E-Scooter project build. 50 kw peak (video online page 4)

hi guys!

topic today: WHAT THE frock IS WRONG WITH KELLY?! :evil:



after 3 days of fighting with that rubish USB to R232 converter i gave up and try to contact kelly service for help.
i got one guy on the phone yesterday but he seems to know nothing and suggest me restart mein computer couple of times :shock: :roll:

today i send message to the chinese phone number directly. after nobody answered i called them:

"hello this is steam, you send my controller 3 days ago to shenzhen and i need your help to install the drivers for USB converter. :wink: "

he: "no i refuse to help you. go to find the person you buy it and dont ask me anymore!" *CLICK* (cut the phone without any word) :shock:

SERIOUSLY KELLY?! :evil:

first i thought he might be pissed cause i bought some fake stuff from others but i got original parts and pay full price! so what the heck is going on?
bike is ready for testride but rgen voltage is too high and no LVC is set so i cant go out even try it! because of this crazy USB converter thing.
anybody can help me? i tried:

install 15 different drivers from every webside i found, read every forum about this topic and solutions to fix the ERROR CODE 52 while install drivers.
i uninstal older drivers, restart, install new, restart, plug in, error blablabla. i deleted ol driver from regestry too. try to use INSTALL AS ADMIN and different compatibility modes. all ends in the same error 52 and win7 suggest me to get significated driver.

 
I must to restart the computer everytime I want to launch Kelly software.
But I believe you have already tried that :D I am running Windows 7.
 
i cant open he software even once cause the driver csnt install for usb shit.
i never see the programm itself except for photos.
 
ok i got it!
i need to hit F8 when restart to force the signification for drivers off.
i was able to set up the kelly.

everything to max.

AND OH BOY IS THAT SCOOTER SLOWLY NOW! :shock:

maybe i didnt find the right configuration yet but i am pretty sure it is on 100% everything. throttle signal, pahse current and battery current. (that can only set up to 70% max? why?)

acceleration is soso...my 6000W bike goes far better. even my 100A testcontroller on the scooter let the wheel burnout on sand. the kelly?....well today test it first time and couple of times i was afraid to fall asleep. throttle response is also too soft. like a grandmother scooter now. infinion 24FET really scared the crap out of me! :shock:

any idea guys? :|
 
MY KELLY SETTINGS:

forward switch DISABLE
foot switch DISABLE
htrottle sensor type: 0-5V
effective starting: 20%
effective ending 80% (i tried lower configs but then motor cant stop so i went back to normal)
max motor current: 100%
max battery cirrent: 70% (i think i already know why 70% is max. because that means only in high speed. at low speed its 100% automaticly right?)

(i want the scooter as agressive as possible)

startup delay: 0sec
hall sensors at 120°
controll mode: BALANCED ( i tried torque and speed but balanced seems have best acceleration) or not?
under voltage 60V
over 90V
throttle up/down rate: 1 fastest
power on high pedal ENABLE
releasing brake high pedal: DISABLE

general settings: (like boost´and stuff) ALL DISABLED!
motor top speed 100%

REGEN: ENABLE
brake switch: DISABLE
release throttle start regen: 20% max
no brake switch on yet so rest i leave stock

temp sensor: KTY84-130 as the installed sensor in quanshun 8000W motor is same.
controller stop temp: 125C°
resume 110C°

SMOOTH SETTINGS: ALL DISABLE


i think my smal test battery limits the power too. but why my infunion controller on same battery goes like hell and kelly is soooooo soft and slowly? i expected to crap myself with the kelly. but now i am little disappointed.
 
i just connect scooter to computer and checked again. all settings wasnt same as i set before. so i set all again and confirmed that. i just ride 10m in my living room but nearly hit the door at the end. looking much better now and motor is TEEEEEEEERRIBLE loud from still! :mrgreen:

feels like power!
tomorrow i will test it outside.

hey by the for all guys who wanted to know about the new ADELIN brakes:

these brakes are definetely no toys! they are brutal and VERY powerful! i didnt used them often because regen kicks in hard but 2 times a car in front of me did something stupid and i push a little harder. helmet dipped nearly on my cockpit! haha :mrgreen:
 
What is the no load battery current? ie wheel off ground full throttle. Louder noise on launch is common symptom of incorrect phase/hall wiring configuration. With new rig always check no load current before riding, and on first test ride check current at low speeds. Our motors can run and drive the bike with a "false positive" wiring combo, which can quickly damage a controller and/or motor, so always verify the config is good before pushing to high performance.
 
hi john,
thanks for the tip. but these beginner mistakes i dont do anymore. no load check is around 10A and all halls +phase are correct.
i am outside right now. acceleration is better. but still not same as my 100A infinion.
there is also a lag when i am on 30-40kpm and hit full throttle. like half second happen nothing and then scooter accelerate softly. i want that more hard. battery lipo pack will arrive next monday or tuesday and it can 800A peaks easy.
kelly should better start impress me soon or i will send it back. until now i am not scared at all from this scooter. but before with the small and weak testcontroller i really was. wondering what could be the reason?
 
I am also disappointed with Kelly.
I own 300A KHB version. Acceleration is very poor, especial at low speed. I have noticed that below 30km/h is max output current 60A. After I hit 40km/h then it start raising 50,100,150A...up to 266A Actually Amps rise just like the vehicle speed. Faster you go, higher are Amps.
 
It's just a matter of settings. One of my guys didn't get his double Kelly's to fly until he put Balance mode. Neither Torque nor Speed modes had good acceleration for some reason.

10A no load, at what rpm? Wired right but kinda high for the latest motors...must be 0.5mm laminations on the stator.
 
There is almost no difference between torque or balance mode. Perhaps 5A more in balance mode at low speed. If I stop on a step road, I can barely start rolling. There is absolutely no torque.
 
yes same here.
today i throw together 2 lifepos out my ebikes to get 40Ah at 72V and i did a looooong test ride to next city.

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acceleration is very poor when i start from zero. how can we get that higher?
its like i said: infinion 24FET cheap 100$ china controller let me do burnouts on gravel like there is no morning on a 25Ah 72V pack!
set kelly to balance today and everything on maximum. it makes alot loud noise but no sign for power! it really start to piss me off. infinion was also alot more quiet and let the amps jump up from zero to 300A in a millisecond.
i will try to contact kelly again and find out whats going on.
the 60A limitation from start is exactly what it feels like. when i go faster the amps raising and then the scooter goes. but thats not my intention. i am not interested to go high speed. i want that thing take off like a rocketship :evil:
now its more like a very loud wheelchair

range is pretty cool because the low power though... :roll: so i ride for hours until night and back.
fixed the brake and some other stuff.

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well, i send email to the support from kelly. beg them for a firmware without crippled "safety features" :roll: :?
if there is no chance to deactivate them or find another way to give me 200A from zero km/h i might start to search for a new controller.

any suggestions?

my battery specs: 300A continious 600A peak lipos @21s 88,2V fully charged and 70-105Ah (first 70ah and 1 month later 105Ah)
i want: that my rim rotate inside the tire :twisted:

why i bought kelly because this is on there webside (green is what kelly write):

*brushless motor controller outputs high taking off current*
since when are 20-60A high taking off currents :?:

*Motor speed controller can work with relative small battery, but provide good acceleration and hill climbing*

well...yeah but no. i dont feel the "good acceleration" :cry:

Battery current limiting available, doesn’t affect taking off performance.
thats right because whatever i set up. the "taking off performance" is still like a very loud but slowly wheelchair :evil:

More startup current ,can get more startup speed
in what universe does this happen? :shock:

Current multiplication: Take less current from battery, output more current to motor
further comment is unnecessary... :roll:
 
well the fact your CA shows low amperage could be explained by the fact that motor current (phase current) isnt the same as battery current.

at low speed, you can have only 20A battery current (what the CA measures) and still have 100-500A phase current (just an example)

i read the description from the controller you got, and the controller does have phase current limiting, so this could be it.

Could you post some screenshots from the setup software? i would like to see what parameters you can set.
there is mention of a "current control loop" in the description, so maybe this needs tuning (if possible)
 
there we go. yes i also read about the loop function but its for another controller and now i cant adjust anything except pages from 1 to 45 as you can see.
what other people experienced and i try to follow there adviced until now:

set the mode from TORQUE to BALANCED. (also tried speed but its even more slow at start) TORQUE is also very weak. BALANCED feels little better but its maybe placebo because others mention it.

there is another suggestion from a forum user i tried. he said when you set down the current limit the controller will use more power for take off. sounds crazy but i didnt let anything untried. i feel no difference.

then i tried to change the throttle to different settings and hope that the throttle signal was too weak before and thats why the controller dont give out more current at start but that wasnt the case either. got full 5V signal and i can set anything higher.

last hope i have is the "boost function" i will set it on a button which i bought today and hook it up as my new battery arrive next tuesday.
then try again wether there are any changes.

another thing some forum users expect before:
battery LVC should NOT set up via kelly but with cycle analyst for example because the kelly start to reduce much power long time before the battery come to the set up level. for example: i set up 61V as LVC in the kelly. and when the battery is at 70V i can see massive current drop because of that. if i set up LVC in kelly to 18V i can see much more current even at 60V.
so later i will use the CA to set up my LVC.

last thing i will try later are better battery connections and bigger cables. now i have most best 25mm² cable i can find around my city and bigest possible connectors but i soldered them which i should not but crimp right? after i get the big lipo battery which can stand 600A bursts without break a sweat i will check all connections and try again. but i expect not much difference.


well thats what i tried until now. i am also in close contact with a worker in kellys company and he try to help me. but now are holidays in china so i cant ask anything until next week.
i really hope i can get another firmware and disable all the crazy high safety features.



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what does the control mode change? step 2

i have no idea what it does, but try enabling "noise reduction [7]" in step 3 and see if something changes.

then try the "smooth setting" option in step 5.

is there anything in the manual about all these settings?

PS
while testing, i would not run 100% current, if something goes wrong you might blow up your controller
 
nieles said:
what does the control mode change? step 2

i update the informations in my last post. you can change from TORQUE (it was stock enabled and terrible slow)
to BALANCED (which people say its have the best take off performance even its still slow like hell)
to SPEED (which should have the slowest take of performance and better high speed- i tried and i feel no difference to balanced)

i have no idea what it does, but try enabling "noise reduction [7]" in step 3 and see if something changes.

NOISE REDUCTION is a mode to enable a kind of soft start o prevent the motor from ratteling. i tried once. take off performance is much slower and motor still very loud so i disable it again)

then try the "smooth setting" option in step 5.

SMOOTH SETTING sets up the speed between throttle input changes. (have it enabled in stock. feell little better when turn it off)


is there anything in the manual about all these settings?

PS
while testing, i would not run 100% current, if something goes wrong you might blow up your controller
Click to expand...

i already reduced it. take off is always same slowly and because i never try high speeds (motor is able to go up to 120-130km/h i just hit 85km/h once for a second.
kelly says the start current is always same "fast" (which means wheelchair-slow) and later when hit 20-30km/h the current limiters start to work.
 
and there is another thing i said before:

i had a small cheap chinese 24FET infinion test controller (in repair now cause some FETs dont like the heat inside battery box). and THAT was a beast against the kelly! 72V and 100A continious.
i saw peaks up to 350A and it make my scooter do burnouts on gravel. scared the crap out of me. and motor was very quiet!
since i got the kelly i dont need even think about trying that. and kelly make my motor sound like a gasoline engine. terrible loud and no power!
:roll:

i really try to solve this! and i hope we all can find a solution. still hoping for firmware changes to disable the crazy safety features from 10 years ago when the batteries probable cant handle more power or whatever.
i pay alot money for the kelly but i am really not impressed and i hear more and more people telling me the same. if i cant solve this i will go back to my cheap 100A controller and start improving it. before i burned it because no cooling at all and i ignore the temperature display. put some massive cooler and fans on this should do the trick and i really love that cheap controller specially it can connect directy to the CA without any external shunts.

so what do you think guys?
 
are you sure this is not a false positive hall combo (or you need 60 deg instead of 120 deg)

a motor makes more noise with a false positive, and cant deliver the power it should.

do you have the option to return the controller? because it doesn't perform like advertised?
 
So, I got an answer from Kelly and also from a guy who used those controllers in motorcycle racing.

This is the way how are Kelly controllers programmed. Controller is ramping down the current at low speeds. Probably for safety reasons. We can not change this settings.
It sux :roll: I will use the controller for other project and now try with Sevcon controller. I have already ordered Gen4 size6 :twisted: :shock:
 
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