 Ping, I am running a V1. Happy to be corrected by somebody running a V2 but I think you will still have the problem of tripping the BMS if you run a single 36v20a ping. Unlike the 500w and smaller Cyclone's, you can run the 650w up to 36v safely.

hmm, i did a voltage check on the battery and its 42 volts fully charged. also it was tripping at about 50 55 amps ,under stop starts situation.


regards, robert.
ive tweaked the battery as was shown . i changed the wires for lowerer impedence and have too tweak the shunt next.

 

[nomad85]

I don't think the ping batteries can handle 55amps either. 40 is the max continuous rating on a 20Ah pack. Cyclone kits need lots of amps thats why they sell PSI sells on their site. I think you need some headway/psi/ or A123 cells for this bike. I would recommend a hub motor setup instead as you will be able to use your current battery, and the cost to make a suitable battery for the cyclone would be very expensive compared to just getting a decent hub motor and controller.

 

[internethope]

I don't think the ping batteries can handle 55amps either. 40 is the max continuous rating on a 20Ah pack. Cyclone kits need lots of amps thats why they sell PSI sells on their site. I think you need some headway/psi/ or A123 cells for this bike. I would recommend a hub motor setup instead as you will be able to use your current battery, and the cost to make a suitable battery for the cyclone would be very expensive compared to just getting a decent hub motor and controller.

yea , i think you maybe onto something there. i been advised to use a cycle analyst which sounds great but i got in touch with there sales advisor and they said its probably not goign to fix the problem. maybe ile wait till next summer and buy some A123's.

shame to leave the bike battery with no use though, perhap i can have another project use for it.

 

[nomad85]

shame to leave the bike battery with no use though, perhap i can have another project use for it.

The nine continents kit from e-bikes.ca seems like one of the best deals going right now. I have 2 similar kits(same motor)
What kind of recumbent did you get?

 

[internethope]

shame to leave the bike battery with no use though, perhap i can have another project use for it.

The nine continents kit from e-bikes.ca seems like one of the best deals going right now. I have 2 similar kits(same motor)
What kind of recumbent did you get?

i bought a kmx kart, middle of the range. just looking now for te kit but cant find it.

 

[nomad85]

http://ebikes.ca/store/store_nc.php

 

[Pete]

Rob,
A123's are without a doubt the current bee's knee's of LiFePO's. But they are pretty expensive on a $ per watt basis.

An alternative would be to parallel a second battery with your current one. This would split the load roughly between the two and keep the C rate on each pack down to a safe level. Yes, you are looking at basically doubling the weight of your battery setup. But then you are also doubling your available range too. There are a number of threads about parallelling ping batteries on the forum, let us know if you can't find them.

 

[internethope]

Rob,
A123's are without a doubt the current bee's knee's of LiFePO's. But they are pretty expensive on a $ per watt basis.

An alternative would be to parallel a second battery with your current one. This would split the load roughly between the two and keep the C rate on each pack down to a safe level. Yes, you are looking at basically doubling the weight of your battery setup. But then you are also doubling your available range too. There are a number of threads about parallelling ping batteries on the forum, let us know if you can't find them.

thanks for help, its very appreciated.

nice to have options.

 

[dnmun]

you can add an extra wire to the shunt wires in the BMS too. that would allow you to push more than the 2C rate from the battery in surges, but the continuous rating is something you could just monitor on the CA and keep it under 2C, which is really a lot of power in any case.

do you know how the BMS works and where the shunt is? some people just add solder to bridge the wires, when adjusting the limit on the controller, but you can also just solder a wire in parallel, so the limit is only raised a small amount.

adding a 3rd wire of the same size and length would add 50%, so maybe use a little smaller diameter wire and double the length and keep the limit to under 50% increase and you should be able to get 50-55A, or add a buncha solder to the bridge and push it over 80A which will result in alotta sag too, but you gotta do what you gotta do until the weight comes down.

 

[Pete]

Rob, keep in mind the BMS over current circuit is there to protect the cells from being discharged above their designed C rating which equals reduced cell life.

There are several people on the forum who are either increasing the overcurrent limmit or just bypassing the protection all together. But they are making the informed decision and the tradeoff is acceptable to them, for their intended purpose.

I am certainly not saying don't do it. Just giving both sides to the coin so you can make an informed decision on what is most appropriate for you.

 

[internethope]

Rob, keep in mind the BMS over current circuit is there to protect the cells from being discharged above their designed C rating which equals reduced cell life.

There are several people on the forum who are either increasing the overcurrent limmit or just bypassing the protection all together. But they are making the informed decision and the tradeoff is acceptable to them, for their intended purpose.

I am certainly not saying don't do it. Just giving both sides to the coin so you can make an informed decision on what is most appropriate for you.

thanks for that, i must admit many people have given me clear input from lots of angles. i have found developing skills and propper knowledge hard in the past, or over the years but here on this forum along with having the passion to be attentive on the subject , have found it very educating experience so i hopw to continue to create things and use forums to help guide me in making balanced desiscions.

hopefully someday i can repay someone else by passing on propper advice and save time and effort in someones project.

i hope to make a hydrogen cell again sometime. even better id like to make a wind charge dock for my bike someday as i live in UK and solar is a bit unpredictable tbh.

shame rainfall isnt very harnaceable haha, it rains all the time in UK . i think thats why most of us are quite miserable half the time!