DrainBrain will read over 4000W :)

L

Lowell

100 kW
Joined
Jan 12, 2007
Messages
1,695
Location
Vancouver
From the Ebikes.ca website "-4000 to +4000 watts, with 1 watt resolution "

I'm happy to report that there is no such limitation on mine. Unfortunately it's near freezing outisde, so there will be no test ride tonight :(

I could really use a small dyno in the garage, as I had the rear rim brake absolutely screaming for mercy with a quick full throttle test blast. Should be putting down around 3500W to the tire on the top end now. Gears? Don't need gears with an X5 hub, 84v and 50 amps.
 
Lowell said:
Gears? Don't need gears with an X5 hub, 84v and 50 amps.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, but wouldn't you feel all warm & fuzzy knowing that you could save on a few ergs* by using gears? :roll:

Preaching to the choir on this end.


*erg is the old metric unit for energy. My physics prof defined an erg as the amount of energy required to lift a mosquito to a height of one centimeter.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
Lowell said:
Gears? Don't need gears with an X5 hub, 84v and 50 amps.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, but wouldn't you feel all warm & fuzzy knowing that you could save on a few ergs* by using gears? :roll:

Preaching to the choir on this end.


*erg is the old metric unit for energy. My physics prof defined an erg as the amount of energy required to lift a mosquito to a height of one centimeter.
Click to expand...

What kind of transmission will handle 5000W?
 
Ypedal said:
I beleive it's a thermal limitation of the shunt. short bursts will be ok.. but sustained duration of this much power will eventually nuke the shunt.
Click to expand...

Ah, that makes sense. I have the direct plug in version that uses the shunt inside the speed controller.
 
:idea: You guys know that 3500 Watts is almost 5 (five) horsepower right?

That's great power, but there's no "future" for that in real life for bicycles because no law authority will ever, ever, ever, allow it.

Since the laws say 1hp or 2hp MAX in most of America the gears are the best way to expand the capabilities of those limitiations. (it's mostly staying within the law, with gearing being the only outstanding issue)

:arrow: You've actually created "motorcycle" levels of power... literally "motorcycle" level... (a "fire breathing monster" :evil: )

The "bottom line" is the "masses" will never be able to do what you are doing unless they have a drivers license, registration and insurance. So you are creating things that will forever remain in the "shadows" of history... your work will never "change the world" of electric bicycles...
 
Of course the current limit can be turned down for "street legal" use.

And don't forget the "500 Watt" stickers on the motor.
 
fechter said:
Of course the current limit can be turned down for "street legal" use.
And don't forget the "500 Watt" stickers on the motor.
Click to expand...

There is some sense to that idea too. The bike shop becomes bound by law to sell the bike in "legal form" wiith a "severely restricted" controller. Then people in the "aftermarket area" turn around and buy the "upgrade" to boost the power. I can see that... (actually right now that's what's going on already) They did that with motorycles too, they would sell them with "restricted fuel flow" and then people would modify them afterwards. It's a pretty common trick.

In then end it comes down to how the laws "evolve" over time I guess...
 
Question?

What do you guys "do" when you are riding?

Part of the "fun" for me is upshifting and downshifting and trying to always squeeze that last ounce of performance out of the bike. With a fixed gear system you have literally "nothing" to do. While there would be room to improve on performance you have no ability to do so and would just sit there and cruise.

Seems to me another "argument" for gears is the "entertainement" value of doing it well. We like our "Sport" to have "skills" to master. Just like knowing how to pick "fast lines" getting into and out of turns you want to do the same kind of thinking (for pleasure) with the motor.

The geared "Road Racer" sport bike is an exhilerating adventure every time I ride it. It's 45 minutes (at present) of flat out, full speed, push it to the limits riding. (I've actually gotten some two wheel drift going while cornering over a bumpy section... now THAT can get exciting!) The sport bike is the perfect dose of adrenaline for an "adrenaline junkie".

:arrow: Where's the "fun" in a "fixed gear"?

Would someone ever buy a Ferrari and then get an "automatic"? (few might, but most would turn up their nose in disgust)
 
Some people like automatic and some like standard trans....

With the hub motor way, you don't have to lay off the throttle to shift.. you just peg it and hold on!!! :lol:

No chains to oil, adjust, gears to fiddle with and maintain... etc.....

Look at X's ride.. that thing is filthy.. if he had your setup he' have chain problems all the time ! :twisted:
 
In a one mile run, I'd put my money on the hub motor. The time spent accelerating will be a small percentage of the total time.

Is pedaling fair?
 
Where did I say I was trying to change the world? All I want to do is get from point A to point B quicker.

I'll take 6 gears in my cars/bikes over an auto any day, except when the auto is quicker. With a few exceptions such as Pro Stock, drag cars are generally automatic due to quicker shifts, power on all the time, and they don't shock the tires as much at high power levels.

If I could have and e-bike with 5+hp, gears and 100% realiability, I'd be all for it. For now, I'm pretty sure a 5whp hub will beat any 1.5hp geared bike at any race, and that's the bottom line.
 
Lowell said:
Ah, that makes sense. I have the direct plug in version that uses the shunt inside the speed controller.
Click to expand...

It uses the shunt in a Crystallyte controller?
Can you adjust the calibration?
Any idea what the shunt resistance is?
 
Aerodynamics determine top speed.

So my little 750 Watt can reach 38 mph on the flat and a little more on a downhill. Depending on the course the little motor with gears and aerodynamics can do well compared to the massive hub motor and poor aerodynamics.

I can't wait to build the new bike and blow everyone away in every category... but for now I think I'm probably going to have times for a mile that are about the same as a hub motor.

My "average" speed is around 20-22 mph over all kinds of starts and stops, so my one mile speed should be about 35 mph average. (I would need to find a good flat mile to test on)
 
Ypedal said:
at 4000w.. pedals become nothing more than a decoration ! lol....
Click to expand...

Yes, pedaling at speed wouldn't work because there isn't a high enough gear. Even if I could install tall enough gearing, the increase in wind drag would negate the potential 500W power gain. So I guess pedaling is just fine by me :lol:

How about motorized gears like a Cyclone, combined with a hub motor?
 
fechter said:
Lowell said:
Ah, that makes sense. I have the direct plug in version that uses the shunt inside the speed controller.
Click to expand...

It uses the shunt in a Crystallyte controller?
Can you adjust the calibration?
Any idea what the shunt resistance is?
Click to expand...

You can adjust the calibration, and my particular shunt came out at 1.01x milli ohms. (don't remember exactly)
 
Ypedal said:
No chains to oil, adjust, gears to fiddle with and maintain... etc.....
Click to expand...

Some people need that for therapy! :lol:

That & fiddlin' with a carb on a Saturday morn.

Must be an age thing cuz I've been there & done that.
Rather just hop on & go. :)

You'll never convince individuals with a near OCD compulsion for constant tweaking of anything different. Just like you'll never convice a Harley-boy he should get something reliable. Topping up the oil leak every few miles is fun. :p

(Now there's something sure to start an argument!). :wink:[/quote]
 
Look at X's ride.. that thing is filthy.. if he had your setup he' have chain problems all the time !
Click to expand...

I've been found out! Yes, the real reason I prefer the hubmotor is so I can get and keep my bike dirtier!
 
At the local motorcycle meets there are riders of all types, and although I'm a Japanese sport bike type, I can see the attraction of big comfortable cruisers. Personally if I want wind in my hair and comfort I'd drive a convertible... except for an S2000. Unreliable glass drivetrain. 2 broken rear ends, 1 shattered 2nd gear. :evil:

The stock S2000 has some small 'fun to drive' factor, until you realize you're doing a lot of shifting and revving to 9000, but not going fast. I'm local to these guys
http://www.piersdiesel.com/index.htm
and they build some faaast diesel trucks. On a highway roll on from 80km/h-220km/h the S2000 was soundly beaten by a Chevy 2500 truck of all things. Even above 200km/h the truck just kept pulling away from me, I could hardly believe my eyes, and the truck driver even gave me the best race possible in favor of the S2k.
 
Bigger motors have more power, but they also use more energy to get that power. Batteries for electric vehicles are very expensive. It just seems logical to focus on price/performance/economy over brute strength.

But there is a "macho factor" that kicks in where people sort of go crazy for power and are willing to part with lot's of money to have it. We see it in the electric bike arena just like in the gas powered car arena.

:arrow: We are dealing with HUMAN EMOTIONS about what their machine is about.

Seems to me that the "macho mentality" is best for the gas powered world because you can achieve more "raw power" that way. In the electrical world we're still trying to "justify" the economic benefits so one would "think" that the economic arguments would take over. But taken to that EXTREME you get a bike that never exceeds 20 mph because above that you waste energy with wind resistance.

It's hard to say where it all ends up...

Lower battery prices will PROBABLY encourage more power as time goes on. (it's like with computer RAM... at one time a "megabyte" of RAM was considered all you would need or could afford)
 
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