E-Cumbent Vision R40: 80v*30a, Xlyt 404, 20", C7220PF

64ragtop said:
Wrenches for torque arms....I saw that done elsewhere a few days ago as well. Kind of a cool "Gearhead" look, IMHO.
BC

:) Sharpen for the Road Warrior look. Works well with my front sprocket spinning too.


64ragtop said:
As far as the motor wire ... "Does it make any difference if it goes up or down..." the proper way is for the wire to go down from the hub and then turn back up to its' destination. This is called a "drip loop" and it does just that. Water won't run up the wire and have any chance to enter the motor.

OK, yeah, it's only because of rain then. I have no kickstand on my recumbent and no really good place for one, so I flip the bike onto it's seat with front sprocket "blade of death" at the top. That's harder now that I have so much more weight, especially on front.

Canada Post has my controller and throttles. Battery pack under construction: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4908&p=87146#p87146

Monday I "have to work", but maybe I can ebike the 30 km to work for maiden voyage ? :) What could go wrong... ?
 
My $800 something Canadian (with taxes), rated 720 WH (real 600+ WH) battery pack. 6 batts, rated 20v, 6ah each. Have BMS each battery with 15v LVC and 31 amp limiter.

Each batt has 4 LEDs to show charge and a button. I used clear tape tight over small nuts to keep the buttons down. Current draw is miniscule for this. Bag glows in the dark. :) Will look at cutting windows so LEDs clearly visible from outside.

Bag is re-inforced with thick corrugated cardboard on all sides for it's triangle/wedge shape. Works well. Batts are wired so I can shut the bag forever, and charge, or reconfigure externally for anything useful, from 1, 2s, 3s2p, 6s, etc.

bikebatt 004.jpg


Battery bag mounted under seat with help of "super bungee" cords. It holds the 20 pounds securely, it appears.

Space above bungees below seat will be for controller I hope to pick up in 6 hours...

Upper back will monitor batt temp, and rear-end will monitor controller.

bikebatt 007.jpg


Bike charging and waiting for controller and throttles.

bikebatt 006.jpg
 
It works ! I have electro-locomotion ! :) :)

On 2 batts, 38 volts, I can get to 40 KMH or 25 MPH no problem. Pedal start kicks in at about the lowest speed I can maintain before falling down: about 5 KMH or 3 MPH.

One of my batts crapped out on me and shows 0.7v, but on charger now and looking better. Maybe BMS weirdness ?

Canada Post was here with mu controller Friday, but my wife missed delivery so I couldn't pick up until today.

Time for riding and testing... Let's see how far I can go.

Need to print out a "sticker" saying bike is "legal" since I'm the manufacturer. :)

Also need helmet; will e-bike to bike shop for one.
 
Maiden voyage complete; no mishaps. :)

I'm pretty happy with this bike at 36 volts. I may keep it at that. The worst part of the worst hill slowed me to 10 KMH (6 MPH) without pedalling and I'm OK with that, for now at least. Motor never got more that warm to the touch.

48 KM (30 miles) and I only rode a few KMs on the 3rd battery pair. I pedalled a bit, at end of batteries, to start (PF) and to keep my feet from getting bored and cold.

1st batt pair lasted 20 KM (12.5 miles) and I drove relatively sedately and targetted 24-25 KMH (15-16 MPH).

2nd batt pair lasted 17 KM ( 10.6 miles) targetting 30 KMH (18.7 MPH).

I'm disabling my "Tape nut over battery check button" mod on the batts, because it prevents their BMS from automatically resetting. Voltage sits at 0.7v when this happens.
 
Ypedal said:
That 0.7v reading is when the BMS trips i'm pretty sure ( overcurrent protection ).. :wink: a quick power off/on should reset it.

Congrats on the maiden voyage !!! :D ( might want to try 48v.. but 80v would be slightly insane !! )

These batts normally auto-reset themselves, but it appears you have to eliminate every last mill-amp of current for that to happen. My forcethe buttone always down mod pulled a little current, so prevented auto-reset.

Yes, thanks, going to try 60v tonight, 3s. I want to see how my WH/km mileage compares using the same speed range, but higher voltage and lower throttle. 20 - 32 KMH (12-20 MPH) is enough for me for now. On a "-bent" you're closer to the road and see it whizzing by. Got helmet today. Wondering about protection equip/clothing now.

My brakes need a solution. I have no fronts now, and rear squeaks and was never much good, and rear tire is 2/3 the width, about 1" vs 1.5" and older so I'm not getting good braking now. Basically, I have to slow down for curbs a good deal ahead

Electric braking is solution of course, regen is great too, but just continuous variable e-brakings is needed. And in the front where it's better and tires are better/wider anyway.


Put thumb throttle on left since left hand does nothing else now. I'm not using front deraileur really, and brake is dead now.

But I think I'll try the right haf twist throttle now. Don't shift much with electric and brake and throttle are never needed at same time. My under seat steeering bars go from front to back though, but hand position is different. Intelligent cruise control would be nice. And turn signals and a fairing... :)

It was a colder day today but I was chilled, from wind and lack of exercise. My feet would go a bit numb, now I'm thinking perhaps from their elevated position on the recumbent.If you're pedalling blood will flow, but otherwise perhaps not ?? Perhaps I could figure out some lower resting pssition than pedals with my feet still in front but lower, resting in slings or something. Perhaps more aero ? Have to say, I find it really nice to be reclined in a bent.
 
Midnight e-rider rides again. :)

bikeme 006.jpg

Flat fixed, 2s auxilary switch added, brakes slightly improved. This was my first run where I did not have to manually re-wire anything; just throw switches. Carefully and with thought to switch welding issue below.

Wrap around safety glasses worked well for night riding once I washed them. Goggles might be better, but bike shops don't carry them until winter; same with balaclavas; will have to locate my ski clothes.

Upgrade $13 CTire head lamp to BLT $50 helmet mount. Works better; OK for not too fast riding on very dark bike paths. Rear view mirror works wonderfully.

Actually saw one other bike rider on my 27 mile circuit. Rare after midnight; I see 3-4 cats per late night run though. They look right at you with those reflective eyes and run when you get close. :) Always give them my signature whistle; perhaps they'll get to know me. :)

I encountered a nasty flaw in my light switch "BMS". All switches down on the 1s-4s main pack = short circuit to controller. When switching from aux back to main pack, the controller big-ash capacitor sparked BIG time inside the aux switch. This caused a 5 second or so sizzle and light show inside aux switch. This WELDED the aux switch in the main pack position ! Do they still use mercury switches in these things ? Mebbe I be madder as a hatter soon...

On this run, I still had some battery connector issues and one batt was disabled. Not a problem with the switches. Think I will re-wire with some flexible higher gauge wire. 10 Gauge is WAY overkill for the tiny wires on my 20a controller. I think now that 20a is plenty for me, especially since range is a higher priority to me than torque. Also, accidental sparks (I've had at least 5-6 by now) will be smaller.

This was a 1 battery at a time ride for first 23 miles. I'm surprised how well a single 6ah, 20v, dropping to 17v, then quickly to 15v battery performs. I had thought the controller would LVC at 19v but it appears to go much lower, perhaps to 15v at least.

First battery, with much downhill and almost no pedalling lasted 9.5 miles (6.7 WH per KM !). Second battery, with more uphills and some more pedalling, especially up hills, also lasted 9.5 miles. Third battery with more uphill and pedalling on uphills lasted only 6 miles, but this included some nasty hills that peak at 10% incline. From there, I rode the 2s aux battery the last 4 miles home with plenty left over.

I'm really surprised how much I enjoyed single 20v battery operation. I was less tense, and enjoyed the ride more. I got exercise and kept warmer from the exercise and slower speeds. (Need fairing for warmth and a bit better efficiency now I think. I don't suppose aero will help much at 20-25 KMH.) Max speed was about 14-15 MPH on flat, good enough for night riding and pothole/rut scanning. I think I might need 2s with the kids in a trailer though; will see this weekend.

So I'm thinking with 1 batt at a time, I could easily get a range of 75 KM (47 miles) on 6 batts if it's more or less flat or moderate hills where I help the motor. I get the feeling that when the motor is straining, pedalling can get the motor into a higher efficiency zone and often-times the speed would stay at the new higher speed, or drop only slowly. This is almost like putting the motor in a lower gear. Yes, I'm adding muscle power, but I think the total power increase of my hybrid "muscle and electric" bike is greater than my muscle input. Sort of like my wonderful Prius "Hybrid Synergy Drive" where the motors and gears act like a fully electronic transmission.

I'm going to try and apply some Prius "hyper-miling" tricks to this bike with anticipating slowdowns etc. And if I pedalled more I think I could get 100 KM / 60 miles without too much "hyper-miling" ! :)
 
Some of the more spendy house light switches do use mercury capsules to do the switching ... mercury doesn't erode from sparks.

This would make them unsuitable for use on anything that moves about. One good bump, or a steep turn will cause them to switch on or off.

Try a cheaper switch. Test your current switches by hooking them up to a continuity tester, and give them a good shake.
 
kbarrett said:
Some of the more spendy house light switches do use mercury capsules to do the switching ... mercury doesn't erode from sparks.

This would make them unsuitable for use on anything that moves about. One good bump, or a steep turn will cause them to switch on or off.

Try a cheaper switch. Test your current switches by hooking them up to a continuity tester, and give them a good shake.

Good point about merc switches and bumps. Leviton 1453. About $1.15 at one site, while the equivalent mercury switches (Leviton 243) seem to be $4.40.

I drilled out the rivets and checked. No mercury, just contacts. I guess mercury might be what makes motor rated switches more expensive. I wonder if it's just environmental regs that make mercury cost more?

I had a wonderful run with 4s / 80v this morning. I kept the speeds low, like 10-16 MPH, higher on downhill Probably the safe limit at night on these dark bike trails for me at least. One time I decided to push it a little in a curve, and quickly cam to my senses after landing on my right in the weeds. Thankfully, I've found my recumbent crashes to be pretty minor; there is much less farther to fall.

My 4s run without pedals, was just as efficient as my 1s run the previous night: 9WH/km or 14.4WH/mile That's what my calcs and the simulator say, but I've now proved it to myself. Higher speeds with voltage up hills probably improves efficiency somewhat. Just so long asa you can resist the temptation to use the power for acceleration or speed. Coasting to stops helps also, of course.

So I think I'll go with a simpler setup: 4s main pack switchable with a 2s "get me home I went too far" pack. This will nicely avoid the short circuit to the controller capacitor surge. I think I'll add a switchable charge resistor (and a main on/off) to help avoid the capacitor inrush current strain on the switches.

When going slow at 4s, the throttle seemed twitchy. I though a connection was loose at first. Just because I'm using the very low settings of the throttle. I think I will add a switchable pot to the throttle to reduce the power and low end "twitchiness" when I don't need full power.

Although I won't generally need the power of 4s, it's nice to have for occasional fun, demos, nasty hills and heavy trailers. It allows me to substitute voltage for current, reducing current demands on batteries and wires and I^2*R losses. I don't need diodes with this setup. The BMS built into the batteries seems to handle everything I've thrown at it so far.

Voltage on these batteries is THE indicator if charge left. I'm going to mount a DMM on the bike, switchable between current and voltage to monitor life used/left. Will use my own brain to estimate drain.

I rewired my battery bag with flexible 14 gauge wire. MUCH easier to work with than solid 10 gauge ! Left short 10 gauge wires in battery connectors and taped them down good and that solved my connector issues. Will add voltage sensing/charger wires tonight and hopefully I'll be able to mount the bag semi-permanently and rarely remove it from bike.

Bike is about 60 pounds now, double it's original weight. Much harder to handle, and even to get going sometimes, an issue since I have pedal first. Wonder if this controller can be mod'd to instant start ?

I'm back to the left thumb throttle from the right half-twist. I've found it easier to use (maybe related to going 4s ?) and hold for longer periods. I don't use my thumb, I hold it in the crack between thumb and first finger.


Wife has left me with the kids for 5 days, so midnight runs are cancelled, except perhaps for 10-15 minute tests down the street. Will have opportunity to day run with two kids in trailer. 240 pounds me+bike+ equip and add 100 pounds for kids+trailer+cargo gives 340 pounds. Wonder how much my range will drop. Guess that could tell me how much power I'm using up on hills, if I compare with my trailer-less runs.
 
Ottawa River Run with the kids:

I took my 2 kids on a trailer on my regular 44 KM route today. 350 pounds total:

173 lbs me, 72 bike and 105 kids, trailer and minimal (4 lbs) cargo.

I had to help pedal up hills because the trip did in my "real" 600 watt hour LiMn pack. Previously I've ran that route using only 400 watt hours (15-25 KMH, except a few 30 KMH) with total weight of 245 pounds.

Cheap old DMM for current and voltage monitoring (and analog for voltage). Works up to 20 amp limit of my controller, even if only rated for 10a. Supposedly fused at 10a, but nothing pops. If it did, tin-foil time. Current is useful but it can bounce around a lot. Voltage good indicator if charge left. 17.5v open circuit/ no throttle per 20v batt means I'll be in trouble soon. 17v means I must pedal up hills or I'll trip LVC at 15v.

bikeme 008.jpg

My new rear light and 3 light switch setup. First is power (I call it voltage). Second I call current. It bypasses a 5 K ohm resistor I use to charge (and discharge sometime, like switching from 4s to 2s) the controller caps slowly and avoid big sparks in my switches.

Third switch selects main 4s pack when down, and 2s auxiliary pack when up. Switches can be and have been flipped on the fly, even after BMS shutdowns and while coasting.

To right of light switches are 6 pairs of battery leads, for charging/testing individual voltages. I can finally leave my battery back mounted on bike. :)bikeme 009.jpg


26 lbs of trailer, 75 pounds of kids, and 4 lbs of cargo at Aylmer Marina.bikeme 012.jpg

The Ruins. Kids getting bored before being allowed out to run amuck.bikeme 013.jpgbikeme 014.jpg

Boredom solved. Lets throw some rocks. :)bikeme 016.jpg

Not enough elbow room for almost 6 and almost 3 together. :( Daddy thinks almost 6 needs to ride his own bike now. Mebbe 'lectric, like 50 watts for 10 MPH... View attachment 1

20 seconds later and a few feet back, the world looks a little better: bikeme 024.jpg
 
Nice. Try some front regen braking. Even if you can't modulate the force, you can make up for that with the weak rear mebbe.

I've never found the two seater trailers to be so.. The pedaller tandem bolt on things seem to be the popular thing for kids 50 pounds and up. Not sure if you could get one to link up tho, anyway you would need a riding partner, one tow for each kid.

mikereidis said:
Daddy thinks almost 6 needs to ride his own bike now. Mebbe 'lectric, like 50 watts for 10 MPH...
Working on a similar idea, more like 250 watts though. Not sure how good an idea it is, we'll see. I test rode it (clown style) around, not sure if the power level is right yet tho.

Wonder if something like this could work as a pusher hrmm..
http://www.bikecare.co.uk/products/trailgator.jpg
 
vanilla ice said:
mikereidis said:
Daddy thinks almost 6 needs to ride his own bike now. Mebbe 'lectric, like 50 watts for 10 MPH...
Working on a similar idea, more like 250 watts though. Not sure how good an idea it is, we'll see. I test rode it (clown style) around, not sure if the power level is right yet tho.

Wonder if something like this could work as a pusher hrmm..
http://www.bikecare.co.uk/products/trailgator.jpg


:) Law in Ontario (not sure about home province of Quebec; many laws here are in French only...) says electric bike riders (on road at least) must be 16. So off-road only for legal, not really sure about bike paths, but haven't seen a cop on one once. (Except to check I wasn't a vagrant once at night 7 years ago.) Perhaps there should be a bit more police presence on bike paths. Too many young women have been attacked, and even killed, on these paths over the last 10 years. May help explain why there is so little traffic after dark, which suits me, but I'm not happy with the reason.

I tried a thin wood divider to keep family peace yesterday. It was partially successful. Nothing distracting like back seat arguments when trying to enjoy the ride at 20-30 KMH. :(

Rode to http://bushtukah.com/ yesterday for new helmet for son, and new lock for bike. Bushtukah is great bike shop here in Ottawa area, friendly staff, good advise, a bit busy sometimes. They accepted my return of the $50 BLT helmet light. My $13 on sale ($25 regular) Canadian Tire 3 LED headlight is much brighter ! Was also not happy I had to jam tape in battery compartment to keep light working through bumps ! Happy that Bushtukah accepted return with no problem. Don't know if they'd refund cash; I bought stuff with return.

Two kids on a trailer (350 lbs) REALLY does in my range. About two thirds of what I get with just me and bike (250 lbs). I think I'll get two more batteries for 4s times 2. On trip charging is another strategy I'll attempt:

My "Dangerous Cheap Ass Charger" (DCAC) prototype is working well so far. See http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4908&p=89812#p89454 and http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4908&p=89812#p89812 .

I'm loving e-biking, but need better braking. Will start with better, newer tire on back, and brake adjustments, but front regen/e-braking will have to come.
 
My recumbent has a few too many safety issues now. Front brakes non-existent, rear brakes marginal, handling poor, cage pulley broken, tight turns virtually impossible due to batteries under seat.

Somebody locally is selling a better version of my bike, mint, with front and rear suspension for $700. I'm seeing if I can get a better deal. May use that and keep mine for spare parts, since manufacturer is out of business.

So the bike I bought for my son is too big for him still. $15 from Salvation Army. Seems like good componets, Shimano 6 speed shifts smoothly, really good brakes. Some rust on chain and gears. Think maybe some kid didn't use it much and left it outside in rain. Some local guy selling same for $70, wonder what cost new ?

20" tires. Hmmm....

bikedcacrave 010.jpg

At 11:30 PM work began, and 1 hour 50 minutes, some wrenching and lots of duct tape later, the job was done.

bikedcacrave 011.jpg

What a blast ! Handles much better than my recumbent, and can get in tight spaces and corners easily, albeit with a bit of occasional knee rubbing on the handlebars. I have seat up as high as it seems safe. Guess any seat extension would be unsafe. Hmm, better seat with longer stem or whatever it's called ??

Seems like a small motorcycle, with the tank/battery between my legs:bikedcacrave 012.jpg

That's my voltmeter and ammeter in front of my controller, tucked under front of seat. Those four switches select 20v or 40v for Bank A and Bank B. 4 Yardworks LiMn 20v, 6ah batts. Underneath it all is my integrated charger, with power cord etc.


Maybe I can use the long bolts on front hub motor as foot rests or to mount foot rests ???

Can't get that Queen song out of my head. Here's the NSFW uncensored vergin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68Ze1ZcqnO0

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Must be gettin' the ebike bug... Need. More. Motors. 26" for wife's bike. DC 20" with 1 single 20v, 6ah battery for son in a year or 2.

Crazy ideas. Cheap charger for $30. Light Bulbs and dimmers for e-braking. 3 phase bridge rectifiers for regen. Micro-controller to manage it all w/ GPL code. Must be manic or something. :)
 
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