E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Hyena]

Yeah, the stock one is a small problem now...
Controller can take 100V tops so 24S should be good.

The onboard BMS only does 20S though doesn't it ?
I'd also recommend not running 24S. Run 22 or 23 if you absolutely must. No doubt the guys are running good caps and fets in those controllers but a fully charged 24S lipo pack is just over 100v and I'd be nervous about running such an expensive controller right at the limit.

Oh yeah well my dad, well my dad warned me never to ride motorcycles so what the hell did he know lol. It's becoming pretty obvious to me you got a bad case of streamer envy

 

[Allex]

The onboard BMS only does 20S though doesn't it ?
I'd also recommend not running 24S. Run 22 or 23 if you absolutely must. No doubt the guys are running good caps and fets in those controllers but a fully charged 24S lipo pack is just over 100v and I'd be nervous about running such an expensive controller right at the limit.

True, think the FETs are 100V rated so there is the limit. Besides I don't think you need more than 20-22s for normal use anyway.
The new BMS will actually support up to 28s(good if your run LiFePo4), the cost for this board will be around 150usd
Pic of 28S board:

 

[Rix]

Oh yeah well my dad, well my dad warned me never to ride motorcycles so what the hell did he know lol. It's becoming pretty obvious to me you got a bad case of streamer envy. If you keep this up I'm going to buy you your own set, and send them to you for Christmas.

As the French say, Touche'. I will shut up and move on now, the last thing are streamers arriving in the mail. :lol:

CD is likely referring to areas around Mt Stromlo MTB Park, like this trail out the back, shot with a mate who was the local DH race co-ordinator, just in a lunchtime hit-out:

Quiet Rush, I have seen these vids before and watch them from time to time, along with Hyena's and Cd's, especially when the weather doesn't allow for an offroad ride. Anyway your vid where your DH buddy had the go pro view from the back is an excellent example of proper suspension set up, specifically how your rebound is slowed down. Those jumps you were catching air time on are down hill kicker types. If your rebound was too fast, you would be fighting to keep your bike from throwing you over the bars. But that's not the case, you have your fighter set up good. Cant remember but are running the air shock or the new model coil shock? Know you are running the air shock in your Stromlo vid but can't tell on the DH vid.

Rick

 

[Rix]

Yeah, the stock one is a small problem now...
Controller can take 100V tops so 24S should be good.

The onboard BMS only does 20S though doesn't it ?
I'd also recommend not running 24S. Run 22 or 23 if you absolutely must. No doubt the guys are running good caps and fets in those controllers but a fully charged 24S lipo pack is just over 100v and I'd be nervous about running such an expensive controller right at the limit.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[JJ2525]

I posted this in a different forum, but just stumbled upon this Stealth Owner thread so figured I'd try to glean some info from here as well.

Hi,

I live in Los Angeles and am looking into an E-Bike/E-Motorcycle for the primary reasons of parking ease, (seemingly) lower vehicle maintenance+gas costs, environmental improvement and (hopefully) less traffic. I do not drive on the freeways except when I need to, and have a car for those long trips. It's easy enough to get around without accessing the freeway.

I have narrowed my search to two vehicles, the Zero S Motorcycle and the Stealth Bomber electric bike. I am leaning towards the Stealth because it's cheaper, lighter, I can store it in my apartment and as much as the performance of the Zero is appealing, I don't really need it. I have some questions about the Stealth, and am hopeful that this informative forum can help me gain some clarity.

1) I am very intrigued by the Twist and Go throttle on the Zero. If you are not pedaling on the Stealth and are just using the throttle exclusively, do you still need to shift gears or can it be Twist and Go?

2) Bike lanes are notoriously scarce in LA. Can the Stealth be ridden competently in street traffic? I haven't ridden a bicycle in years, but 40-50 MPH would be sufficiently snappy to avoid being maimed by drivers, yes?

3) What are the primary sources of maintenance costs for the Stealth?

4) I see the battery is rated for 600-800 cycles. Is it a "smart" battery so I needn't worry about draining it, charge times, etc.? Also, when the battery dies, does the manufacturer offer replacement batteries or are they really done with you after you purchase the bike.

Appreciative for any and all info. Thanks!

 

[Rix]

I posted this in a different forum, but just stumbled upon this Stealth Owner thread so figured I'd try to glean some info from here as well.

Hi,
I live in Los Angeles and am looking into an E-Bike/E-Motorcycle for the primary reasons of parking ease, (seemingly) lower vehicle maintenance+gas costs, environmental improvement and (hopefully) less traffic. I do not drive on the freeways except when I need to, and have a car for those long trips. It's easy enough to get around without accessing the freeway.
I have narrowed my search to two vehicles, the Zero S Motorcycle and the Stealth Bomber electric bike. I am leaning towards the Stealth because it's cheaper, lighter, I can store it in my apartment and as much as the performance of the Zero is appealing, I don't really need it. I have some questions about the Stealth, and am hopeful that this informative forum can help me gain some clarity.
1) I am very intrigued by the Twist and Go throttle on the Zero. If you are not pedaling on the Stealth and are just using the throttle exclusively, do you still need to shift gears or can it be Twist and Go?
2) Bike lanes are notoriously scarce in LA. Can the Stealth be ridden competently in street traffic? I haven't ridden a bicycle in years, but 40-50 MPH would be sufficiently snappy to avoid being maimed by drivers, yes?
3) What are the primary sources of maintenance costs for the Stealth?
4) I see the battery is rated for 600-800 cycles. Is it a "smart" battery so I needn't worry about draining it, charge times, etc.? Also, when the battery dies, does the manufacturer offer replacement batteries or are they really done with you after you purchase the bike.
Appreciative for any and all info. Thanks!

Good questions JJ, I will do my best to answer your questions, keep in mind some of my answer are my opinion only.

If you are not pedaling on the Stealth and are just using the throttle exclusively, do you still need to shift gears or can it be Twist and Go?

The Stealth Throttle and propulsion are totally independent from pedaling. You can throttle and ride it and never pedal a single stroke, just like a Motorcycle throttle.

Bike lanes are notoriously scarce in LA. Can the Stealth be ridden competently in street traffic? I haven't ridden a bicycle in years, but 40-50 MPH would be sufficiently snappy to avoid being maimed by drivers, yes?

Stealth bikes are super stable, they can easily handle 40-50MPH, keep in mind that as you get up towards 50MPH, you are getting close to top speed so there wont be much, if any "snappy" throttle responses, but the machine is super flickable and turns much quicker and easier than any motorcycle, (road and dirt bikes), I have ever ridden.

What are the primary sources of maintenance costs for the Stealth?

For me, tires and tubes, until I laced kids' motor cycle rims and started running trials tires. Haven't had a flat since. This comes at the price of a weight penalty, and if riding only on pavement, you should never have a problem, except maybe pinch flatting if you center punch a curb.

I see the battery is rated for 600-800 cycles. Is it a "smart" battery so I needn't worry about draining it, charge times, etc.? Also, when the battery dies, does the manufacturer offer replacement batteries or are they really done with you after you purchase the bike.

Sounds like you might be familiar with nicads. The batteries Stealth use aren't like the old school nicads I ran in my Team Associated RC10 back in the late 80s. Unlike nicads, pretty much any battery with lithium in the chemistry doesn't have a memory effect from partial dis-charging and re-charging. In fact, batteries with lithium chemistry tend to last longer when they aren't discharged down to minimum voltage before charging.

I hope this helps you with your decision.

 

[Allex]

Regarding the Battery. Combining with super safe chemistry and built in battery management system - you don't have to think about it at all. Just ride, plug in to charge, and then ride again. One thing worth mentioning is that the machine, unlike the real MCs (zero) is not waterproof. So You have to do a bit of work before it gets good. So think and prepare before you use it, because it is still a "bicycle"

 

[stritzky]

Tire Liners

I bought a set of Tuffy Tire Liners. But I cant really say that I'm all that impressed. I decided to test them out before installing them into my tires. I took a couple of Thumbtacks and put them on a flat table top. And laid the Tuffy Tire liners on top. And applied a very small amount of pressure. And they just seamed to go strait thru with almost no resistance at all.

What are your experience with Tire liners. And what brand are you using. And what would you recommend ? I already Use Slime. In both tires.

 

[JJ2525]

Thank you both so much for the replies. One thing that does concern me is the battery replacement process. Is a replacement battery readily available through the manufacturer/elsewhere when it reaches the point of lost life?

 

[MexicanBatman]

Yes

But it lasts ages

800 cycles is conservative

 

[PRW]

I don't want to inflame all the loyal Stealth owners out there - but sometimes batteries don't last that long, as I posted some time ago....

 

[remf]

Tire Liners

I bought a set of Tuffy Tire Liners. But I cant really say that I'm all that impressed. I decided to test them out before installing them into my tires. I took a couple of Thumbtacks and put them on a flat table top. And laid the Tuffy Tire liners on top. And applied a very small amount of pressure. And they just seamed to go strait thru with almost no resistance at all.

What are your experience with Tire liners. And what brand are you using. And what would you recommend ? I already Use Slime. In both tires.

Are they original Mr. Tuffy's or the ultra-lights? I'm using kevlar [edit] apparently Aramid liners - Panasonic Panaracer Flataways. I've found them to be very effective against everything but pinch flats...no liner will protect against them.

Here's some blurb from Tuffy, for what it's worth.

Why is Mr. Tuffy better than the other tire liners?

Mr. Tuffy pioneered the dual-layer liner concept. It is made of a special blend of polyurethane polymers that have proven effective in preventing flat tires over a 25+ year history. Other liners may be made of a rubber compound that is no more effective in stopping flats than a heavy duty tube. Others use a hard plastic material that actually causes more flats than it prevents. There is a reason Mr. Tuffy is the most “asked-for” brand. “Mr. Tuffy, Please!”

Wouldn’t a rubber liner ... like a piece of an old inner tube ... work just as well?

Rubber weighs more than Mr. Tuffy and is not effective in stopping most thorns and other road hazards.

Don't heavy duty thorn resistant tubes work just as well as Mr. Tuffy?

Heavy duty tubes are just that ... heavy, This results in higher rolling resistance ... making the bike harder to pedal. As mentioned above, rubber is not as effective at preventing punctures as the lightweight polyurethane material used in Mr. Tuffy tire liners.

Does Mr. Tuffy work as well as Kevlar liners?

Kevlar is a microscopic weave of materials that work well at stopping bullets, but they don’t provide much protection against a determined thorn, staple or piece of broken glass. Objects that stick in the liner tend to work their way through the weave and into the inner tube. Kevlar liners are far more expensive than Mr. Tuffy tire liners and are not as effective in preventing flat tires. Telling your friends that your tires are protected by Kevlar is pretty cool though ... until you have a flat.

 

[biknut]

Thank you both so much for the replies. One thing that does concern me is the battery replacement process. Is a replacement battery readily available through the manufacturer/elsewhere when it reaches the point of lost life?

Stealth's make great Street bikes. The battery is super accessible, and I doubt you'd have any trouble purchasing a new one through the factory, but don't wait till the last second to order it, because it may have to come directly from a factory in China which could take a little time. One of the beauty's of a Stealth is the frame isn't particularly dedicated specifically to the factory battery, so you should have the ability to buy a battery for many different suppliers which should help bring the price down.

Riding in traffic at 45 plus mph is easy as pie, but range takes a big hit at those speeds. Expect about 20 miles total when averaging 45 and up. My Bomber seems to get about 50 miles at 20 mph, and maybe 35 miles at 30 to 35 mph. Range also depends on the wind direction, and hills. Charge time is about 3 hours when you use over 15 ah. I'll probably end up buying a second battery or two to use as axillary's to extend my range.

Just a warning, here in Texas eBikes are restricted 20 mph top speed under it's own power, so you could have legal issues blasting 50 mph down the street. I'm not familiar with eBike laws in Cali though so be sure and check so you know what you're getting in to. That being said, I ride at traffic speeds all the time without any issues.

I think you'd be making a wise decision choosing a Stealth over a Zero or any electric motorcycle if you don't need to ride the freeway. I'm a life long motorcycle rider, but now prefer riding motor bicycles exclusively in the city because of the greater freedom MB's offer over a motorcycle. You can ride an eBike anywhere. Don't try riding a motorcycle down a sidewalk, or bike trail. One thing that helps make this acceptable is Stealth's are silent running. Stealth is an accurate description.

You'll find maintenance to be very minimal too. Lubing the bicycle chain once in a while, and checking your tires is about it. Annually lubing the Vbox with new grease. Everything else is just normal occasional bicycle maintenance.

If you're the manly type, streamers are a nice accessory.

 

[biknut]

Tire Liners

I bought a set of Tuffy Tire Liners. But I cant really say that I'm all that impressed. I decided to test them out before installing them into my tires. I took a couple of Thumbtacks and put them on a flat table top. And laid the Tuffy Tire liners on top. And applied a very small amount of pressure. And they just seamed to go strait thru with almost no resistance at all.

What are your experience with Tire liners. And what brand are you using. And what would you recommend ? I already Use Slime. In both tires.

I've had some Mr Tuffy's inside my tires for about 3 weeks. No flats so for, but 3 weeks isn't much of a test. Slime is a different story. Some people swear by it, but most people I know hate it, including me. All it's ever done for me was leak out, and make a big yucky mess inside my rim.

If you ride in the dirt, take the experts advise here, and mount motorcycle tires on your bike.

 

[Rix]

Tire Liners

I bought a set of Tuffy Tire Liners. But I cant really say that I'm all that impressed. I decided to test them out before installing them into my tires. I took a couple of Thumbtacks and put them on a flat table top. And laid the Tuffy Tire liners on top. And applied a very small amount of pressure. And they just seamed to go strait thru with almost no resistance at all.

What are your experience with Tire liners. And what brand are you using. And what would you recommend ? I already Use Slime. In both tires.

I have had great luck with Mr. Tuffy's widest tire liner when I ran MTB front and rear before switching to the MC tire route. The only flats I had incurred was on the rear and from pinch flatting and not a result of the tire liner failing. I ran one in the Duro on the front for about 1490 miles and not a single flat. They stop thorns and glass well, but direct pressure from a tack, not surprising it could be defeated.

Rick

 

[biknut]

That's my favorite beer too.

 

[Rix]

One thing that's really boring about a Bomber is they never need much maintenance. When it's cold out there's nothing to do.

I guess I could braid my streamers.

Well, you could braid your streamers, or you can take a hot bath, fart in the bath water, and bite at the bubbles. Should be equally entertaining.

Effing hilarious Rix hahahahahahahahahahahahah.......

Yah, I thought so too.

 

[biknut]

TV, until you actually take the time to throw the razorbacks on and give that bike of yours a thrashing on some dirt, no-one is going to take your comment seriously about limited off-road capability - it's just pure armchair speculation and pot stirring...hell, just take it out as it is and get those gum walls hooking up on some slick rock..I used to run Maxxis Hookworms on mine which made for some fairly sketchy behaviour in loose surfaces..

I'm with Rix, Hyena on this one. Have raced national series MTB and some pretty hairy off-road on dirt bikes - the Fighter and Bomber are well capable as off-road bikes. Some of us just spend more time riding them than videoing those exploits. It's actually hard to get good off-road footage on them at times, as you need a fast camera mule to get a 3rd party POV shot, unless of course you're happy with riders POV footage like mine.

CD is likely referring to areas around Mt Stromlo MTB Park, like this trail out the back, shot with a mate who was the local DH race co-ordinator, just in a lunchtime hit-out:
[youtube]_VRSyPay4hQ[/youtube]

And then there was this, shot in the earlier days when I was running much taller gearing on my Fighter, around the back of BloodRock trail:
[youtube]BmyChyVaIKM[/youtube]

These days, I like my riding technical, steep and tight. Don't need the risk exposure of combining all those factors with speed..which is a familiar story from many of my happy customers..who typically also have kids and businesses to run, but still want 'expression sessions' to honour the little dirt genie that lives inside them as well.

That looks like a lot of fun. I'm not knocking it. I know that riding a narrow board track is pretty difficult. Locally we have motorcycle rallys, mostly Harley's, with field events. I used to be really big into competition. Sometimes one of the events will involve riding a plank, and I know from experience that's pretty darn hard. Usually ours were a lot narrower that those, but even the ones it this vid take skill. That event was never my forte. I was always good at timed obstacle courses, and slow races.

 

[PRW]

went for a walk to the post office, and may have seen TV's future....View attachment 1

 

[Rodney64]

went for a walk to the post office, and may have seen TV's future....View attachment 1

The wheels are black

 

[Cowardlyduck]

CD is likely referring to areas around Mt Stromlo MTB Park

Actually no. I'm referring to Tuggeranong Pines. I still haven't made it to Stromlo, so can't comment much, but the stuff in your video looks sedate in comparison to some of the stuff out at Tuggeranong Pines.
Here: https://goo.gl/maps/vBROJ

I was out there the other day, not really intending to make a video, but left my handle bar cam recording anyway. So below is a quick out-take from the ride showing SOME of the more casual sections of the park.

[youtube]2w72O-sdggk[/youtube]
I was running these DMR Moto tires, which are great for street/ light dirt, but not at all great for that kind of riding, so you'll have to excuse my sissy attempt in the video above...I really didn't want to get a pinch flat.

This video gives a good perspective on what the Pines is really like.
[youtube]44iHFVDk0E0[/youtube]

I don't want to inflame all the loyal Stealth owners out there - but sometimes batteries don't last that long, as I posted some time ago....

Actually your right! My replaced mid 2012, repaired under warranty 4 times Fighter battery now only gives about 70% of it's original capacity till dead. It also sags down to ~44 under WOT hot off the charger if I let it take the full 65A, but because of that, I typically don't let it see anything north of about 45A these days.

What are your experience with Tire liners. And what brand are you using. And what would you recommend ?

I've had relatively good success just using an old tube as a tire liner. I use these very thick tubes, so that probably helps.

Cheers

 

[Rix]

CD is likely referring to areas around Mt Stromlo MTB Park

Actually no. I'm referring to Tuggeranong Pines. I still haven't made it to Stromlo, so can't comment much, but the stuff in your video looks sedate in comparison to some of the stuff out at Tuggeranong Pines.
Here: https://goo.gl/maps/vBROJ

I was out there the other day, not really intending to make a video, but left my handle bar cam recording anyway. So below is a quick out-take from the ride showing SOME of the more casual sections of the park.

I don't want to inflame all the loyal Stealth owners out there - but sometimes batteries don't last that long, as I posted some time ago....

Actually your right! My replaced mid 2012, repaired under warranty 4 times Fighter battery now only gives about 70% of it's original capacity till dead. It also sags down to ~44 under WOT hot off the charger if I let it take the full 65A, but because of that, I typically don't let it see anything north of about 45A these days.

What are your experience with Tire liners. And what brand are you using. And what would you recommend ?

I've had relatively good success just using an old tube as a tire liner. I use these very thick tubes, so that probably helps.

Cheers

CD, I saw at least 2 lines with jumps you should have taken, WTF? With the exception of the rocks in the beginning, that trails was butter dirt smooth. Yah, our batteries do break down after time. I have about 300 cycles on mine and recently moved my LVC from 69 back to 70 volts again, and dropped my CA Amps setting from 70Ah to 60Ah, of course with my 5405 on my 18MC rim with the 2.75 x18 SR241, this combo with the reduced settings still provides some great performance. Should be noted that originally my LVC was factory preset at 70 volts and I experimented with different LVC settings. Stealth used to advertised 800 and now 600 charge/discharge cycles for battery life, and I believe we could all get that if we rode every day over a 2 year period. And if we were to drop our menu settings to say 36Ah, or 2C, batteries would probably give us many more cycles than that. But whether the battery is used or not, the chemistry starts degrading over time as you know and are seeing with your stock unit. And if it just sits in storage and parasitically discharges itself over a long period of time with out recharging, the degrade can be accelerated. That's just the way it is. If there is one thing anyone in the market for a 2nd hand (used) ebike needs to understand, just can't be certain what the condition the battery will be because of these different and unknown factures. If I was to buy any used Ebike, it would be under the presumption that the battery would need replacing, hello Hi C Lipos conversion . I read some Chinese battery manufactures data that LifePo4 chemistry is good for seven years and 2000 cycles with 80% capacity after that much use. Those ratings were for 1 and 2C cells. By comparison, our batteries are hi performance Thorougbreds. Stealth is tight lipped about are batteries continues C rate, I don't know what it is, but I am guessing its between 5C and 10C when new and fresh. A while back, you posted some pics on a lipo conversion you had done to your Fighter. What happened with that? Seems to me that after you are finished with your current battery, you should build yourself a 14S pack and use your stock fighter charger for bulk charging. Provided all your cells were good, your bulk charger would cut off at 4.17 volts per cell. Food for thought.

Rick

 

[biknut]

went for a walk to the post office, and may have seen TV's future....View attachment 1

OMG, that's actually starting to look good to me, it's only a matter of time. I started out on 3 wheels, and that's probably how it will end lol.

 

[Allex]

Kind of dead in here. No one talks about techs
This weekend I opened up the motor to put in a thermistor(which came with my new controller from Adaptto), numbers are fun, so why not have the temperature info? If you have a bike with CA3 this method could be used as well. Because it can read motor temp and regulate the power output if the temperature rise to a certain value.
Did not have a gear puller so I took two long threaded rods, put them in the disc brake holes and slammed light with a hammer. Mark the cover sides with some tape to put it back as it was.


Next, access the black wires which goes to the halls. One end of the thermistor will go together with the black(ground) the other one(signal, white) will go out of the motor axle(thx Andreym)


Solder the wires on and put shrink tube on the exposed parts, only leaving the themistor visible.

Disconnect the black ground wire, the one that goes out through the axle and solder one end of the thermistor, cover everything with shrink tube again.

Next we need to put the little guy inside the windings, find a place where it can sit tight. Put some thermal paste in that area and press carefully the little one in, this way we will have a good contact with the windings for more accurate readings.

After that, secure it with some high temp silicone gasket, now he will not go anyware

 

[Rix]

Nicely done Allex. What temp thermasistor are you using? Stator looks great compared to my 5404. Its not smoked, but the winds are a lot darker than yours.

Rick