Dead Currie IZIP battery...next step?

[Blue Proteus]

So in 2011 I bought a Currie IZIP Zuma. Loved the bike, but in 2012 moved to Germany for a year and didn't bring it with me.
Asked family members in the states to ride the bike occasionally to keep the battery from discharging too much, but it happened anyway.

Current status is a completely dead battery pack, with a volt meter reading of absolutely nothing. There's no way I'm going to cough up almost $800.00 for a new pack from Currie, so what are my options, if any?

Thanks

 

[Matt Gruber]

i'd find out what cells are in the pack, and try to nurse them back to life.
for example, i was able to recover half of my 0 volt konions 18650 limn.
other types might all be bad, or all good.

 

[ambroseliao]

Post some pictures of the bike and battery and tell us what type of chemistry is used in the battery: lead-acid, NiMH, Lithium, LiFePO4, etc. Also, what voltage. You can probably replace it for less.

 

[Blue Proteus]

Thanks for the replies.
The bike:

The battery:

Charger port in:

Battery port out:

Battery is 36V11.4Ah 410Wh Lithium-ion Battery Pack

I'm probably going to take it apart next since it's dead anyway.

 

[ambroseliao]

The pack will probably be a block of tab welded 18650 LiFePO4 or LiPO cells. You would need very specialized equipment in order to tab weld new cells into the same configuration. You may have better luck going with a 3rd party 36V pack and somehow utilize the power connectors that go into the rear rack for compatibility. Be sure to take pix of the internals including any numbers on the cells...

 

[friendly1uk]

They might be round now, but that is a square box.
When they say 36v li-ion, I presume they mean 37v 10s. So $150 worth of HK fits it.

 

[999zip999]

Much care must be taken with H.K. lipo as not plug and play but hobby battery with fire risk and special charging needs. Careful..

 

[wesnewell]

I'd just fix it, but if you don't want to screw with it, this may work for you.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/After-the-racks-lithium-battery-36V-12A-with-Charger-Al-case-BMS/609304496.html

 

[dogman dan]

The bike won't particularly care what 36v bike battery you give it. It will run, and the bike isn't a higher powered motor that will require a battery as strong as a 20c RC lico pack. So just about any 10 ah 36v ebike battery will do. More ah than your original pack might be really nice though, if you like longer rides. Or, if you want to make your next battery last a long time.

The only real issue, is rigging whatever adapter is needed to connect it to the controller. You will still spend some money, but not as much as $800, unless you buy something really nice.

 

[Blue Proteus]

Well, took apart the battery pack, and I think I'm in over my head. I can't even see what type the cells are, as they're glued into plastic bracket/holders that haven't wanted to separate too well.

I've included pics for those interested, but I'm thinking of going with a 3rd party replacement pack.

 

[DrkAngel]

If 12 banks of 6 cells ... appears to be a form of LiFePO4 ... 12s6p for 36V.
If 10 banks of 6 cells ... should be a Li-ion variation ... 10s6p for 36V.

BMS appears to have 11 balance wires + main pos and neg.
If continuity tester says reds are connected and blacks are connected then these are Li-ion - 10s.
If no continuity then Likely LiFePO4 - 12s.

Reputedly cells are of Samsung manufacture and 1900mAh.

Test individual banks of cells.
BMS would shut off if total voltage is below a certain voltage.
Try to charge each bank to 3V+, then retry charging through charge port.
11 wire connector should unplug, test voltages and charge through this connector ... if you can't contact ends of cells.

 

[Blue Proteus]

Thanks...I don't think I can get to the ends of the cells since that whole plastic grid that holds them is so difficult to work with.

The 11 wire connector you mention is the one on the right side in the last photo, correct?

How do I charge to 3v without going over? In fact, what would I use to do the charging?

 

[DrkAngel]

Thanks...I don't think I can get to the ends of the cells since that whole plastic grid that holds them is so difficult to work with.

The 11 wire connector you mention is the one on the right side in the last photo, correct?

How do I charge to 3v without going over? In fact, what would I use to do the charging?

11 wire? - yes.
Unplug 11 wire, if possible.
Test voltages between wires.
Red wire Pos black neg (usually)
Test for voltage between red and "BAT+" red on BMS, if any voltage then 12 banks LiFePO4.

An iMax B6 or similar would be ideal, might have to set it to NiCd at low amps (and closely monitor) to get charging started.
Any low amperage transformer might work... just to get voltage above 3V. Most Li-ion chargers-BMS will recognize cells if above that voltage.
Li-ions hold very little energy below 3.5V, LiFePO4 below 3V, so either it will gain voltage quickly - or not at all.
12V trickle <1A! charger?

Apply 3V+ to adjacent wires, or
6V + to 1st and 3rd wire, then 3rd and 5th etc., or
9V+ to 1st and 4th, 0r
12V+ to 1st and 5th, then 5th and 9th

Just get voltage above 3V-3.5V per bank-cells then replug and attach oem charger.

 

[999zip999]

First where do you live ? Do you have a M.M. ?

 

[Blue Proteus]

First where do you live ? Do you have a M.M. ?

I live in NE Nevada, near Elko. That places me about 200+ miles from any bike shops that deal with electric bikes or batteries.
Yes, I do have a multi-meter.

Here's a question:

I'm assuming that some of you here really know a lot about this stuff, and might be able to do the trickle charge thing and bring this back ti life.
Would anybody out there be interested in my shipping this to you to see if you could fix it? I'd be willing to pay the shipping and pay you for your time if it's not *too* high a charge.

 

[agniusm]

Looks like 6p10s here. Have you checked voltages between black white, white pink ... brown red wires? I think if its below minimum spec of the cell better of getting 60 cells of some kind. The choice is good and the price will not bite if you keep the enclosure and just swap these cells with same 4.2v ones

 

[Blue Proteus]

Looks like 6p10s here. Have you checked voltages between black white, white pink ... brown red wires? I think if its below minimum spec of the cell better of getting 60 cells of some kind. The choice is good and the price will not bite if you keep the enclosure and just swap these cells with same 4.2v ones

I haven't tried that yet. So each pair on that multi-wire connector should include a positive and a negative?

 

[agniusm]

Looks like 6p10s here. Have you checked voltages between black white, white pink ... brown red wires? I think if its below minimum spec of the cell better of getting 60 cells of some kind. The choice is good and the price will not bite if you keep the enclosure and just swap these cells with same 4.2v ones

I haven't tried that yet. So each pair on that multi-wire connector should include a positive and a negative?

Doesn't matter. It will alow you to test infividual cell voltages. After that you will know if ther is damage or not. If vells were sitting below recommended lower voltage I would get them swaped rather try and revive them as suggested here as they would be damaged.

 

[999zip999]

Check each cell group for voltage and post.
1. 3.6
2. 3.4
3. 3.0
Ect.

First sense wire and next sense wire. Then move probes putting probes as neg. Now is pos. And pos is in new wire. Or each wire can be pos. Or neg. Just have mm om high enough for voltage. For cells or pack voltage.
Maybe somebody can help walk you thru it.

 

[dnmun]

do you know if you charger is pushing current? did you measure the voltage on the output of the charger? looks like the charger plug spot has a buncha scratches like it was twisted around in circles and the pins ground grooves into the plastic so the pins may have been damaged by the amateur charging and that could be the cause of it not charging.

it is hard to tell if you have 9S or 10S but i think it is only 9S6P and they call it 36V for 9x3.7V.

you can unplug the sense wire plug from the BMS and measure the cell voltage of each cell in series by measuring the voltage between adjacent pins. the lowest, the B- spot is on the black sense wire and the B+ is on the red one at the top. do that and list the voltages here. measure with the 20C DC scale on your DVM.

 

[DrkAngel]

Battery Diagnosis

Step #1
Test voltage of cells-banks

Balance connector appears to be a 10s, 11 wires connecting 10 banks of cells.
Unplug from circuit board - if possible. (Otherwise, you must access back side of balance board.)

Using volt meter:
1. set to 20V DC
2. touch black voltmeter lead to black wire and red lead to white wire (tabs on side of connector usually provides best contact point)
3. record voltage as - 1s = #.##V
4. test next bank, black lead on white wire and red lead on pink wire, record voltage as - 2s = #.##V
5. repeat for all 10s
6. Post results


Now, there might be enough information for a basic-preliminary diagnosis of cell state-condition.

 

[Blue Proteus]

Thanks! Will give this a try.

 

[Evilgeniuselectronics805]

Ok so I took apart my izip battery and noticed that it had a great balancing board on their (BMS). So I took it off and put it on a different battery pack of 10S8P. Anywho!!!! This is where it took a turn for the worse. Everything was all connected and soldered all up ready to be wrapped. So I go to test the charging terminals and oops SPARKED!!!! Now it does not want to charge. Any ideas??????? Thanks

 

[DrkAngel]

I would think, obviously, that you hooked up something wrong.

Sadly, without pictures of before and after your mod, it might be near impossible to advise you.