Cycle Analyst VS. Battery Analyzer

[reptilian]

OK, so in one corner we've got the Cycle Analyst from ebikes at a hefty $140 plus shipping
http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml

In the other corner, you've got the Wattsup Battery Analyzer weighing in at mere $53.95 plus shipping.
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1634

As far as I can tell, other then the speed meter on the CA, these are the same thing. Please, someone help me out here. Is there any reason anyone should shell out the extra $100+ (international shipping) for the CA?

 

[PWJM]

well.. i can only speak for the CA because thats what I have. The first thing that immediately comes to my mind is that if used in conjunction with the other C-lyte parts from ebikes.ca, is that it's a brainless install... just plug it in and go.

I'm not sure if it was the wattsup, but I have also heard people liked the CA better because it stores the data without being plugged into a battery supply, where as the other item lost all its data after it was disconnected from the battery.

 

[Russell]

As far as I can tell, other then the speed meter on the CA, these are the same thing. Please, someone help me out here. Is there any reason anyone should shell out the extra $100+ (international shipping) for the CA?

Reptilian,

I think you need to go back and re-read the info on the CA from the link you posted. I feel the biggest advantages of the CA is realized when you buy the direct connect version which can plug into the modified Crystalyte controllers that ebikes.ca sells (plus some other controllers). That means you don't have to run your battery power cables to the meter and then back to the battery as you have to with the WU. The CA can also be set to limit speed or current which can be useful. It's also backlit, auto shutdowns, includes a handlebar mount plus as mentioned above it'll hold information when off and as you noted will display speed so one less thing you need on your handlebars. It's included in their 9C kit at a bargain price.

I have a Watt's Up meter and it's fine but if I had my druthers I'd like to have the direct connect CA.

EDIT: I do have a plus for the WU meter; I have powerpoles on mine so I can quickly disconnect it and use it elsewhere.


-R

 

[nomad85]

I have used both. CA(direct connected) is by far the better choice. It has a back light which is handy for night riding, it computes various handy stats for you, and it stores the information when off. If your controller is compatible and you can wire it for the direct connection then I would recommend the CA for sure, if you have to use a shunt, I might go for the watts up/battery monitor instead with a separate speedometer.

 

[snowcrow]

I have a "Watt's-Up" on my ride, which does just fine for me. It's for short commuting

If your planning on doing any long bike trips, I'd get the Cycle Analyst. It will help you keep a watchful eye on the number of wh/km, and it also keeps track of regen

Blessings, Snow Crow 8)

 

[philf]

I have both. They really AREN'T the same thing. One is like a measurement tool (like a multimeter), and the other more like a dashboard instrument. Notwithstanding the many software features of the CA, some things that come immediately to mind...

- The Watts-Up starts up and begins telling you what's going on the instant it sees power. The instant power is removed, it's reset and the accumulated data lost.

- The Cycle Analyst recognizes power loss and stashes its collected data in EEPROM before dying. When you power it back on, it continues from where it left off.

This is HUGE. I've *NEVER* gotten to the end of a discharge cycle and been able to read what the total Ah/Wh was with the Watts-Up. One inadvertent loss of power (blown fuse, accidental disconnection, BMS trip) and the Watts-Up is back to zero. The CA? Power it back on tomorrow, and it'll tell you where you were when the lights went out.

You CAN power the Watts-up via a separate power supply (and even provide a reset function via a switch), but this is extra stuff hanging off the meter - and that brings me to my next important difference...

- The Watts-Up meter requires that you run HEAVY wires (the main feed between your batteries and controller) through it. There are ways to reduce the number of wires from four heavy gauge to two heavy gauge plus one thin (the ground path always has to be in the main line, and the positive lead is only tapped for power), but this is still ugly to have on your handlebars. It *is* possible to remove the shunt from the Watts-Up and run it remotely - doing so involves cracking the ultrasonically sealed case and voids your warranty.

- ALL flavours of the CA use either a remote shunt, or the ones that are targeted for direct connection to a controller use the controller's shunt. All you have going to the handlebars is a thin black cable.

And that brings to mind another important difference... The CA comes ready to mount on your handlebars. The Watts-Up... Well, I guess you can use duct tape

For anyone who, like me, has encountered both meters but has never had a Watts-Up meter apart - here's something else to consider...

The face of the Watts-Up that you see through the window in the case is the actual face of the LCD module that's soldered to the board. The opening in the face of the case is just that - an opening. NO plastic window in it. Watertight? NO.

The Cycle Analyst's back cover has no gasket, but the top and sides ARE weather resistant. No problem riding in the rain.

Anyways, these are the things that jump right out at me when I see the CA and Watts-Up talked about in the same context. As mentioned, there was a lot of thought put in to the CA's software that really makes it a true e-bike solution.

 

[Rassy]

I have a Watts Up for each of my 48V 20AH LifePO4's. But unlike most here (and being real old) about the only thing I want to give attention to on the handlebars is the speedometer, so the Watts Up's are set up to be plugged in right at the battery. The main function I use is the AH consumption (fuel gauge) which I check during rest stops or at the end of a ride.

Anyway, this works out great for me, because sometimes I only have one battery in use, but sometimes I use them both, either connected in parallel or fully independent (one motor on the bike and the other on a trailer with separate throtles, etc.). And since I use the same batteries on different platforms (bike and trike) the Watts Up is always there.

Bottom line, as nice as a Cycle Analyst appears to be, I wouldn't trade my Watts Up's for one as long as I'm using the batteries in several different configurations.

Edit: Since the Watts Up rules said to always disconnect the load before the power, I have the Watts Up ahead of the BMS and fuse. Therefore, no data is lost if a problem occurs, which has helped figure out what is happening when exceeding the BMS limit, etc.

 

[Kraeuterbutter]

@philf:

may i ask you some questions ?
iam interested in the CA...
(in the moment i use a eagletree with external display)

i would be interested in the stand-alone-version, so i can use it with any controller and not only with a crystalite controller

iam mostly interested in the speed, current and undervoltage limit-features of the controller..

iam currently running a 36V Bafang with a 14A controller
i want to limit this current more, and also the speed (if i wana use it in vienna and not offroad, so for beeing legal)

how complicated is it, to lower the amp-limit ? how fast can you do it ? (how practical is the chaning of the limits)
how far down can you limit it... is it possible to set a limit at 5A ?
how far down can you limit the under-voltage protection ?

thx for any help !

 

[reptilian]

Watertight? NO.

This about sums it up for me. Nothing else matters if it can not hold up to any moister. If the CA was not water resistant and the WU was. I would be getting the WU in a heartbeat. Thanks for all the info though. I knew joining here would be much better then posting everything on the EBike threads of bikeforums.net

 

[JEB]

I draw sometimes 200+ amps from a 24v batt system for a couple of seconds (2) 75ah batts) perm 132 motor, I used the watts up meter because of It's price, and because I still needed a high current reading system, no need to run # 6 wires to the front of the trike.

I took a 60amp analog meter, took out the built in shunt, it turned out to take more than 9/10ths of the amps through it in a parrell system, filed it down so the meter reads 1/10 of the current. Just mentally move the decimal point over one place, most of the current goes through the shunt that I placed close to the motor. Don't have to worry about blowing anything if I forget to turn the watts up on.

 

[ElectricEd]

I looked around a lot before deciding on the Cycle Analyst. It is one of those few products where the law of diminishing returns does not apply. As mentioned earlier, the Battery Analyser is not much more than a dumb multimeter. The CA on the other hand has so many features that it is a no brainer. You can even hook up a data cable (if you have some electronic skills) and download the data from each trip.
It maybe about 3 times the price, but it has at least 10 times the features. It won't go zap in the rain and can be used when in a few years you decide to do your first electric car conversion.
On top of all that, Justin's prompt advice and extremely helpful backup service is the best I've seen. It's rare to find a business where the manager loves the subject as much as he. Most are run by "suits" who are only in it for the buck.
IMHO, go for the CA, you won't regret it.

 

[Ypedal]

Yup, everything said above and more.

I have 6 CA's !!! , everything from the original DrainBrain to the direct plugin model.. ( Even got a rare Red one !! Thanks Justin !! !)

I also have a Doc Wattson ( same as WU ), limited to 48v battery pack ( fully chaged 56v ) . the CA is good to 100v if you ever want to run a 72v pack.

Add to this handlebar mounting, SPEEDO and trip meter, backlight, it's a great piece of kit as they would say in the uk..

 

[erth64net]

It seems like, for ~$110, one could get an Eagle Tree eLogger + display, and end up with more features, increased efficiency (uses a hall-effect sensor, not a shunt), and a smaller/tighter package than the Cycle Analyst.

Any ideas why the eLogger seems shunned in most EV discussions?

 

[Drunkskunk]

It seems like, for ~$110, one could get an Eagle Tree eLogger + display, and end up with more features, increased efficiency (uses a hall-effect sensor, not a shunt), and a smaller/tighter package than the Cycle Analyst.

Any ideas why the eLogger seems shunned in most EV discussions?

it handles a peak of 70 volts, it doesn't come in a nice handle bar mountad case, it can't adjust the max amps or max speed, and it's not an odometer, speedometer, or battery cycle counter.

Like the whattsup meter, it looks like a very usefull tool, but it's not a direct replacement for a CA.

 

[knightmb]

It seems like, for ~$110, one could get an Eagle Tree eLogger + display, and end up with more features, increased efficiency (uses a hall-effect sensor, not a shunt), and a smaller/tighter package than the Cycle Analyst.

Any ideas why the eLogger seems shunned in most EV discussions?

Well, honestly, I've never used one before. I'm not sure if it's shunned, more just a lot of us have never used one. I use a CA myself and it's an all-in-one e-bike solution for me. Rather than have two displays for power and then another for speed, I get them all in one. Plus, riding through a lot of rain and putting a lot on hours on mine, it will still works great. No need for backup batteries, the one button interface makes it easy to change most everything about it, plus you can even tweak the shunt settings to really use it anywhere that you like with larger shunts for say a electric car for example. I can read it at night, I've ridden in temperatures that range from 10F (-12C) all the way up to 110F (43C) and it always works like a charm. I can even fine tune the power usage so that the power used by the meter itself or the variable temperature outside doesn't affect long term readings.

I'm sure the other meters work just fine, but for e-bike, the CA seems more designed for it, where as the others just seem more like "meter" meters that isn't really specialized towards what I would use it for.

 

[erth64net]

It seems like, for ~$110, one could get an Eagle Tree eLogger + display, and end up with more features, increased efficiency (uses a hall-effect sensor, not a shunt), and a smaller/tighter package than the Cycle Analyst.

Any ideas why the eLogger seems shunned in most EV discussions?

it handles a peak of 70 volts, it doesn't come in a nice handle bar mountad case, it can't adjust the max amps or max speed, and it's not an odometer, speedometer, or battery cycle counter.

Like the whattsup meter, it looks like a very usefull tool, but it's not a direct replacement for a CA.

Ahh, so you want to limit power & speed, I guess just holding back off the throttle isn't enough? That's interesting, as those who run their eBike/eScooter setups to beyond the 60-70v volt range...I haven't seen many mentions of them also wanting to limit power. It always seems, those running very minimalistic setups are those who'd want to limit power and/or speed.

Though, for the Watt's Up, is only going to 60 volts somehow better? I see the CA can reach upwards of 200V, on special-order versions. Geeze, one can pump over 10KW through an eLogger before smoking it...that's upwards of 14HP; something seemingly more than sufficient for a vast majority of eBikes/eScooters out there.

As for odometer and speedometer functions, if you're not using the eLogger's GPS option for those metrics (which of-course costs more $$), you could always use its existing RPM/speedometer functions...

I was just steered towards another option as well: Hyperion Emeter II. Of-course that one only does 75V/150A (~15HP)... Off-hand, I'm not fond of its display options.

If one didn't want to governor their power output, is not trying to build something that's pulling over 10KW, and is OK with the idea of saving ~$40 on the initial purchase price, in exchange for spending the money to make a certainly smaller/thinner waterproofed handlebar-mounted case.

It seems, for just a little bit more initial effort, the eLogger would be a great choice.

 

[erth64net]

Well, honestly, I've never used one before. I'm not sure if it's shunned, more just a lot of us have never used one. I use a CA myself and it's an all-in-one e-bike solution for me. Rather than have two displays for power and then another for speed, I get them all in one. Plus, riding through a lot of rain and putting a lot on hours on mine, it will still works great. No need for backup batteries, the one button interface makes it easy to change most everything about it, plus you can even tweak the shunt settings to really use it anywhere that you like with larger shunts for say a electric car for example. I can read it at night, I've ridden in temperatures that range from 10F (-12C) all the way up to 110F (43C) and it always works like a charm. I can even fine tune the power usage so that the power used by the meter itself or the variable temperature outside doesn't affect long term readings.

I'm sure the other meters work just fine, but for e-bike, the CA seems more designed for it, where as the others just seem more like "meter" meters that isn't really specialized towards what I would use it for.

The waterproofing of my speed controller is my current project...so, seeing that waterproofing Can Be Done is reassuring...

Though I'm curious; how much use have you gotten from the CA in electric car style setups? Given that it limits to less than 200Ah per "trip", hasn't that proven a hindrance to measurements? Further, a couple of my upcoming trips are nearly 400km long, though it looks like the CA is limited to under 200km per trip? Guess I need to dig into what "trip" means (ie: distance in a day, distance between stops, etc...).

Also, it looks like in order to pull logs from the CA, one must find and purchase an "RS232 level shifting circuit" ... never done that before, so I have to wonder what's involved in that process.

 

[Drunkskunk]

It seems, for just a little bit more initial effort, the eLogger would be a great choice.

I agree, it is a great choice for a meter. I said before when they came here posting they were soon to release it that they had my money the day they released one capable of handling my needed 84V peak. I'm still waiting with money in hand. I'd love to be able to do all of the things it would do, but it won't at the voltage I need.

But I also run my CA to limit my controller to 20A to protect the batteries. it also is sets the LVC to what ever I need for the battery of the moment, and I can set the speed limit to 20mph to make it legal when letting a frend ride it. (It will do 35mph+, and I don't know yet how much + there is ) I can just set it and forget it. I don't have to think about it again untill I want to change it. I make it work for me the way I want, not me working for it.

The CA gives me the information I need while riding at a single glance, without having to do the math in my head.

The Elogger would be better for logging more data, and be more usefull after the ride to analize how things are working out on any given setup. The CA can do it in it's current release with the right connections, but the Elogger gives more data

The CA and the Elogger aren't realy compeditors. They overlap on a lot of functions, but are specalized for diffrent things.

 

[knightmb]

The waterproofing of my speed controller is my current project...so, seeing that waterproofing Can Be Done is reassuring...

Though I'm curious; how much use have you gotten from the CA in electric car style setups? Given that it limits to less than 200Ah per "trip", hasn't that proven a hindrance to measurements? Further, a couple of my upcoming trips are nearly 400km long, though it looks like the CA is limited to under 200km per trip? Guess I need to dig into what "trip" means (ie: distance in a day, distance between stops, etc...).

Also, it looks like in order to pull logs from the CA, one must find and purchase an "RS232 level shifting circuit" ... never done that before, so I have to wonder what's involved in that process.

Your right, the 199.9 limit will have to be reset before discharge, though besides the very expensive electric cars, not many will do over 200 miles on a single charge. From what I've seen, it's for the small NEV and smaller electric car conversions that use the lead acid batteries. Maybe not the best, but that was a while back in the 2.0 days of CA, I'm not sure what has changed in the new version or if those limits have been removed,upgraded, etc. That would be a Justin question.

 

[Gow864]

I have both a CA and Wattsup meter. The CA is a real e-meter gives me all of the info i need to know. I use the wattsup meter on my charger, it gives me wall to wheel data. I would not use it as an e-meter, it's just a handy "in line multimeter". I have a the CA-HC running on my converted Suzuki TC125 (Mars 3001, Kelly KBL48301 and 16S TSLFP040), having this meter has certainly changed my riding style, i a lot more economical now.

Gow.

 

[Gordon]

After giving it a lot of thought and considering everyone's valuable opinions I've ordered a Watts Up meter. I think it will satisfy my needs for now.

I am taking the lack of water resistance to heart. I am either going to glue up a small Plexiglas case for it or else go crazy with a tube of sillycone sealant. I may just cover the the top with some clear vinyl sheeting that wraps down the sides. I'll post a picture when I get it done so you can all have a good laugh.