E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Rix]

RIX, how did you go about getting 5kw out of your Fighter or did I miss one of your posts detailing it?
Proper, your 5404 wheel will now come with axle nuts, brake spacer, Magura disc, White Industries freewheel, axle lock as well as the new Shinko SR241 if you are still interested. Glad you got things sorted out.

Got a modded controller. Bursting 90 amps @ 55volts, sag from 58.8. Didn't post anything about it. This was back when Allex was turning his Bomber into a 12KW monster . Did mention anything about it, figured it would sound pretty lame bragging about 5kw when Allex was pulling 2.5 times that .

Rix, that is some big ass rocks there, they are sharp too, no wonder you need moped tyres there!

Yep Allex, this why I need to run MC/Moped tires on the rear. The front is more than adequate for the job.

Rix...incredible terrain you get to ride

Yah, Proper its really neat out here in the middle of nowhere. Rough as $h!t, wouldn't have any other way.

 

[morati]

Got a modded controller. Bursting 90 amps @ 55volts, sag from 58.8. Didn't post anything about it. This was back when Allex was turning his Bomber into a 12KW monster . Did mention anything about it, figured it would sound pretty lame bragging about 5kw when Allex was pulling 2.5 times that
RIX, I'm a little curious.....What did you do to modify your controller in order to handle bursts of 90a?

 

[Rix]

Got a modded controller. Bursting 90 amps @ 55volts, sag from 58.8. Didn't post anything about it. This was back when Allex was turning his Bomber into a 12KW monster . Did mention anything about it, figured it would sound pretty lame bragging about 5kw when Allex was pulling 2.5 times that
RIX, I'm a little curious.....What did you do to modify your controller in order to handle bursts of 90a?

PM sent.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

PM sent.

Lol, now I'm curious too...care to share with us all?

Cheers

 

[remf]

Maybe one of these (from Allex)?

https://translate.google.com/transl...rev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=adaptto.ru&edit-text=

 

[Hyena]

Sweet vid Rix!

Lol, now I'm curious too...care to share with us all?

Have y'all forgotten my old fighter
I was running 100 amps for peaks of 9kw depending on battery configuration.
Those that have been around for a few years will remember the "methods controllers" -these were 100V, 100A 18 fet units made by crystalyte and tricked up by methods. These days these 18 fet 4110 controllers are nearly identical to those used in the fighter and bomber and are capable of a fair bit more power out of the box with just reprogrammed software (at your own risk of course and naturally stealth doesn't run them at their limit)

 

[Emmett]

Wow...That's all I have to say about having an axle lock on my rear wheel! I honestly can't believe that I've been riding without one.

I'm surprised these bikes were at one stage sold without one. Regen torque on the axle feels high to me. Even drive torque feels substantial enough, especially if you add in some vibration and hard impacts.

Latest Video of my 5KW Stealth Fighter in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItGLqH7Jq3k

Good entertainment Rix. Thanks.

Are you still using the RST R1 fork? I cannot remember and I'm too lazy to search back, sorry.

Reason I ask is because I'm very happy with my modified DNM USD-8 fork. This is after my second go inside changing the shim stacks. I think anyone with basic mechanical skills could do the same mods with ease. On rough medium pace trails, they are way better than they were stock, and in another league compared to the R1.

Some video would be interesting. So in the next couple of weeks, I'll buy the required GoPro mount to attach the camera to the frame looking forward past the forks.

 

[proper159]

Wow...That's all I have to say about having an axle lock on my rear wheel! I honestly can't believe that I've been riding without one.

I'm surprised these bikes were at one stage sold without one. Regen torque on the axle feels high to me. Even drive torque feels substantial enough, especially if you add in some vibration and hard impacts.

I was just thinking that. Anyone with an older Stealth needs to order an Axle lock. I nearly had a catastrophic accident when the axle sheared into two parts. I can't believe how different the ride is now, way smoother, much better turns after sinking into one using regen and leaning into a throttle. Although it was Sunday yesterday, I shaved off 12-15 minutes on my 35 km commutes by picking better lines and attacking the turns. So stoked!

 

[Emmett]

My question to anyone in the know is ... If I bought a second wheel, with a H4065 (4-wind) Crystalyte motor in it (and the required axle), will it plug straight in and function correctly with my 2014 Fighter's controller which today works with my H4080 ("custom" 3-wind) motor?

Reason I ask is that I'll happily trade some top speed for superior energy efficiency at low speeds with high torque output. I'm rarely above 40 km/h, but very often full power in offroad. If I don't go real easy on the throttle then I'll always trigger the thermal sensor limiter before running out of battery. I understand I must consider hub cooling, but it seems best to have a motor that makes least heat for my kind of usage. I want least heat, most torque and range, and 40 km/h top speed would be fine. I just want to get to 40 very quickly, and do that a lot!

Here are some related quotes:

I can certainly understand why our motors get hot. Every time I reset my CA it has a 65-67 amp max recorded. That's a huge amount of current. It's hard for me to even imagine how the winding can handle that.

Pretty sure stock Fighters are 4065's. I have a 4080 with similar top speed to Rick's bike - around 43 mph. I agree that the 4065 is best for trails, especially climbs. I remember riding a local trail a while back where I hit a steep, rocky climb. No way the 4080 was going to make it so I pushed it up...the 4065 would have made it easily. I've tried the new Fighter and it's probably the best choice for most riding conditions, especially for twisty technical trails and big climbs.

if you're going to do alot of slow speed offroading and climbing the 65 is the way to go as it's more efficient down low. If you want a top speed over 60 then the 80 is the way to go. If you exercise some self constraint and aren't super concerned about efficiency (ie squeezing out maximum range) then the extra mid range acceleration that comes with a higher top speed is nice with the H4080 (assuming you have a high current limit)

crystalyte have a bit of a whacky naming convention. The 40 relates to the stator width (ie 40mm) and the second number relates to the speed in a 26" wheel and a given voltage. When crystalyte first started making the H series they were available in H3525 and H3540. These did either 25 or 40km/hr in a 26" wheel on 36v (ie a standard mountain bike sort of package) Then stealth started using them in the older fighters and specced them to run on 48v. Crystalyte then changed the naming code to suit running on 48v, and the fighter motors because known as H3548 (which were probably just 36v HS3540s run on 48v) Then when they announced the H40 motors I asked them to be specced to run on 72v and they came out with the H4065 and H4080 - meaning a 40mm stator that does 65 or 80km/hr on 72v in a 26" wheel.
The crowns used to be just TC80 or TC65 as they only had a 40mm variant so they dropped that part of the name. But they now have thinner models of the crown as well, hence the name is now TC4080 etc or TC35 for the thinner ones.

... in early 2013. I contacted Stealth about a replacement and they informed me they had moved to the HS40 series motors. I specifically requested a HS4065, which they were more than happy to do. From memory it was $750 shipped and laced into one of the Stealth rims.
Earlier this year, I managed to partially toast my HS4065 pushing 6+KW through it. I've since resurrected it and am running it again now, but that's a whole other story.
Anyway, at that point I contacted Stealth again to get another motor. This time they informed me they no longer offered the HS4065, and that Stealth got a custom wind of the HS40 from Crystalyte that's closer to the HS4080. This time the cost was $900...less than a year later. Anyway, from my above experience I'm pretty sure all Fighters now come with a HS4080. Stealth do replace the axle, and install a thermister, although I don't think it's really a custom wind, just a HS4080 with mods.
I could be wrong on the custom wind thing though. If the HS4065 is 4 turns, I'm assuming the 4080 is 3...there's no way to do something in between is there?

 

[Rix]

My question to anyone in the know is ... If I bought a second wheel, with a H4065 (3-wind) Crystalyte motor in it (and the required axle), will it plug straight in and function correctly with my 2014 Fighter's controller which today works with my H4080 ("custom" 4-wind) motor?

Reason I ask is that I'll happily trade some top speed for superior energy efficiency at low speeds with high torque output. I'm rarely above 40 km/h, but very often full power in offroad. If I don't go real easy on the throttle then I'll always trigger the thermal sensor limiter before running out of battery. I understand I must consider hub cooling, but it seems best to have a motor that makes least heat for my kind of usage. I want least heat, most torque and range, and 40 km/h top speed would be fine. I just want to get to 40 very quickly, and do that a lot!

Here are some related quotes:

I can certainly understand why our motors get hot. Every time I reset my CA it has a 65-67 amp max recorded. That's a huge amount of current. It's hard for me to even imagine how the winding can handle that.

Pretty sure stock Fighters are 4065's. I have a 4080 with similar top speed to Rick's bike - around 43 mph. I agree that the 4065 is best for trails, especially climbs. I remember riding a local trail a while back where I hit a steep, rocky climb. No way the 4080 was going to make it so I pushed it up...the 4065 would have made it easily. I've tried the new Fighter and it's probably the best choice for most riding conditions, especially for twisty technical trails and big climbs.

if you're going to do alot of slow speed offroading and climbing the 65 is the way to go as it's more efficient down low. If you want a top speed over 60 then the 80 is the way to go. If you exercise some self constraint and aren't super concerned about efficiency (ie squeezing out maximum range) then the extra mid range acceleration that comes with a higher top speed is nice with the H4080 (assuming you have a high current limit)

crystalyte have a bit of a whacky naming convention. The 40 relates to the stator width (ie 40mm) and the second number relates to the speed in a 26" wheel and a given voltage. When crystalyte first started making the H series they were available in H3525 and H3540. These did either 25 or 40km/hr in a 26" wheel on 36v (ie a standard mountain bike sort of package) Then stealth started using them in the older fighters and specced them to run on 48v. Crystalyte then changed the naming code to suit running on 48v, and the fighter motors because known as H3548 (which were probably just 36v HS3540s run on 48v) Then when they announced the H40 motors I asked them to be specced to run on 72v and they came out with the H4065 and H4080 - meaning a 40mm stator that does 65 or 80km/hr on 72v in a 26" wheel.
The crowns used to be just TC80 or TC65 as they only had a 40mm variant so they dropped that part of the name. But they now have thinner models of the crown as well, hence the name is now TC4080 etc or TC35 for the thinner ones.

I could be wrong on the custom wind thing though. If the HS4065 is 4 turns, I'm assuming the 4080 is 3...there's no way to do something in between is there?

[/quote]

Thanks Emmet, yah still riding the stock RSTs. I am starting to think that maybe I just got a freakishly good set of forks. No stiction unlike my 2012 RST. This RST worked better than my 2012 revalved Zock 888s and as you may recall, the 2012 Zock was a HUGE improvement over my 2012 RST on my Bomber. I have no intentions of changing my 2014 RST out. It works and works well for me. As far as motors go, I believe the 4080 has a 4 turn stator, and the 4065 has a 5 turn stator. If Crystalyte had a 40100 it would be a 3 turn stator. I base my conclusions on the TC series, the TC100 is a 3 turn, the TC80 is a 4 turn, and the TC65 is a 5 turn. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Being that Stealth uses a Crystalyte controller, and hub motor, you should be able to order one that would plug in directly. What the problem may be is Stealth uses a 162mm axle on both the 54xx Bomber and 40xx Fighter. What I don't know is, if you can order a 40xx with the 162mm axle. Does anyone know if this is the case or not?

 

[Rix]

Sweet vid Rix!

Lol, now I'm curious too...care to share with us all?

Have y'all forgotten my old fighter
I was running 100 amps for peaks of 9kw depending on battery configuration.
Those that have been around for a few years will remember the "methods controllers" -these were 100V, 100A 18 fet units made by crystalyte and tricked up by methods. These days these 18 fet 4110 controllers are nearly identical to those used in the fighter and bomber and are capable of a fair bit more power out of the box with just reprogrammed software (at your own risk of course and naturally stealth doesn't run them at their limit)

Now you know CD. I will be buttering up the shunt on my new 24Fet Crystalyte controller as well, and then send it off to super secret source and have him solder a program cable into the controller and program my controller to hit hard and maximum over speed % Wish I knew more about this but I don't.

 

[Emmett]

Being that Stealth uses a Crystalyte controller, and hub motor, you should be able to order one that would plug in directly. What the problem may be is Stealth uses a 162mm axle on both the 54xx Bomber and 40xx Fighter. What I don't know is, if you can order a 40xx with the 162mm axle. Does anyone know if this is the case or not?

Thanks. Ignoring axle diffs, do you mean that a H4065 motor can plug into my existing Crystalyte controller? Great if possible, but although this is new to me, I'd guess that's not possible because an extra motor winding means different wiring and controller logic - right?

Re forks: Yeah maybe RST use different seal material on different batches of R1 forks. The problem with my R1 fork wasn't just the stiction. The stock valving was bad too, but fairly easily fixed, as per a previous post I wrote. And I thought they flexed too much.

I'm loving my Fighter. Just have to resolve this motor heat limitation so the bike can go harder for longer. Having a second complete wheel would be ideal. That is with the most suitable motor, and vented for decent air flow in dry conditions.

 

[Rix]

Thanks. Ignoring axle diffs, do you mean that a H4065 motor can plug into my existing Crystalyte controller? Great if possible, but although this is new to me, I'd guess that's not possible because an extra motor winding means different wiring and controller logic - right?

Re forks: Yeah maybe RST use different seal material on different batches of R1 forks. The problem with my R1 fork wasn't just the stiction. The stock valving was bad too, but fairly easily fixed, as per a previous post I wrote. And I thought they flexed too much.

I'm loving my Fighter. Just have to resolve this motor heat limitation so the bike can go harder for longer. Having a second complete wheel would be ideal. That is with the most suitable motor, and vented for decent air flow in dry conditions.

Yes the 4065 should plug straight into the controller. But there is catch to this statement, at anytime, Crystalyte can change their plugs from Xt150s to something else. I know this because the first 5404 I got, I had to cut, splice and extend the phase wires, and then solder xt150s to them for my Bomber. It was easy, the pain in the arse part was extending the sensor wires to reach the sensor plug on the controller. that small black wire you got next the bigger yellow, green, and blue, is actually a housing for 5 really small 24g wires. I had to get an "extra set of hands" from radio shack and spliced twice so I could extend the sensor wires. I made it work, and its still running 2 years later on the Bomber my dad has. Where are you getting your 4065 from? Ask whoever is selling it to make sure the sensor and phase wires are about 19" long coming from the axle channel, and make sure they have XT150 male connectors on them, also known as 6mm bullet connectors. You should be fine.

 

[Emmett]

Rix, thanks. that's good news.

I've no clue yet where I'll buy anything from. Any advice very welcome. I've saved your advice regarding wire lengths and connector types.

Regarding the diff speed motors on the same controller: I understand the trade-off between speed and torque, but I dont yet understand the signalling from the controller to the motor. I've not unplugged any of those cables on my bike, or removed the rear wheel yet. I had a read of this http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/EBike_Controllers which doesn't help. I've seen how-to videos on youtube about hub motor maint. Based of other articles I read about DC brushless motors, I thought the number of electromagnet circuits in the motor would have to match the wire signalling and controller. eg. 4 circuits = 4 pairs of electromagnets = 4 power lines from the controller. Not so?

 

[Hyena]

I've no clue yet where I'll buy anything from. Any advice very welcome

If only there was someone in Sydney with well documented experience in modifying and hotting up stealth fighters... :wink:
I'm not sure what the conditions are with stealth warranty these days but I suspect swapping out motors and such will void your warranty.
Still, what you're proposing is essentially risk free as you're making the bike more efficient rather than pushing the performance envelope like most people want to do.

 

[remf]

Great vid Rick.

Here's another one which rocks.

[youtube]L63Zn7tSAXw[/youtube]

 

[Rix]

Rix, thanks. that's good news.

I've no clue yet where I'll buy anything from. Any advice very welcome. I've saved your advice regarding wire lengths and connector types.

Regarding the diff speed motors on the same controller: I understand the trade-off between speed and torque, but I dont yet understand the signalling from the controller to the motor. I've not unplugged any of those cables on my bike, or removed the rear wheel yet. I had a read of this http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/EBike_Controllers which doesn't help. I've seen how-to videos on youtube about hub motor maint. Based of other articles I read about DC brushless motors, I thought the number of electromagnet circuits in the motor would have to match the wire signalling and controller. eg. 4 circuits = 4 pairs of electromagnets = 4 power lines from the controller. Not so?

Emmett, get a hold of Jay (aka Hyena). He will hook you up like a tow truck. I can personally vouch for Jay's custom ebike kits. BTW, Hey Jay, that 12s MAC 10 kit of yours that we built up on the slalom hard tail in Yosemite in May 2013, is still going strong, and now my uncle has upgraded the battery to 12s 24ah unit with six HK 6s 8000Mah packs. Getting huge range out of it. Your 2kw Neutron kit is being used for 3-4 trail rides a week by my uncle, whos been riding with my dad on my old Bomber.

Great vid Rick.

Here's another one which rocks.

Thanks Remf, just watched the vid, kid can ride. Very nice professional quality vid as well.

 

[proper159]

What do I need to do to weatherize my Stealth bomber? I know I have to re wire the Hal connector to a waterproof one, but I feel overall the bomber is hydrophobic, especially with the exposed controller.

 

[QMS]

Hi guys, here's a couple of pics of a before & after, after a bunch of mods to Bomber no.277. This Bomber may be for sale in the near future too.

Below is a bunch of random pics we took last weekend at Glenelg SA.

This image shows the best Stealth security I can think of!

 

[biknut]

[/quote]

That's an interesting headlight. I like it. Electric bicycles should have 21st century looking headlights.

 

[QMS]

That's an interesting headlight. I like it. Electric bicycles should have 21st century looking headlights.

Hey TV, We have been using this headlight for a while and its great but the factory Stealth version is a much better overall unit.

 

[biknut]

For some reason I've never been able to warm up to the dual headlight look. One is ok, and three is good, but two? I've never seen a bike with two headlights that I thought looked right.

I like this one, which is the same as CD's, as much as any I've seen on a Stealth. This one looks small on the bike, and makes the bike look over muscled. In addition it puts out over 800 lm, but only draws about 1/4 amp. $36 shipped was a deal too. The only problem is it's so bright I have to aim it toward the ground to keep from blinding oncoming traffic, and you have to make your own mount.

 

[Allex]

It's not that it is too bright. It has wrong throw for road use. Those lights shine all over the place so they need a diffuser
http://www.amazon.com/MagicShine-Gemini-Lights-Headlight-Includes/dp/B004WLCLQY

 

[Rix]

Very nice Bombers QMS. Should have no problem selling them.

 

[QMS]

For some reason I've never been able to warm up to the dual headlight look. One is ok, and three is good, but two? I've never seen a bike with two headlights that I thought looked right.

I like this one, which is the same as CD's, as much as any I've seen on a Stealth. This one looks small on the bike, and makes the bike look over muscled. In addition it puts out over 800 lm, but only draws about 1/4 amp. $36 shipped was a deal too. The only problem is it's so bright I have to aim it toward the ground to keep from blinding oncoming traffic, and you have to make your own mount.

Hey TV, There are plenty of good cheap lights out there and looks aren't everything. Performance in regards to durability & brightness tend to be peoples' main concern. When you're belting down the trail in the middle of the night the brighter the better & the Stealths' 1720 lm is pretty much bright enough most of the time. It has a high and low load & a flashing mode also plus it can also be removed really quickly if necessary.

Hey Rix, We don't think we will have too much trouble selling this Bomber either it has only done around 700kms too.