Descendence bikes open-source electric bike frame

Oh I took the crappy air shock off I hate air shocks I installed a fox vanilla keeping the weight as low as possible really wakes the handling up , when I raced I would as most racers never race with a full tank just enough to do the 6 or 7 laps because of this . To me this is very important but it may not be to you or your goal or your needs but it drives me crazy if I could I would put the battery under the bottom bracket !!!!
 
look back a few pages about the battery location- we did lots of debating and even some experimentation with the battery location, and came to the conclusion around the knees is the best spot for it. dont worry, i was adamant that around the BB was the best spot for it, and all my first designs had the battery there, but after actually trying it out, threw that idea out. if you dont jump it's ok having it that low, but if you get in the air it tries to kill you.

that thing is gonna be really,really strange with boxxers and a 24" on the back man...your head angle will go out but the bottom bracket height will shoot right up and your reach will shorten considerably. you're gonna look like bender in 1998...why not just get a set of 160mm travel fox 36's or something? you wont completely destroy the geo then (you'll only slightly destroy it).

or better yet, get a better frame.
 
A better frame ? OK I am listening what do you think would be a better frame ?? for a low power elec mt bike ? primarily to be used on purpose built Mt bike trails ? like we find in are st parks
 
Thank you for putting this thread up and coping the criticism that comes with doing something unexpected. You've taken it like a champ!

Interesting result with the battery positioning, inclined to agree with it, might have to try different battery positioning with Q76R I will be putting together in the future.

Few questions, apologies in advance if I have just missed them:

How much of the battery box is structural?
Are the bolts at the top side of the box holding it on?
Are the sides made from steel sheet or ali?
What program have you used to make this? (interested in taking the frame and altering it)
 
rider95 said:
A better frame ? OK I am listening what do you think would be a better frame ?? for a low power elec mt bike ? primarily to be used on purpose built Mt bike trails ? like we find in are st parks
Click to expand...

It just seems like it'd be really weird geometry, especially with long forks. It was only designed for 90mm travel forks, slap 200mm travel boxxers on there and it'll rake out like a chopper. Plus it only had 100mm rear travel didn't it?
John bozi (i think) on this thread made a really nice conversion with a mod trials rear wheel and a set of 150ish mm forks, on a dually frame with pretty decent trail geometry, check his bike out. A decent single pivot trail frame like an orange 66 or something like that would make an awesome conversion.
 
Lurkin said:
Thank you for putting this thread up and coping the criticism that comes with doing something unexpected. You've taken it like a champ!

Interesting result with the battery positioning, inclined to agree with it, might have to try different battery positioning with Q76R I will be putting together in the future.

Few questions, apologies in advance if I have just missed them:

How much of the battery box is structural?
Are the bolts at the top side of the box holding it on?
Are the sides made from steel sheet or ali?
What program have you used to make this? (interested in taking the frame and altering it)
Click to expand...

The box is .9mm stainless steel, and is welded into the frame (it's welded along the seam between the box and the rectangular tubes of the 'top tube' on the inside face of the box). The bolts are only holding the lid on, which is 3mm Ali sheet. The seat mast thing is also held on by bolts, so you can pull it all off easily.
I used solidworks to design it, but to be honest it was a challenging build; if you've never made a frame I don't think I'd start with one like this! Cutting the top or down tube out of an existing frame and welding in a battery box would be much less work. Iv seen some really nice conversions of giant dh yeam frames. I recon an old iron horse Sunday would work really well too- the shock is inside the seat tube so in a good spot for allowing room for the batteries. If I had the time/money I'd get one and put the battery oriented North-South under the seat.
 
Why are you using stainless steel? are you going to cook hamburgers on it ?? what is the need for heavy, expensive stainless you plan on leaving it in the rain?? next you will stuff it with more battery then you need making it even more heavy , with the weight on the top tube it will be a pig for any kind of trail riding . Never carry more battery then you need remember a quick charger weighs a lot less then battery's, , if you just use it on the street it will be ok but even street bikes carry the weight low for better handling . And if your not going to do any real trail riding why the need for rear suspension??? you are flat wrong on carry the weight high up 50yr of motorcycle R-D has proven you wrong . Your fab skills are out standing that's why you used stainless ,its harder to work .
 
Dude what's your problem? Staino ain't hard to work with unless you're a gumby and is cheaper than chromolly. You havnt brought anything meaningful to this conversation and you clearly know very little about fabrication or bikes in general, alright I do sympathize with your ethos of lighter weight.
Please stop hijacking the thread with crap.
 
madm3chanic said:
Dude what's your problem? Staino ain't hard to work with unless you're a gumby and is cheaper than chromolly. You havnt brought anything meaningful to this conversation and you clearly know very little about fabrication or bikes in general, alright I do sympathize with your ethos of lighter weight.
Please stop hijacking the thread with crap.
Click to expand...
+1
 
madm3chanic said:
so its not yet running cause of my throttle issues (turns out the one i got isnt plug n play with the CA so instead of attempting internal wiring fuckery im just sending it back for a replacement...........
Click to expand...

How do you intend to connect your throttle? to controller or to CA?

Is there such a thing for a throttle to be plug and play connected directly to the CA?

It took me ages to find appendix A

file.php


Cutting out a bit of wire soldering to another is not really that muh frockery.

Just hope this might help you, especially waiting weeks for delivery.

EDIT this information was only for V3 Retrofit to Older Controller
this was old information that worked for me sorry.
 
Wow that's awesome dude, I didn't see that anywhere in the user guide. Thanks for that :)
I was under the impression that if your controller was CA compatible, if you plugged a throttle into the CA then it over-rode the controllers signal.
So if not, what the hell is the default CA throttle for? The CA can't be used as a controller in itself, after all.
So all that jazz in the CA user guide about throttle setup is actually for some other situation? Very confusing...
 
]did a little googling and found where you got that 'appendix A' exerpt from- its a different version of the CA UUG than mine. mine does not have that in it at all. i have no idea which is the more current version.

so anyway i did the pin-swap on the JST plugs and...nothing. now the CA doesnt even register that the throttle is attached (the little graphic bar doesnt move up and down as you engage the throttle).

here's what i did-

20151221_182534 - Copy.jpg

pulled out the green pin on the CA side of the ca-controller connector; pulled out the white wire of the throttle connector on the throttle side; put the green wire into the place where the white was was. nada.

sorry for the terrible pic, my mouse-handwriting skills are at about grade 1 i think.
 
oooo i just worked it out- i put the green wire into the throttle output plug instead if the controllers throttle input plug.

alas it wouldnt work even if i did it correctly because the throttle input plug is four pin and my throttle output is three pin so the JST plugs dont even work.

im getting so damn frustrated with this. i have a controller with a plug to go DIRECTLY to the CA, i have a grin tech throttle, both the grin tech website and the CA UGG i have tells me that the throttle just plugs directly into the CA and the CA into the controller, and it STILL doesnt work. what the hell?

on another matter why are these things still made with these tiny, fragile little JST plugs? surely someone should have come up with a slightly more robust system by now? the JST plugs work, but they would be pretty easy to crack or yank wires out of lugs.
 
none of that wire-pulling out jazz makes sense to me anyway- straight off the grin tech website-



none of this makes any sense to me at all.
-if i pull out the CA's throttle override cable and send it to the controller's throttle input signal, then the throttle itself still needs to be plugged into the controller directly (contradicting the "layout strategy" of the CAv3). that doesnt work for me anyway tho, as i have the grintech throttle ;/
-if i put the CA's throttle override signal cable to the throttle side of the throttle plug and the throttle itself is plugged into the CA, then the throttle does not work any more (because it physically cant- there is no signal cable connected to it any more).
-if the throttle over-ride cable is sent to the CA throttle input plug, then im yanking things out of the controller and sending them back to the controller (but that isnt what the pic shows, anyway- in the pic the green wire has been inserted into a male JST plug; the CA throttle input is a female JST pug).
-if i did exactly what is shown in the pic in the UGG that Bozi posted, then the throttle would not physically be connected to anything at all any more, by any of its 3 wires. there would just be a green wire going to the CA's throttle input plug and no physical connection to the throttle whatsoever.

that UGG has got to be an old version of the CA, please tell me. otherwise im going frocking crazy.
 
madm3chanic said:
did a little googling and found where you got that 'appendix A' exerpt from- its a different version of the CA UUG than mine. mine does not have that in it at all. i have no idea which is the more current version.
Click to expand...
Sigh... why not just go to product source?
So simple.

If you go to the manufacturer's site (Grin Tech) you will find a page for the V3 with explanations, software, and firmware. You will also find links to the newest Unofficial Guide in two places: on both the Grin Tech V3 web page as well as on the Grin Tech Document Download page.

The version is on the top right of the cover and in the footer of every page....
 
madm3chanic said:
Yep that's what I did first. Didn't work tho :( something is broken.
Click to expand...
Ok - looks like the security certificate didn't get properly updated when Endless-Sphere.com was re-hosted a while back this year. This broke the link on the Grin site.

Browser Error Page said:
This Connection is Untrusted

You have asked Firefox to connect securely to http://www.endless-sphere.com, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
...
http://www.endless-sphere.com uses an invalid security certificate.

The certificate is only valid for endless-sphere.com
Click to expand...
Anyhow - as the pop-up says, the 'www.' in the URL is throwing things off ('www.endless-sphere.com' vs 'endless-sphere.com').
If you erase 'www.' in the URL of the browser address field and hit return, the certificate will be valid, and the browser will be happy.

I will speak with Justin tomorrow and either get the Endless-sphere certificates squared away and/or the Grin Tech link revised.
EDIT - links repaired.
 
OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD I GOT IT WORKING!


wowzers...i was expecting it to be underwhelming, but it is absoutely bloody amazing! i can make it do wheelies if i lean back a little while accelerating, it steers awesomely, the geo is absolutely spot on, the suspension is absolutely bloody stunning, and i was pretty much jumping it (small jumps, mind you ;p) within minutes of turning it on :)))))))

the really slack head angle and long chainstays make it feel increadibly stable, but it steers and corners like a 125cc dirt bike. and that suspension...wow. its so much more supple than a DH bike, i guess because of the weight on the front triangle.

within 10 minutes of riding it, i peeled a dual ply 2.7" minion clean off a 32mm rim. i have never, ever done that before!


i think il definitely have to get re-gen brake adaptors on my code's but- they started to fade from the heat fairly quickly. another thing i have never done! so stoked right now!


so interesting thing- the CA is the problem. once i plugged the crystalite throttle into the controller, it went awesomely, untill i plug in the CA to monitor the battery...then it wont go above 14 watts. bit weird.
 
well that was a fun first charge! i got about 45minutes-ish of fecking about out of the battery before the BMS told me to stop.

peeled off a tire, taco'd my front rim that lived quite happily on my dirt jump bike for about 10 years, ate shit trying to be a boob, and generally had a bloody awesome time!

12404542_10153966485181535_923595597_n - Copy.jpg

you can tell by my big shit-eating grin that i had a good time, despite the bark off the arm :)

i started playing around with tire pressures and tire combo's- i changed the front tire from the minion to a big old 2.8" intense DH tire from the early 00's that has a moto-type tread; i started with 28psi front and back and fairly quickly let out my back to about 22 cause i lost all rear traction. the front i havnt really messed with yet cause my battery went flat and i didnt really care cause i was too busy doing skids and wheelies; the front felt ok at 28, tho i really had to adjust the way i steered (sat on the battery box with my inside foot out and weight over the front wheel, had to throttle steer like a moto).

what tires/pressures y'all running?
 
:D :twisted:

What a relief! Am truly stoked for you. As much as I wasted your time trying to help you, at least I made you get off your but and play with things. :roll:

Surprised about the front, but not really if you were throwing this around.

Look forward to some third person vids
 
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