Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

[byebyepetrol]

Lashed the mount and guard onto the bike and took it for a spin.
PAS is AOK. No mis-reads, just smooth power when needed.

The mudguard works. I found the biggest puddles and ploughed into them at speed and the spray is contained. It might look a little "ungainly"
with such a pronounced forward bias but it works.

I'll make a support for it, it's not going to be durable without one. 4-40 clevises from aeromodelling will be a perfect adjustable mounting too.

 

[Tats]

Loving the mudguard mate-looks very pro.
Met someone on a 250w bike last week but running over 50v battery with cycle analyst. His bike was seriously quick. I think to get more speed once this battery pack bites it, going to 48v battery and 15A controller would be the way to go. Using the cycle analyst to limit things (speed current temp) would be really slick.
The 36v is great but having another 3 or 4 kmh top end assist would be great.
My recent commute times have been 30kmh +/-0.5 kmh incredibly consistent.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Thanks Tats. I'll work out the mudguard mounting system soon.

It's likely the motor could take more V, mine doesn't get hot or even "quite warm".

I reckon I could run 35mm tyres and slightly higher pressures to eke out more top speed.
Or wear my underpants on the outside. We're down to small margins now ;0)

 

[Hombré]

This is all good stuff and last tuesday I received and installed this kit so now have my own experiences with it.

Some good........ some not so.

I know I said I would continue in this thread but have decided to start my own on it.

 

[Hombré]

The assembly; ring halves, circlip and sensor weigh a lot

That's a heavy comment fella :lol:

On that note, the pics on the dillenger site show two different colour circlips, one silver and one black........ I got silver but would prefer black to blend in with my bike theme and will ask them if black is available as described.

Also, if they lace they're own wheels as described then black motors and spokes could easily be made available methinks ?

Before my purchase I did ask them about a black motor and spokes but they said only silver which seems silly to me being that customers love choices and the fact that they're affiliated with http://www.jubecustoms.com.au makes me think that powder coating or painting really shouldn't be an issue...... My motor doesn't even get warm to the touch so covering it is not an issue to me so I'll enquire some more which is now easier that their phone number is on the site 8)

 

[Tats]

This is all good stuff and last tuesday I received and installed this kit so now have my own experiences with it.

Some good........ some not so.

I know I said I would continue in this thread but have decided to start my own on it.

Looking forward to it - I expect to need to do some maintenance over the kits lifetime and fix bits and pieces I break. And this won't be my 1st and only e-bike, the bug has bitten.

 

[Tats]

Thanks Tats. I'll work out the mudguard mounting system soon.

It's likely the motor could take more V, mine doesn't get hot or even "quite warm".

I reckon I could run 35mm tyres and slightly higher pressures to eke out more top speed.
Or wear my underpants on the outside. We're down to small margins now ;0)

I've got 37mm tires but thats not doing much - I reckon I'd have to strip naked, cover myself in vaseline and lie flat in Bonneville style to get more speed without increasing the volts/amps. I've read the cute can take a bit more watts.

 

[Hombré]

The assembly; ring halves, circlip and sensor weigh a lot

That's a heavy comment fella :lol:

On that note, the pics on the dillenger site show two different colour circlips, one silver and one black........ I got silver but would prefer black to blend in with my bike theme and will ask them if black is available as described.

Also, if they lace they're own wheels as described then black motors and spokes could easily be made available methinks ?

Before my purchase I did ask them about a black motor and spokes but they said only silver which seems silly to me being that customers love choices and the fact that they're affiliated with http://www.jubecustoms.com.au makes me think that powder coating or painting really shouldn't be an issue...... My motor doesn't even get warm to the touch so covering it is not an issue to me so I'll enquire some more which is now easier that their phone number is on the site 8)

Note........ this is an edited post with additional thoughts.

 

[roundtoit]

Howdy guys, I have really enjoyed reading this thread and have decided after much procrastination to purchase a Dillinger 250 w 10 Ah battery kit, same as yours I expect.
Should be here in about a week, will start a new thread when it arrives with my thoughts.
Cheers and happy e-biking

 

[Tats]

500km all good - average speed is almost always 29.5 to 30.5 km/h. The consistent top speed on the flat is 33-34 km/h so for this reason I've set the controller with a 34km/h upper assistance limit as anything above this is basically wasted AH.
Would I buy one again - definitely, but....Would I like a little more power - absolutely, but not much or it'd be too quick for the bike path/around town. At most another 3-4 km/h average - no-one deserves to be averaging more than 35 km/h as a commute speed, that's racing in my view.
Dillinger if you are reading this a 48v 10ah battery with suitable a controller option would be great if the motor could take it without overheating.

 

[yellagonga]

Hi, this thread is a good read, thought ide jump in with my simple solution to mounting the PAS.

I cut the center out just snug enough to fit around the base of the crank arm, aligned it using the sensor as a guide so it rotates without wobble, then used plastic putty to hold it in place. Other brands are liquid steel and kneed it steel. It sets rock hard, the plastic disc isn't going anywhere.

On another note, is it normal for the motor to cut out if you pedal too fast? It seems as if the proximity sensor doesn't register the magnet if it moves too fast past it. And is there a speed cut out? The motor has a max speed unloaded, so I'm assuming if you go past this speed the motor provides no assistance?

I have not installed the hand throttle as I have installed it on the wife's bike to help her keep up with me on my road bike and she wants to ride for fitness. Does the hand throttle allow the bike to perform at higher speeds and cadences?

 

[byebyepetrol]

Hi Yellagonga,
That's pretty nifty, thanks for sharing.

I've noticed the "cut-out" effect too. Mine bike peaks out at 37kmh unloaded and while pedalling 35kmh on the flat in calm conditions.
Any attempt at exceeding 35kmh takes a lot of effort.

 

[byebyepetrol]

PAS Malfunction

Yesterday I noticed the PAS didn't seem to register or if it did it seemed to only register for a couple of magnets on the ring.

Assuming it had come away from the mount I tweaked it so the hall effect sensor was at optimal distance from the magnets but no joy.

I had to ride home and to work this am using the throttle grip.

The LED on the sensor now stays permanently on and regardless of how accurately I mount it in relation to the magnets it fails to trigger the motor.
I've turned the system off and on again, removed the battery and re-installed but still no response and the red LED remains lit whereas before it pulsed on
when it registered a magnet.

Anyone had similar experiences?

 

[yellagonga]

PAS Malfunction

Yesterday I noticed the PAS didn't seem to register or if it did it seemed to only register for a couple of magnets on the ring.

Assuming it had come away from the mount I tweaked it so the hall effect sensor was at optimal distance from the magnets but no joy.

I had to ride home and to work this am using the throttle grip.

The LED on the sensor now stays permanently on and regardless of how accurately I mount it in relation to the magnets it fails to trigger the motor.
I've turned the system off and on again, removed the battery and re-installed but still no response and the red LED remains lit whereas before it pulsed on
when it registered a magnet.

Anyone had similar experiences?

it could be residual magnetism in the Reed switch causing it to stay on. Try flipping the proximity sensor around and holding it up to the magnets, so you are sacking the Reed switch back in the other direction to unstuck it. And a light tap, worth a try.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Hi Yellagonga,
Thanks for the tips, but I reckon the hall-effect sensor unit is the culprit; I plugged the old one back in and that worked AOK.

I'll install the old sensor and keep riding...2056km and counting.

 

[Hombré]

Dillinger if you are reading this a 48v 10ah battery with suitable a controller option would be great if the motor could take it without overheating.

I agree........ I'd like to buy another one of these kits if the following 48V-11Ah battery pack can be supplied by Dillinger http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=161

Can someone explain to us why our 250watt motor wouldn't handle that 48V battery pack with ease ?........... I'm a total noob and this is my first kit running at 36V but the motor doesn't even get warm to the touch.

Is it true that these 250watt motors of ours are actually 350watts but limited to power of 250 because of Aussie laws ?......... Is the motor power restricted by the 36V controller which would be overcome with that 48V battery pack or am I just so far off track it's laughable :lol:

BTW......... I'v had this kit now for a month and have documented everything for a review thread which I will post at 2 months.

The charger was of concern to me when charging as it was too hot to hold and to me could be considered on the verge of dangerous........... I had visions of a charger failure/fire resulting in potential battery damage and I wasn't having any of that.
In saying that, I'm no-where near qualified to understand if chargers are capable of BMS or battery pack damage.

To alleviated my paranoia I removed the four rubber grommets covering the 'Phillips head' screws and separated the charger into it's 3 components ( really easy ).

I then carefully removed all the labels and stuck them in the 'User Manual' for future reference.

I then drilled about 100 ( 5 millimeter ) holes in the top and bottom covers then used a 7 millimeter drill bit and reversed the drill to smooth off the rough edges and 'voila', Job done and bugger all heat now......... Looks like a bought one

It's a messy/time consuming job but worth it for peace of mind and charger longevity.

 

[yellagonga]

Hombre, my charger is not hot at all, mine is the 8Ahr battery but I presume the same charger?

I'de be very surprised if the 250watt 36v motor couldn't take 48V. Which would make it produce 444watts at startup. But once it's going, it won't be drawing 444watts so it will cool down. Depends how much load you put on the motor. If a thermal cutout thermistor was included it would probably be OK.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Hot Charger
My charger gets very hot too. Still, it's been like that since delivery in Feb and it still works although I elevate it for better airflow underneath.
The ventilation holes mod sounds like a good idea,just make sure pests can't get inside and ruin your day. Maybe a surface spray of Mortein might help?

PAS
The old PAS installed with a strip of gaffer and works a treat. Not sure why the new one I had simply expired.
Without the "smarts" to diagnose it I can't suggest why it stopped working. It's fully sealed with sealant so moisture ingress wasn't a problem.
Maybe dodgy lead connection? Maybe dry solder joint? Crack in the PCB?

 

[byebyepetrol]

After five months of commuting by electric bike rather than by typical 4-cyl Toyota Corolla shopping trolley,
here's a guesstimate of savings :

Commute is 8km there, 8km back.

Feb 1st to June 25th = 110 commuting days

Car
Parking is free.
Fuel is $AUD 1.75 litre
110x16km = 1760km @ 10km/l = 176 l = $308
Car rego = $550 / 12 x 5 months = $AUD 229
tyres / oil / servicing = to be determined.
Car = $AUD 537


Bike
Parking is free
10Ahr x 36v = 360whr = .36KW
110 charges x .36kw = 39.6KW @ 27.7c / KW = 1096c or
Bike = $AUD 11

It's likely the car is actually more expensive than calculated due to oil / tyres / servicing / insurance

Summary
If you sell your car you''ll most likely save about 500 per 5 months or $AUD100 a month.

 

[merrystein]

BBP,
Good work on the carbon mudguard. Didn't know it was possible to make carbon parts without a big curing oven.
Yes, save that commute money to spend on a more powerful e-bike kit Here in Brissy, workmates talk of saving about $1000 a year in public transport with trips of 15km.
As the charger creates heat, you will actually use more energy/money to recharge.
I did a rough calc (via the house meter) and comes to around 20c to recharge my 36V 9Ah bottle battery. So cheap. Good, that we are talking cents, and not dollars

Sorry to hear about the PAS issue. You might be able to check the PAS with a multi-meter. See what the resistance is across connecting wires as the magnet pass by. Not whether this is detectable this way, or whether the passing magnets just induce a current change.

Have recently bought a Golden Motor DD 250W 36V 26" front hub kit for less than $200 (lucky bidder). Cheap, but heavy (~7kg for wheel). Installed the PAS system, but didn't like the delay for it to kick in, so purely use the throttle now, like on my Solarbike kit. Hub, broke the lugs off my alloy forks on my second test ride, so have made up some torque arms for it. But breakage could be due to washers being too big for inserts in the forks. Have since grind down washers to fit. Replacement forks have not broken yet. This hub sees about 40kmh unloaded, and feels like getting to about 37-38kmh before it cuts out. Tempted on getting a 500W 36V version, but this will only chew up the battery quicker, and less options for riding it legitmately.

Before buying the GM, I was going to buy a Dillenger 250W kit after reading your review. But then I saw the cheap GM kit, and I didn't need another battery.

Now, I have recently bought a Dual Suspension mtb, and am thinking of buying a MXUS 250W 36V geared front hub to that (light at about 3.5kg). Kit does not come with battery, so suits my purpose.

Pity that Dillenger don't do kits without batteries. Suppose it complicates the warrantee and ordering/handling process.

The two different types of chargers I got from Solarbike do not get hot, from what I have noticed. Can still touch them. One has a fan - 2A, the other not (brick-type) - 1.35A. Both take about 4-5 hours to charge a flat 36V 9Ah battery.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Hi Merrystein,
I have to confess I still haven't got around to making a proper mount for the front guard. It's still just gaffered on.
I'll make a front mount and rear guard over the next month or so.

The rear guard (Crud Catcher) isn't very effective, the mud / water
is prevented from hitting the rider but the poor bike cops a drenching.

Sounds like you scored with the GM kit. 37-38kmh is fantastic. I dream of getting 50kmh out of an ebike.

As it is, it's just tolerable but could be a lot more fun with extra "venom".

My PAS is working fine now in rain and mud, curb jumps and road bumps.

FYI
Autoclaves aren't needed unless you need to cure "pre-pregs" (fabrics that already have resin applied). The heat and pressure
is the catalyst for the pre-pregs.

For wet layups (no autoclave) 24hrs at room temp. is normal for dry-to-touch curing. The key is to mix the resin / hardener thoroughly, remove any excess resin.
The fabric needs to be wet-out but not saturated / glistening.

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

I bought my 1000w 48 volt rear wheel kit a while back now but they let me buy just the kit without the battery. Maybe they have changed their policy.

I cannot quote any figures but I recall someone making the point that a 500W 36V will actually get you further distance wise and quicker so it all works out about the same. My 1000W 48V 10ah Dillenger gets me further than my 500W 36V 10ah chinese kit.

 

[merrystein]

I bought my 1000w 48 volt rear wheel kit a while back now but they let me buy just the kit without the battery. Maybe they have changed their policy.

I cannot quote any figures but I recall someone making the point that a 500W 36V will actually get you further distance wise and quicker so it all works out about the same. My 1000W 48V 10ah Dillenger gets me further than my 500W 36V 10ah chinese kit.

I've seen it stated somewhere, the bigger motors get less range using the same battery. Faster speeds should mean more wind resistance and more loss of energy to heat in the controller and hub. But as you have found, it is the reverse. Sounds like a case of big V8 doing low revs vs a little 4cyl doing high revs to maintain the same speed, and using about the same amount of fuel. Or better quality Dillenger hub/controller/battery.

Dillenger replied to my email about the 250W Tricell kit => They don't actually offer their kits with missing components and that mine bottle battery will not work with their controller and so on.

As I have two bottle batteries, I do not need another one, especially given the extra cost. For my GM kit, which did not come with battery, I was able to buy a connector to allow the my battery to connect to the GM controller....too easy. The play together well. Dillenger 250W 8Ah kit with builtin controller, has a special connector between battery and controller. I do not think you can buy that connector from JayCar. The Dillenger Tricell kit, has more standard wiring coming from the controller, so I am not sure why I would not be able to connect my battery.

The supply of MXUS hub I was going to buy, has changed from front to rear hub (not keen on rear hubs - screw on gears). So might try ozelectricbicycles, who seem to use the same front hub (250W 36V) as Dillenger, but have a common battery connection. Buying this kit means adding a battery to my existing collection. What can I power with 108V.....an ambulance.

 

[yellagonga]

One battery stores (36x10) 0.36 kilowatt hours and the other has 0.48kWhrs. So I'm not surprised the 48v goes further, it has more energy.

The power drawn from the battery by the motor is not dependant on the power rating of the motor, it is dependant on the load placed on the motor.

If a 1000w motor drew it's full 1000watts from a 0.48kWhrs battery, it would flat in (60x 0.48) 28minutes 48 seconds. I'm guessing the battery lasts for well over an hour. If you wanted to, you could calculate your average power draw by timing how long the battery takes to go flat.

 

[merrystein]

One battery stores (36x10) 0.36 kilowatt hours and the other has 0.48kWhrs.

Ah yes, different kWh batteries. Thanks, didn't notice that. I should of twigged the 48V vs 36V when tonyontopofabighill mentioned 1000W and 500W kits. I deal in the realm of 250W vs 500W, and most kit batteries are 36V.
I'll have to ride a 1000W bike one day to see what it is like Currently on my 250W, when I wizz past some keen cyclists, like they are standing still, they all of sudden pick up the tempo to draft me for as long as they can. I think they would have trouble keeping up with a 1000W bike.