cyclone questions

daddz

daddz

100 W
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
102
Location
under the sun and still above the dirt, in the mid
ok i have spent the last few weeks reading about batteries and lipo etc, now i have some questions that i couldnt really find a direct answer for. thanks anyone who can help.
q1. cyclone 500w 24v motor, standard controller, what is the largest amount of amps i can run?
q2. i have seen 14v batteries that could be used to make a pack, can the cyclone24v500w take 28v?
q3. i live on the top end of town, meaning that everything from my house us downhill to get to, that also means the return is uphill all the way, mostly a gentle slope, but 1 hill ( the last ) is maybe 2k constant 15 or more degree hill, what battery type pack etc would best suit? bike is maybe 45kg with batteries etc (trike) im around 88 kg, and i would like to get 30kays plus distance. ( that would give me maybe 2 days with heaps of running around) :)
any recommendations for battery sellers, im in australia. im looking at alibaba.com to find a pack or the pieces to build one.
cheers and thanks
 
daddz said:
ok i have spent the last few weeks reading about batteries and lipo etc, now i have some questions that i couldnt really find a direct answer for. thanks anyone who can help.
q1. cyclone 500w 24v motor, standard controller, what is the largest amount of amps i can run?
q2. i have seen 14v batteries that could be used to make a pack, can the cyclone24v500w take 28v?
q3. i live on the top end of town, meaning that everything from my house us downhill to get to, that also means the return is uphill all the way, mostly a gentle slope, but 1 hill ( the last ) is maybe 2k constant 15 or more degree hill, what battery type pack etc would best suit? bike is maybe 45kg with batteries etc (trike) im around 88 kg, and i would like to get 30kays plus distance. ( that would give me maybe 2 days with heaps of running around) :)
any recommendations for battery sellers, im in australia. im looking at alibaba.com to find a pack or the pieces to build one.
cheers and thanks
Click to expand...

I have 4 ebikes and 2 of them have 360w 24v internal controller Cyclone motors. While I don't know about the 500w it is likely very simular. My 360w motors will draw as high as 760w under full load up hills. I can't tell you what the amp draw is but if you devide 740w by 24v it's 30+a. i was using SLA packs at the time so it's very likely the voltage was below 24v. In that case the amps would have been higher. I think the 500 has the same controller as the 360w so I am guessing the controller is ether a 30a or 35a controller.

I have used 24v lifepo4 packs on the motors with no problem. The lifepo4 packs fresh off the charger is 29.2v. While I don't know the max voltage they will handle be carful about the max voltage of the batteries. A 14v pack may (likely) be much higher when fresh off the charger.
 
Don't quote me on this, but I believe others have reported that the internal controllers use 35V caps. If so, then a 24V battery with higher peak voltage should be okay, just keep it below ~30V. Your batteries will need to supply a lot of current, at least 30A, 40A would be better.
 
dumbass said:
daddz said:
ok i have spent the last few weeks reading about batteries and lipo etc, now i have some questions that i couldnt really find a direct answer for. thanks anyone who can help.
q1. cyclone 500w 24v motor, standard controller, what is the largest amount of amps i can run?
q2. i have seen 14v batteries that could be used to make a pack, can the cyclone24v500w take 28v?
q3. i live on the top end of town, meaning that everything from my house us downhill to get to, that also means the return is uphill all the way, mostly a gentle slope, but 1 hill ( the last ) is maybe 2k constant 15 or more degree hill, what battery type pack etc would best suit? bike is maybe 45kg with batteries etc (trike) im around 88 kg, and i would like to get 30kays plus distance. ( that would give me maybe 2 days with heaps of running around) :)
any recommendations for battery sellers, im in australia. im looking at alibaba.com to find a pack or the pieces to build one.
cheers and thanks
Click to expand...

I have 4 ebikes and 2 of them have 360w 24v internal controller Cyclone motors. While I don't know about the 500w it is likely very simular. My 360w motors will draw as high as 760w under full load up hills. I can't tell you what the amp draw is but if you devide 740w by 24v it's 30+a. i was using SLA packs at the time so it's very likely the voltage was below 24v. In that case the amps would have been higher. I think the 500 has the same controller as the 360w so I am guessing the controller is ether a 30a or 35a controller.

I have used 24v lifepo4 packs on the motors with no problem. The lifepo4 packs fresh off the charger is 29.2v. While I don't know the max voltage they will handle be carful about the max voltage of the batteries. A 14v pack may (likely) be much higher when fresh off the charger.
Click to expand...



bold , so the largest amps i can run is 30-35?
i am also considering sla using 6x 12v 12amp batteries wired up to give 36amp at 24v or 6x 12v 15amp to give 45amp 24v, i can do those combos and save about 4kg over the 2 12v 18amp batteries i already have.

i also have some old 12v12amp batteries that i was thinking of hooking up to the 18ampers so that i can join them in when i am coming home ( i dont really care if they dont last long ) but will they damage the main batteries?
i should have a budget of around $500. in the next week or 2
 
bold , so the largest amps i can run is 30-35?
i am also considering sla using 6x 12v 12amp batteries wired up to give 36amp at 24v or 6x 12v 15amp to give 45amp 24v, i can do those combos and save about 4kg over the 2 12v 18amp batteries i already have.

i also have some old 12v12amp batteries that i was thinking of hooking up to the 18ampers so that i can join them in when i am coming home ( i dont really care if they dont last long ) but will they damage the main batteries?
i should have a budget of around $500. in the next week or 2[/quote]


You can use any AH size you like as long as it's larger then the amperage draw and of course the bigger the better. I would not try running anything below 18ah. Believe me you will blow through 18ah quickly. FYI, Cyclone USA does not recommend running lead on the 500w motors. Personally I thing it BS but that's what they say. Remember when building a pack keep the batteries the same size. if you mix battery sizes (say 12ah with 18ah) the end result is only 12ah because the smaller batteries will poop out and that all she wrote. You can set them up so as to run the bigger packs first and then switch over to the smaller packs. Because they are different sizes this is a better way then trying to run all at the same time.

I ran on twin 18ah packs. ! pack could carry me for about 10 to 15 miles when new. 1 Lifepo4 pack (20ah 24v) could carry me 20 to 30 miles. 1 lifepo4 20ah pack is 15lbs. and 1 18ah SLA is 32lbs. When you start looking for new packs consider Thunder Sky lifepo4 packs. I have 4 of these that I run on my bikes now. You can series connect them for a 24v 20ah pack. Being a newbi you may want to consider the ones with the balancers on them. A little more money but it will be worth it to you. By the way my packs are 2 years old and I am still charging with an SLA battery charger and no I don't have any balancers or LVC. I do not recommend this just saying what I am doing.
http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74

EDIT: I do not recommend the so called "SMART" chargers they sell. I bought one and it over charged one battery and under charged the other. Real crap if you ask me!
 
$500 won't buy you much in the way of batteries - I would recommend EMTB.com.au for batteries, best price in Aus for headway cells/packs, not small format 18650's that are a PITA with poor spot welding etc etc. I made up my own pack with Konion cells, I ride 15K's and use up about 10Ah or so @ 400W average. Would I SOC match and solder 96 18650's again...? I don't know. LiPo is also the go on here, but for a noob with batteries - I wouldn't be jumping in straight away with the most volitile battery chemistry imaginable (says the person whose first cyclone pack was Lithium COBALT from laptop batteries!)

SLA - ugh. Wouldn't use it on a cyclone setup over 180W. Tried it, waste of time. I had some 12V 10AH (CSB HR1234's) that I got for free (still in date, good capacity, but the voltage saaaaaaaaaaaaagged.

If you want 30K's on a 500W setup - you probably need at least 30AH of Lithium, or (cough!) 45-50AH of lead. This depends on exactly how fast you feel you need to go.
 
thanks :D that gives me some good info. i could almost double that amount of money, but being on a pension i want to do it as cheap as i can. as for speed 20-30kmh would be enough, climbing the hill i would be happy with a top of 10kay. i can travel an extra 5 kays or so and just stay on a gentle uphill slope, i tend to do this on the nice days, the guy i brought my motor from sells set up packs, but they are 10amp, i could almost afford 2 of those, to make 20amp. they are setup with balancers etc, but a bit pricey in my mind.
 
Have a look at http://www.pingbattery.com 20 ah $344 us plus $75 us shipping, the 30 ah may be more suitable for you.

With these types of motors/ drive systems, you need to keep the motor around 80% full revs , by selecting the correct gears, to get the best range out of it.
 
500 dollars will get you lipo rc packs and charger. You just need to learn how to use them. There is no better battery for price weight and performance. Just not great for noobs. I have read alot about lipo's and even though im a newbie to ebikes and batteries i have decided to order these packs.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9176&Product_Name=Turnigy_5000mAh_6S_20C_Lipo_Pack

I run the 1200 watt cyclone with sla's voltage sag is huge and i cant use the cyclone to its potential, Cant wait for Lipo power,range and weight.
 
i am looking into all possibilities. i have found these,
* 24V, 10Ahr NiMH battery pack
* Dimensions 300*60*60
* Weight 3.5kg (approx)

for sale, he claims unused so i have made an offer for the 2 packs he has. would under $150 be ok for those^? i havnt offered that much yet, but if i know the real value then i can make a fair offer.

and i am chatting with a chinese company right now on msn about different size packs. she just doesnt seem to be in a hurry to give me a price. she has asked a lot of questions that i dont understand yet :? like this
for the 10c discharge rate,i want to ask you is transient current or long time current?
i said a long time i guess :wink:


and the rc batteries could be the go if i can find more info about them, that is easy enough for me to understand, since my death learning is not as easy, seems i lost some brain function from being dead for 27 minutes
 
these where either $316 or $410 with a charger and $106 delivery, very tempting :D

2. Product Specification

Item Specification Notes
Type of Cell Fe system Lithium ion battery
Nominal output Voltage 24V
Max. output Voltage 29.4V
Min. output Voltage 18.4V
Discharge Capacity 20Ah
Max. Discharge Current 25A
Charging Time 11 Hr
Charging Voltage 29.4V±0.2V
Charging Current 2A±0.2A
Discharge Operating:–20℃～45℃
Charge Operating:0℃～40℃
Protection circuit Max.current:25A
Charger Out put:29.4V/2A
leaving factory voltage 29.4V±0.2V


edit the right prices
the LiFePO4 battery price is 316usd,LiMn2O4 battery price is 284USD. plus $106 for shipping, these are us prices, but they still seem pretty good to me.
any advice welcome
 
Those would be the green feepay batteries?

These were designed to be used as battery backup on emergency lighting, they are D cell batteries with a good AH rating, but only at low C rates (discharge rates). They have turned up around the traps before - they are used in some models of the long 1 X 40W emergency lights you see in carparks etc. I'll see if I can find the model number for you, I came across then ages ago.
 
thanks heath, i may have to cancel my bid on them anyway, when i asked him about a charger, he mentioned that the wires had no connections, which wasnt in the add. but what value would they be to me? would they be worth spending $75 on them for a reserve pack?
 
On my 900W Cyclone kit I have a Ping 36volt 15ah lifepo4 battery. Now my trip to work is a little bit hilly and is 14.3 miles exactly.

I am averaging 26 mins to do 14.3miles and only using 9.3ah according to my turnigy watt meter.

Mostly I pull 25 amps but can peak at 35amps on hills, the system seems to handle it really well. Don't go for SLA batteries get a decent Lifepo4 pack. I will be upgrading to the Headway 12ah 3.2 volt batteries soon and making a 48v 12ah pack as I could do with the extra amps up the hills.

I found Ping quite expensive compared to Vpower though so give them a look.
 
Vpower had a pretty bad reputation on the board a few years ago, from some reports they have improved, and from others - they havn't.

I think one of the problems with them was crap cells that didn't meet the spec, bad spot welds, poor construction etc etc.
 
daddz said:
everything keeps pointing back to ping, i am now thinking 2 15amps, 1 for going and 1 for returning, or both together for a quick trip. if it wasnt for the hill im on i am pretty sure 15amps would be ample
Click to expand...

Have you ever read Cycome USA performance testing. I thought I remembered a test that Jim did with a 500w and a single 10ah lifepo4 pack but I couldn't find it on his site. But maybe I just over looked it. I remember he said the pack performed well ...take a look

http://www.cyclone-usa.com/performance.php
 
thanks dumbass, i will go look. the reason i keep going high amps is due to the hill i live on,it starts at around a 12 degree climb quickly goes to around 15 and near the top the last 50 or so meters is the killer. i want to try and avoid killing the batteries by over working them, i am only guessing at those figures but if anything i under estimated them.
24V20Ah
Resin Board+PVC 8S8P
115*140*225/75*220*225
＜5.8KG
26650
$228
or
24V15Ah Resin Board+PVC 8S6P
165*75*225/85*140*225
＜4.5KG
26650
$182

not sure about these, they look like the ping
OSN Power Tech Co.,Ltd
http://www.osnpower.com
any one with knowledge about these? the prices look good to me, they include a 2amp charger

edit.
he kept saying they could change the bms on the 24v20ah to give 24v30ah with out battery damage? how can a 20 amp battery supply 30amp by altering the bms?
the pic he showed me on msn was like a ping, i couldnt find it on the site
 
If it were me, I would stay away from battery vendors no one has heard of.

Lots of posts on here about Ping, a few failures , which is normal for just about any product but I have never read any bad stories about pings after sales service,
so , I would go with ping 30ah, at around $570us, delivered.
 
Get a quote from EMTB.com.au - very competitive - I priced a battery with identical specs and its cheaper than ping, with a higher current charger.
 
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