CYC X1 Pro Gen 4. Removing Hub drive from rim. Is this Quando Hub/axle combo strong enough?

[donsreview]

So i have sucessfully installed the CYC X1 pro gen 4 on my Mokwheel hubdrive (fat tire) ebike and i want to get rid of the hub motor. I purchsed this Hub from an ebay seller not realizing that the axle for this hub looks to be a little on the small size. Was wondering what you guys think if this hub is worth using or should i try to find something else that is 190mm width and a bigger axle? it measures in at 10mm thickness on the axle.

 

[amberwolf]

What is your dropout design? If it's not a removable / replaceable dropout, that you could machine a new one to fasten in there, then you're "stuck" with the dropout size you already have.

If it had a hubmotor on there, then it's almost certainly already a 10mm dropout (for the 10mm axle flats on almost all hubmotors), which they adopted because the typical bicycle axles are 10mm (or 9mm).

If it has removable dropouts, you can replace them with ones you machine or make (angle grinder, files, hacksaw, etc), that fit whatever hub you want to use.

There are multiple bicycle axle standards of different sizes and different types and installation methods, each of which has it's own dropout standard to go with it. Since the frames are usually built with dropouts permanently as part of them, then unless you're willing and able to modify the frame, most of the time you have to use whatever standard that happens to be built for.

 

[Chalo]

That's a normal axle size for bicycles, including tandems and cargo bikes. In addition, the axle overhangs are short. What problem do you think you would have? Just because it isn't a heavy ugly piece of junk doesn't make it weak.

I'd be more concerned about the structurally crippled frame of your goofy bike. Traditional bikes are the shape they are for well-tested and formerly understood reasons (now forgotten by capitalist doofuses), and when they don't look like that they're most likely doing it wrong.

 

[donsreview]

What is your dropout design? If it's not a removable / replaceable dropout, that you could machine a new one to fasten in there, then you're "stuck" with the dropout size you already have.

If it had a hubmotor on there, then it's almost certainly already a 10mm dropout (for the 10mm axle flats on almost all hubmotors), which they adopted because the typical bicycle axles are 10mm (or 9mm).

If it has removable dropouts, you can replace them with ones you machine or make (angle grinder, files, hacksaw, etc), that fit whatever hub you want to use.

There are multiple bicycle axle standards of different sizes and different types and installation methods, each of which has it's own dropout standard to go with it. Since the frames are usually built with dropouts permanently as part of them, then unless you're willing and able to modify the frame, most of the time you have to use whatever standard that happens to be built for.

Axle that is there now is 12mm. The bike currently has a 1kw hub motor. I ask if the 10mm QR axle is strong enough because the cyc mid drive kit is 6kw and I will be running a 72v battery that can deliver 90amps continuously and 120 Amp bursts. I've added a Pic of my drop out.

 

[donsreview]

That's a normal axle size for bicycles, including tandems and cargo bikes. In addition, the axle overhangs are short. What problem do you think you would have? Just because it isn't a heavy ugly piece of junk doesn't make it weak.

I'd be more concerned about the structurally crippled frame of your goofy bike. Traditional bikes are the shape they are for well-tested and formerly understood reasons (now forgotten by capitalist doofuses), and when they don't look like that they're most likely doing it wrong.

Frame appears to be pretty beefy. More so than most regular bikes. I am pretty sure my bike was made with the intention of being an ebike, it's not a regular Walmart bike that was converted into a ebike. If your not familiar the cyc x1 pro gen 4 middrive kit it is 6kw, the hub motor that's on their now (not in use) is 1kw. Power source at this moment is 72v 60amp continuous 18650 20s6p battery. But soon to be 20s3p battery (702100 molicel 50b) that can deliver 90amps continously and 120amp bursts (BMS limitation). Ide like to loose the weight of the hub motor since I only use the middrive now. But I'm just not certain if that axle on the new hub is up to the task. My last post shows a Pic of my drop out. It's 190mm wide.

 

[amberwolf]

Axle that is there now is 12mm.

Between the flat sides? (this is the narrowest part, and the dimension taht determines dropout size and thus axle size that fits in it).

Pretty much all of them (outside of motorcycle/car/etc sized motors) are 10mm between the flats, and that's the dimension that matters.

I ask if the 10mm QR axle is strong enough because the cyc mid drive kit is 6kw and I will be running a 72v battery that can deliver 90amps continuously and 120 Amp bursts.

What hardware do they recommend having? Or what minimum hardware do they require?

My guess it it's strong enough. I use a QR axle on the front of the heavy heavy-cargo trike SB Cruiser, and it handles the braking forces stopping a few hundred pounds of trike, me, load, etc (over half a ton of weight with some of the biggest loads carried on the trailer over the years). I dont' know the math, but I'm sure there's a way to find out how much force that places on the axle, and the same math should be able to see how much force your gearing and that motor would put on your QR axle.


I'd be more worried about the OEM parts of the bike itself, if it has suspension pivots, etc., as thsoe are usually plastic bushings rather than bearings, etc. The pivot bolts are probably metal, but they probably don't fit the holes precisely. Between these two things the chain pulling may force the frame sideways at the right rear during accelerations, and wiggle the rear end back and forth from this repeatedly, wearing the bushings / pivots faster than usual (or even damaging them if suspension is in action during the lateral movements and those are hard enough).

I've added a Pic of my drop out.

You'd have to actually see / measure / etc the dropout itself, rather than all the installed hardware on it, to know what it is; waht size axle it can hold, etc.

It does appear to have a torque plate built just to hold the axle in the dropout, so if the dropout itself is a big hole behind that, youc ould make your own version of htat TP to be a dropout for whatever axle you want to use in there, assuming it's made the same way on both sides of the bike. .

View attachment 370969

 

[Chalo]

Frame appears to be pretty beefy. More so than most regular bikes.

Yeah, it's most likely a 15-20 pound frame doing a 4 pound frame's job. That's the kind of thing you make when you don't understand structures or adopt best practices. See also fat tires that don't get used on snow or sand.

 

[scianiac]

I think potentially the most important factor is how strong is the freehub, that is what has to take all of that torque. The final torque will depend on gearing. But the style of freehub, ratchet vs pawl, ratchets are generally stronger. Also fewer points of engagement is generally stronger but all of these do at some point depend on the design and material quality. I was quite worried I would blow up my freehub running a very high torque mid drive but so far it's been fine, although I did take several precautions to avoid stressing it and it's a quite sturdy freehub. I'm also sort of torque limited as I can't increase it any higher since I'm at the limit of my low bodyweight's ability to keep the front end down, a heavier person on a heavier bike could apply significantly more.