IBScootn
100 W
The rocket stove mass heater uses a horizontal exhaust pipe so it doesn't interfer with your flat clean roof.
earthships
- Thread starter 2007blueprius
- Start date
2007blueprius
100 W
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2013
- Messages
- 258
I knew that, I also know several ways to go about masonary heaters, initially that was my idea a log cabin with a wood burner, I am trying to explore all options but combustion at the moment
2007blueprius
100 W
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2013
- Messages
- 258
I was kindof growing fond of the angled glass I liked it honestly, I drew this last night based on some of the disscussion here and other forum on angled glass, and drew it vertical instead, that alone simplifies the build a lot the third row of posts were there in the old one just to prop thet wall of glass up so I eliminated a third of the foundation work, some of the concerns that were brought up about sagging and sealing are much eliminated, I also moved the 2 ft rammed earth on the outside of the framework and gained some square footage , as for the roof I left it at 12 inch thick aprox R48 on a bad day, floor is about R24 and so are the walls, I read a bit on some of the work the sweedish have done particularily insulated shalow foundations, and drew mine like, I need to do more reading into the pasivehous came across the name briefly need to know more. in the end I am growing quite fond of this new drawing, maybe I'll have to tweek it some maybe more insulation in the roof, the winter sun exposure diminished a bit part because the 4 ft wall on the south side is closer to the living space but I can live with that most of you thought it was too much before even now still, I can live with it considering all the headackes it eliminates, and honestly I am not sure if heat gain in the winter will be affected at all due to the vertical angle but in the sunmer solstice sun the glass is at a much shallower angle hopefully bouncing off more light than it alows in, ( I know don't hope, rough gutt feeling for now once I decide on something we'll see about the math ) thanks to all that pitched in Read more: http://priuschat.com/threads/earthships.136092/page-4#ixzz2rnrasSy3 Follow us: @PriusChat on Twitter | PriusChat on Facebook
dogman dan
1 PW
I've seen the vid before, and earthships are a cool concept. However, I built houses for 30 years, and I have built normal looking stick built houses nearly as efficient thermally. Basically, it's a pretty simple concept, insulate the house. Not insulate to code, but insulate it well.
You can have pounding those tires, no thanks. But if you have a lot of hippies handy to pound them for a free meal, it would be quicker than making adobes for sure. Taos is lucky, they have that huge community of starving hippies nearby to tap into when they want tires pounded. Doing it yourself will kill you unless you are 21, or cost you 10-15 bucks an hour to hire it out. Normal street people aren't going to pound those tires for you cheap. Those Taos hippies were a priceless resource in the 80's. They'd pound tires all day for a bag of brown rice. Call it a buck an hour labor.
Solar gain rocks, but you don't need an earthship to enjoy it. I put a semi trombe wall (convecting solar thermal panels) on the south southeast facing wall of my house for a total cost of about $100. Scavenged the glass to make it cheap to do, and as soon as the sun comes up, I will open the vents and my ordinary built to code house will start heating itself till the sun angle gets bad at about 3 pm. The only modification I did to my house, was to quadruple the attic insulation. That cost me about $250 to blow in cellulose. I'd like to do the walls, but I would need to spend big bucks to do that. I would like to make a true trombe wall on my south side, but the cost is just too high. Since I don't have an earthship, I have a tree that is perfectly placed to shade that wall all morning in summer. In winter, the sun shines under the branches of the tree and hits my solar gaining front window and solar thermal panels. So I don't fry my house all summer, but my heat bill is very low. Not much here anyway, but lower than most people. No way I ever need the furnace on a sunny day.
So you see, I don't have an earthship, but I MADE MY HOUSE BEHAVE A LOT LIKE ONE, and at a very reasonable cost. I also have my rain gutters and yard slopes arranged so that roof water, if we ever get any, goes to my trees. I don't waste my roof runoff one bit.
In case you haven't figured it out, the greenhouse side of the earthship is just a large volume trombe wall. Sun shines in on some thermal mass. It doesn't make a bit of difference if it shines on floor, or wall. It just needs for the sunbeam to shine on thermal mass. So the type of roof or the angle of it does not matter. But it will matter hugely, that something somehow shades that solar gaining window in summer. I just grew a tree in the right places, so my south and west walls have summer shade, and winter sun.
Concrete floor is fine, since I keep so many dogs, I just ripped out the dirt gathering carpet, textured the floor, and painted it. Works great, and I can change the floor color for the cost of a gallon of paint anytime. Without the carpet, the sun that shines in my south window hits the concrete floor and stores some warmth there overnight. In my mild climate, most of my house maintains about 65f all winter by itself. One back bedroom with no sun all winter needs a tiny bit of heat, but the rest of the house stays fairly comfy for no money at all.
I had my dreams all my life of building a two brick thick adobe house, but it just couldn't happen without a bunch of money falling from the sky. Instead, I just made my house into as close to an earthship as I could. When I had a 14x 70 trailer house, project number one was to build a solar gaining greenhouse onto the southwest facing side. That trailer could not have the insulation improved, but I still had solar heat pouring into it right away. Stupid not to. It did ok till we could afford a real house, and within a few years we had this house performing a lot better than when we moved in. Took a few years for the trees to grow to really do the right shade in summer, but it works great now.
DON'T wait and dream, if you own anything, start improving it's thermal performance right now. Start with the low hanging fruit if you have an attic, get that attic to R 40 or better right away.
You can have pounding those tires, no thanks. But if you have a lot of hippies handy to pound them for a free meal, it would be quicker than making adobes for sure. Taos is lucky, they have that huge community of starving hippies nearby to tap into when they want tires pounded. Doing it yourself will kill you unless you are 21, or cost you 10-15 bucks an hour to hire it out. Normal street people aren't going to pound those tires for you cheap. Those Taos hippies were a priceless resource in the 80's. They'd pound tires all day for a bag of brown rice. Call it a buck an hour labor.
Solar gain rocks, but you don't need an earthship to enjoy it. I put a semi trombe wall (convecting solar thermal panels) on the south southeast facing wall of my house for a total cost of about $100. Scavenged the glass to make it cheap to do, and as soon as the sun comes up, I will open the vents and my ordinary built to code house will start heating itself till the sun angle gets bad at about 3 pm. The only modification I did to my house, was to quadruple the attic insulation. That cost me about $250 to blow in cellulose. I'd like to do the walls, but I would need to spend big bucks to do that. I would like to make a true trombe wall on my south side, but the cost is just too high. Since I don't have an earthship, I have a tree that is perfectly placed to shade that wall all morning in summer. In winter, the sun shines under the branches of the tree and hits my solar gaining front window and solar thermal panels. So I don't fry my house all summer, but my heat bill is very low. Not much here anyway, but lower than most people. No way I ever need the furnace on a sunny day.
So you see, I don't have an earthship, but I MADE MY HOUSE BEHAVE A LOT LIKE ONE, and at a very reasonable cost. I also have my rain gutters and yard slopes arranged so that roof water, if we ever get any, goes to my trees. I don't waste my roof runoff one bit.
In case you haven't figured it out, the greenhouse side of the earthship is just a large volume trombe wall. Sun shines in on some thermal mass. It doesn't make a bit of difference if it shines on floor, or wall. It just needs for the sunbeam to shine on thermal mass. So the type of roof or the angle of it does not matter. But it will matter hugely, that something somehow shades that solar gaining window in summer. I just grew a tree in the right places, so my south and west walls have summer shade, and winter sun.
Concrete floor is fine, since I keep so many dogs, I just ripped out the dirt gathering carpet, textured the floor, and painted it. Works great, and I can change the floor color for the cost of a gallon of paint anytime. Without the carpet, the sun that shines in my south window hits the concrete floor and stores some warmth there overnight. In my mild climate, most of my house maintains about 65f all winter by itself. One back bedroom with no sun all winter needs a tiny bit of heat, but the rest of the house stays fairly comfy for no money at all.
I had my dreams all my life of building a two brick thick adobe house, but it just couldn't happen without a bunch of money falling from the sky. Instead, I just made my house into as close to an earthship as I could. When I had a 14x 70 trailer house, project number one was to build a solar gaining greenhouse onto the southwest facing side. That trailer could not have the insulation improved, but I still had solar heat pouring into it right away. Stupid not to. It did ok till we could afford a real house, and within a few years we had this house performing a lot better than when we moved in. Took a few years for the trees to grow to really do the right shade in summer, but it works great now.
DON'T wait and dream, if you own anything, start improving it's thermal performance right now. Start with the low hanging fruit if you have an attic, get that attic to R 40 or better right away.
dogman dan
1 PW
Starting another post for talking about the dream house.
My dream house included some basic solar house stuff, but I wouldn't have called it an earthship per se, The core of the house would face south, be all glass, and have the long sloped overhang you need to shade the window in summer but allow a winter sunbeam to hit the glass. The exterior walls would not be adobe. But they would be R30 wood framed walls. The interior walls would be the adobe walls. That way all the heat or cool would have a huge thermal mass, but NONE of the thermal mass would be wasted on an exterior wall. Good as two foot thick adobe works, it simply does leak heat or cool. It leaks it so slow you don't have any daily variation, but it does leak. Same goes for tires, rammed earth, or brick. But it's just cheaper to build a well insulated stick wall than to insulate an adobe wall on the exterior. Of course, you would also have more than the usual insulation under your house slab, or if built above ground, an R 30 floor.
A vent system a bit more sophisticated than a ceiling fan. It would suck air from the high point of the solar gaining room, and distribute it to the shady side of the house. Clerestory windows on that wall that open of course, to vent out the hottest air in the house in summer. Possibly an air intake for summer, that travels through a pile of buried gravel.
The one problem I never came up with a really good solve for is heat loss at night, or on a storm day, through all that glass. So that solar gain room needs to be a bit on the small side in terms of floor space, and you must be able to close a door to it at night. This is a bit what they do in earthships, the solar gain room is the greenhouse, and at night in winter you close a vent or a door to that glass. Then the core house doesn't lose its heat. You just lose the heat in the greenhouse, and that is offset some by the warm floor.
Nice as it sounds to have a large open space like your living room in that solar gain area, it works better to have a second wall, much like the trombe wall concept. So you don't really get to enjoy the view out those windows as much as you might have liked, unless you go into the sun room. One option would be to have several layers of roof at different heights, allowing the inner living space to have windows that at least give a view of sky. Those windows are small enough to use curtains at night for them.
Summer cooling would be done at night, and the good insulation and thermal mass interior walls would store that cool for days at a time. Ideally, you'd not cool the house, but you would cool that pile of rock storage gravel. Then in the day, your convective flow out the clerestory windows would pull that cool into the house all day.
If in a climate that needed much heat beyond the solar heat, then you would heat with a radiant floor. It could be wood fired, but more likely just something that circulated from a gas or propane heater. It would be set to simmer at 50F most days, but easily turned up if you have a week of storms.
Solar PV panels on the property too of course, like a huge garage with the panels on the roof.
My dream house included some basic solar house stuff, but I wouldn't have called it an earthship per se, The core of the house would face south, be all glass, and have the long sloped overhang you need to shade the window in summer but allow a winter sunbeam to hit the glass. The exterior walls would not be adobe. But they would be R30 wood framed walls. The interior walls would be the adobe walls. That way all the heat or cool would have a huge thermal mass, but NONE of the thermal mass would be wasted on an exterior wall. Good as two foot thick adobe works, it simply does leak heat or cool. It leaks it so slow you don't have any daily variation, but it does leak. Same goes for tires, rammed earth, or brick. But it's just cheaper to build a well insulated stick wall than to insulate an adobe wall on the exterior. Of course, you would also have more than the usual insulation under your house slab, or if built above ground, an R 30 floor.
A vent system a bit more sophisticated than a ceiling fan. It would suck air from the high point of the solar gaining room, and distribute it to the shady side of the house. Clerestory windows on that wall that open of course, to vent out the hottest air in the house in summer. Possibly an air intake for summer, that travels through a pile of buried gravel.
The one problem I never came up with a really good solve for is heat loss at night, or on a storm day, through all that glass. So that solar gain room needs to be a bit on the small side in terms of floor space, and you must be able to close a door to it at night. This is a bit what they do in earthships, the solar gain room is the greenhouse, and at night in winter you close a vent or a door to that glass. Then the core house doesn't lose its heat. You just lose the heat in the greenhouse, and that is offset some by the warm floor.
Nice as it sounds to have a large open space like your living room in that solar gain area, it works better to have a second wall, much like the trombe wall concept. So you don't really get to enjoy the view out those windows as much as you might have liked, unless you go into the sun room. One option would be to have several layers of roof at different heights, allowing the inner living space to have windows that at least give a view of sky. Those windows are small enough to use curtains at night for them.
Summer cooling would be done at night, and the good insulation and thermal mass interior walls would store that cool for days at a time. Ideally, you'd not cool the house, but you would cool that pile of rock storage gravel. Then in the day, your convective flow out the clerestory windows would pull that cool into the house all day.
If in a climate that needed much heat beyond the solar heat, then you would heat with a radiant floor. It could be wood fired, but more likely just something that circulated from a gas or propane heater. It would be set to simmer at 50F most days, but easily turned up if you have a week of storms.
Solar PV panels on the property too of course, like a huge garage with the panels on the roof.
torker
100 kW
I got really lucky when I bought my house. It already has some of those features. It all it really needs is better windows. And a way to distribute the heat better. You can see my attempt to shade the west windows plus the frame that holds the polycarb is covered with plastic to help in the winter. Also I build my own storm windows and cover inside some with shrink plastic. The overhangs are about 5 ft. all around the house. Also you can see the type of windows I have all tip out=old.
Also the builder used 6 inch flagstone brick+6 inch cinderblock and 2 inch framing for all the exterior walls so all are 14 inches thick
Finally the house had a tar and gravel flat roof and they finally peaked the roof a few yrs. before I bought the house so it does not gain or lose any heat through the roof.
So I got lucky as I realized my utility bills in this house are half what my old 750 sq. ft. house were.
Also the builder used 6 inch flagstone brick+6 inch cinderblock and 2 inch framing for all the exterior walls so all are 14 inches thick
Finally the house had a tar and gravel flat roof and they finally peaked the roof a few yrs. before I bought the house so it does not gain or lose any heat through the roof.
So I got lucky as I realized my utility bills in this house are half what my old 750 sq. ft. house were.
2007blueprius
100 W
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2013
- Messages
- 258
I apreciate you both getting involved, part of the issue I am having is my location Michigan is very different than New Mexico or Kansas for that mater, I bumped into a couple people on other forum and debated this further, there is no way at least in theory a Global Model Earthship would do any good in MIchigan, there are some good concepts but the entire envelope must be a whole lot different, much like a German Passiv Haus would be more adequate.
we researched on various sites and software based on real data recorded by local weather stations, and ran some numbers, problem is althow New Mexico for example may reach the same low temperatures as Michigan they are short spikes and not as often, our lows show up in november and do not go away till spring, on average we get 3 hours of sunshine in the winter and it is still below freesing during the day ho the high noon temperatures that Newmexico sees in the winter are unheard of here, even the house that Dogman describes would not do too well up here that is average construction.
the whole tire concept I was not too excited about in the first place but I had considered it if it would do the trick, my concept is very similar to the one Dogman mentioned insulation on the outside thermal mass inside lots of southern only windows.
I have no interest improving my curent home as for personal reasons I prefer to move out in the boonies anyway, plus the orientation is backwords I have no room to properly install any pv or HWColectors, and I am tired of the suburbs I can allreadyy see the authorities at my door if I brought a windmill home, so I am starting with a blank sheet.
I prefer Rammed Earth over tires or adobe for several reasons, for one I have a large compressor allready, forms and a pogo stick are not much to gather, most of the material is on site and I can do it the industrial way and be done with it in one summer, I am not 21 anymore and even after ramming all those tires or building adobe you still have to plaster them paintthem, requires chicken wire and straw who know what else I will never finish this project, a rammed earth wall once you pull the forms is done, no finiosh required and I like the look it is supposed to help with humidity and we get plenty.
my major hurdle will be the windows, a plain double pane will net negative in my area, in other words the heat loss is greater than the gain, cooling is not much of an issue, althou most people are fanatics about AC if you pull the numbers I still have heating degree days in july which offset the CDD, in otherwords the average summer temperature is a comfy 74F, problem is most houses are built backwords, the one I am currently in has large windows east and west becaude the street is due west and the roof is nice black tar shingles gets up to 200F in july and cold as outside in the winter, yes I have about R 40 in the attic.
unlike an earthship the conclusion we came to is for my climate one wall of proper glass will do better than 2 double pane walls as they do in New Mexico Earthships while at the same time the green house will be maintained at the same temperature as the living space unlike the Earthships where it swings widely, up here such a green house space would be about half the temperature between the livingspace and outside.
a modern tripple pane would actually have a net positive even in Michigan winters, it is pretty much obvious that is the route I have to take, it is either that or build a normal house with few windows all facing south and heat with wood. I would like at all costs to stay away from any stacks through the roof if any supplemental heat is heeded solar colectors can help or electric heaters,
laying tires on the undisturbed subsoil as comonly done in New Mexico again it's a no no here, all the heat will sink to the ground as out mean subsoil temp is 47F, that would be nice for a summer cottage but I am more concerned with winter heating.
so that is where I am at this point, I like the idea of large south facing windows but I have to invest considerably there. further more we ran an app on PVWatts, its for solar pannels but energy is energy a outer glass perpendicular to the winter solstice actually gathers less energy in januarry and more in july than a vertical one plus the angled glass wall requires extra support and it is prone to leaks, and we do get about as much rain in 2 months that new mexico gets all year.
so this project is turning into a German Passivhause shell I wont be getting much net solar gain so must make the most of it, with lots of thermall mass inside and only south facing high teck insulating windows, the tripple panes allow less solar radiation through by a mean 15% ( wich will come in handy in the summer), but the loss is a fith compared to a plain double pane which for my climate I think we ended up with -5kwh/sqmeter for the month of januarry, the trippes scored 21kwh/sqmeter positive, that may off set the other losses all this is figured at 70F with R48 envelope except for roof R96, that is pretty much what I need to build
George
we researched on various sites and software based on real data recorded by local weather stations, and ran some numbers, problem is althow New Mexico for example may reach the same low temperatures as Michigan they are short spikes and not as often, our lows show up in november and do not go away till spring, on average we get 3 hours of sunshine in the winter and it is still below freesing during the day ho the high noon temperatures that Newmexico sees in the winter are unheard of here, even the house that Dogman describes would not do too well up here that is average construction.
the whole tire concept I was not too excited about in the first place but I had considered it if it would do the trick, my concept is very similar to the one Dogman mentioned insulation on the outside thermal mass inside lots of southern only windows.
I have no interest improving my curent home as for personal reasons I prefer to move out in the boonies anyway, plus the orientation is backwords I have no room to properly install any pv or HWColectors, and I am tired of the suburbs I can allreadyy see the authorities at my door if I brought a windmill home, so I am starting with a blank sheet.
I prefer Rammed Earth over tires or adobe for several reasons, for one I have a large compressor allready, forms and a pogo stick are not much to gather, most of the material is on site and I can do it the industrial way and be done with it in one summer, I am not 21 anymore and even after ramming all those tires or building adobe you still have to plaster them paintthem, requires chicken wire and straw who know what else I will never finish this project, a rammed earth wall once you pull the forms is done, no finiosh required and I like the look it is supposed to help with humidity and we get plenty.
my major hurdle will be the windows, a plain double pane will net negative in my area, in other words the heat loss is greater than the gain, cooling is not much of an issue, althou most people are fanatics about AC if you pull the numbers I still have heating degree days in july which offset the CDD, in otherwords the average summer temperature is a comfy 74F, problem is most houses are built backwords, the one I am currently in has large windows east and west becaude the street is due west and the roof is nice black tar shingles gets up to 200F in july and cold as outside in the winter, yes I have about R 40 in the attic.
unlike an earthship the conclusion we came to is for my climate one wall of proper glass will do better than 2 double pane walls as they do in New Mexico Earthships while at the same time the green house will be maintained at the same temperature as the living space unlike the Earthships where it swings widely, up here such a green house space would be about half the temperature between the livingspace and outside.
a modern tripple pane would actually have a net positive even in Michigan winters, it is pretty much obvious that is the route I have to take, it is either that or build a normal house with few windows all facing south and heat with wood. I would like at all costs to stay away from any stacks through the roof if any supplemental heat is heeded solar colectors can help or electric heaters,
laying tires on the undisturbed subsoil as comonly done in New Mexico again it's a no no here, all the heat will sink to the ground as out mean subsoil temp is 47F, that would be nice for a summer cottage but I am more concerned with winter heating.
so that is where I am at this point, I like the idea of large south facing windows but I have to invest considerably there. further more we ran an app on PVWatts, its for solar pannels but energy is energy a outer glass perpendicular to the winter solstice actually gathers less energy in januarry and more in july than a vertical one plus the angled glass wall requires extra support and it is prone to leaks, and we do get about as much rain in 2 months that new mexico gets all year.
so this project is turning into a German Passivhause shell I wont be getting much net solar gain so must make the most of it, with lots of thermall mass inside and only south facing high teck insulating windows, the tripple panes allow less solar radiation through by a mean 15% ( wich will come in handy in the summer), but the loss is a fith compared to a plain double pane which for my climate I think we ended up with -5kwh/sqmeter for the month of januarry, the trippes scored 21kwh/sqmeter positive, that may off set the other losses all this is figured at 70F with R48 envelope except for roof R96, that is pretty much what I need to build
George
torker
100 kW
As long as you shade the windows in the summer you should not gain much heat. Also the thermal mass helps in the summer also as long as u control the sun. If you can shade the walls in the summer they will cool off at night and keep you cooler in the day. My house stays cooler longer in the spring than most.
Also geothermal heat will help. Might as well tap into the earth and use that constant temp under your feet. Incorporate radiant heat. It won't to be cheap to build this way but if you plan on living there for a long time why not. It all adds up and makes the house so comfy all year.
If I ever get the chance I know how I would build. It wont like these thrown together spec houses they throw up these days. Course I may have to hit the lotto first
http://www.sunplans.com/open-house/__details/RISE/Rita_and_Sean/0
I like this plan.
Also geothermal heat will help. Might as well tap into the earth and use that constant temp under your feet. Incorporate radiant heat. It won't to be cheap to build this way but if you plan on living there for a long time why not. It all adds up and makes the house so comfy all year.
If I ever get the chance I know how I would build. It wont like these thrown together spec houses they throw up these days. Course I may have to hit the lotto first
http://www.sunplans.com/open-house/__details/RISE/Rita_and_Sean/0
I like this plan.
2007blueprius
100 W
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2013
- Messages
- 258
I came across that site last night browsing, for Kansas it will probably do well, even in Michigan it will do better than most, I am looking for something more drastic, I am curently paying a mortgage in a POS 1960 photocopied suburb house built in compete disregard for living costs, even if it comes to taking a loan realisticaly putting some thought into it does not cost extra, If the Germans can build a house that requires 10% of average energy use, some solar gain should compensate for that and the idea is that the expense of the insulation/glass is offset by the large HVAC equipment that is not necessary, reality is even if they endup costing a little extra that is easily offset by the energy costs relatively fast, not to mention hte enviromental aspects, thou most people are still not too concerned about that.
emmetbrown
10 W
As good as a "german Passiv Haus" looks like on paper, you all need to keep in mind
how much energy and oil is used up only to produce the insulation no one knows the lifespan of till now ( and when it comes off your walls in perhaps ten years you will have to
pay again for dumping? it ).
And YOU have to pay really big money for that type of insulation.
Also the type of glue ( don't know the right word for it, perhaps spray-foam? ) is suspected to be highly carcinogetic until hardened.
The whole house has to be sealed very good, which means you'll need a very good venting system, which is very expensive, too ( at least over here ) .
For all that money I bet you have to live twice at minimum ( and nothing should break at the house ) to save some bucks at the end.
There are ways to insulate more cost effective and ecologically.
One example is to build with straw and clay ( and wood-framing, of course ) . Excellent insulation and a very good climate inside the house ( self regulating humidity ) .
Just my opinion and experience.
Greetings,
Christian
how much energy and oil is used up only to produce the insulation no one knows the lifespan of till now ( and when it comes off your walls in perhaps ten years you will have to
pay again for dumping? it ).
And YOU have to pay really big money for that type of insulation.
Also the type of glue ( don't know the right word for it, perhaps spray-foam? ) is suspected to be highly carcinogetic until hardened.
The whole house has to be sealed very good, which means you'll need a very good venting system, which is very expensive, too ( at least over here ) .
For all that money I bet you have to live twice at minimum ( and nothing should break at the house ) to save some bucks at the end.
There are ways to insulate more cost effective and ecologically.
One example is to build with straw and clay ( and wood-framing, of course ) . Excellent insulation and a very good climate inside the house ( self regulating humidity ) .
Just my opinion and experience.
Greetings,
Christian
wineboyrider
1 MW
I lived in Germany for 2 1/2 years and most of the really efficient houses had masonry stoves thick walls and individual radiant heaters in every room. I even saw some solar heating with the vacuum tubes to provide hot water and radiant heat. But, the coolest way to heat your house in Germany is with wood and a kachelofen a high priced super crafted piece of combustion art. I have a friend that heat his entire house (guestimating around 2200 sq ft.) with only 1 square meter of oak wood ( holz starke!)
torker
100 kW
wineboyrider said:
Very good info ! Now I want one.. It is so funny that everything comes around to the old ways of doing things. The good ways. Eat the way we did 200 yrs. ago and kiss goodbye diabetes,cancer etc. Heat your house with a wood oven and save the natural gas for the vehicles/trucks, cars can be electric
Grow food in your yard or town and quit hauling it 1000 + miles.. I need to go sweep the snow off my solar panel. Snowing an inch an hour at the moment..
Forgot to add this link:http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/12/tile-stoves.html
2007blueprius
100 W
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2013
- Messages
- 258
I have previously looked into straw bales, and cob, they are all interesting concepts, some been around for ages, I grew up in Europe myself and my grandparents homes were adobe thou no fancy insulation or windows, terracotta woodburning heaters, much like the german kakalofens ( I'm sure I misspelled that one ), I know a lot about that and initially that was the idea, thing is I can tell you first hand my grandparents had a guest house built that way which they did not heat in the winter, thou there were no windows besides the south wall, when we went to visit first concern was to split wood before we even said good to see you, the bed sheets were frozen solid, granted it did not take long for that heater to get blazing hot, and I could not tell you how long it took for the house to cool off before we left.
one time my brother got too close to the heater and thou masonry construction he got his butt singed he wore that imprint for years just like marked cattle :lol: , than again we were getting that heater blazing asap so that the room was decent before night fall, the time we stayed there it would keep the heat over night, and the second day only needed a hand full of sticks.
as it was mentioned underground insulation, not so sure about that and its longevity, Passiv Haus appears more promising as it can be built in either which way your hart desires, granted I am not the type to compete to get a certificate and it doesn't have to be 90% efficient but there are some good lessons to be taught and good practices, as for the footprint of materials that was always considered, I would not consider that much hardboard insulation if it was all high end store bought fabricated 1000 miles away, recycling was always in the plan more so for a cost consideration than anything else, this whole project is more than housing I always kept a garden more so lately for my boy, even if symbolic we start our own seeds, last week he surprised me he had a pepper and picked out the seeds, only showed him all this last year he only turned 4, I definitely don't want him growing up thinking food grows in a semi truck, it is depressing what the world turned into not too long ago there was a protest in Ann Arbor , MI ( student town ) against GMO produce, the disgusting part thou well intended, was the whole mentality, the growers should , they should ....... every sentence, my question is who is they? and what are you doing about it besides bitching?
I am back to a blank sheet now, trying to keep an open mind, I kind of like the initial concept and geometry, I'll find some time to draw up a stick building double studded and foot thick walls see my thoughts on paper, in a similar manner as the Passvi Haus see what it looks like
George
one time my brother got too close to the heater and thou masonry construction he got his butt singed he wore that imprint for years just like marked cattle :lol: , than again we were getting that heater blazing asap so that the room was decent before night fall, the time we stayed there it would keep the heat over night, and the second day only needed a hand full of sticks.
as it was mentioned underground insulation, not so sure about that and its longevity, Passiv Haus appears more promising as it can be built in either which way your hart desires, granted I am not the type to compete to get a certificate and it doesn't have to be 90% efficient but there are some good lessons to be taught and good practices, as for the footprint of materials that was always considered, I would not consider that much hardboard insulation if it was all high end store bought fabricated 1000 miles away, recycling was always in the plan more so for a cost consideration than anything else, this whole project is more than housing I always kept a garden more so lately for my boy, even if symbolic we start our own seeds, last week he surprised me he had a pepper and picked out the seeds, only showed him all this last year he only turned 4, I definitely don't want him growing up thinking food grows in a semi truck, it is depressing what the world turned into not too long ago there was a protest in Ann Arbor , MI ( student town ) against GMO produce, the disgusting part thou well intended, was the whole mentality, the growers should , they should ....... every sentence, my question is who is they? and what are you doing about it besides bitching?
I am back to a blank sheet now, trying to keep an open mind, I kind of like the initial concept and geometry, I'll find some time to draw up a stick building double studded and foot thick walls see my thoughts on paper, in a similar manner as the Passvi Haus see what it looks like
George
IBScootn
100 W
Check out hempcrete:
http://www.americanlimetechnology.com/what-is-hempcrete/
12" = R24.
15% weight of concrete, locks up CO2, no problems with humidity. Needs load bearing posts, but sounds good and you can mix your own. Now that Colorado can grow hemp, if you moved here, you could grow the hemp too.
http://www.americanlimetechnology.com/what-is-hempcrete/
12" = R24.
15% weight of concrete, locks up CO2, no problems with humidity. Needs load bearing posts, but sounds good and you can mix your own. Now that Colorado can grow hemp, if you moved here, you could grow the hemp too.
Giovanni LiCalsi
100 W
Rastra is very good method of building walls.
http://www.rastra.com
http://www.rastra.com
zener
1 kW
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2014
- Messages
- 353
Is growing industrial hemp for every person allowed without a license requierment?IBScootn said:
Here in EU u need a license and its in most cases very very hard to get nearly impossible.
Sad becouse these hanf fibers and other products have such more benefits over there competitors... eg. mineralwool vs hempfibers
2007blueprius
100 W
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2013
- Messages
- 258
Giovanni LiCalsi said:
I came across the ICF concept at some point and it seems to be rather popular, I personally did not take much liking to it more so for the concrete factor, I don't know why just never cared much for it, I grew up in europe in a concrete highrise, also what they use there and I looked it up recently is AAC? autoclaved aerated concrete, its a hardened foam basically weighs a fith compared to concrete and if kept dry it actually has a decent R value, can't remember the numbers but the comon practice was not to use any other insulation, it's verry good fireproofing too. also I am keeping cost in mind and recycling, there is nothing to that factor there, concrete has a bad footprint same with the special foam formwork and they use lots of it special brackets and fittings, too much crap in my opinion, and at the endo of the day I want to say those forma are about 4 inches thick? 8 inch of eps is not that much insulation, the thermal mass is in the middle it doesn't make any sense, it's better than traditional that's for sure but kindof like "a small step for man insignificant for man kind" at least that's my take on it.
an interesting concept was the Sirewall I thought kindof same Idea, not enough insulation but more suistainable and some thermal mass on the interior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RnJZq9rbL8
looks better too and less work considering no other finishing needed, again a better way jus not sure if it's good enough, and particularily in the north turns out the thermal bridge to the ground is a bitch to insulate good enough for massive construction, few inches of hard foam is expensive and bearly putts a ding into it, too much and not sure of the stability now.
I have tinkered with a few ideas and it seems that light weight and lots of insulation seems like a better aproach, keep the floor off the ground easier to insulate and protect from the elements, lots of insulation reduce the demand and the window area needed, which is going to be most of the heat loss even good quality tripple panes, some thermal mass like tile floor, that's pretty much the direction I am heading now.
a basement slab or crawlspace is dificult to keep dry, and in some of the efficient builds they try to have a conditioned encapsulated crawl space, that is lots of work and expense, and can't really build an efficient building without it, also the thermal bridge would be a bitch to deal with in this area, that kindof steered me to a pole foundation , kindof liked the thought in the first place a neighbour gave me a book about it before I learned about earthships and such, it's how I came across the concept,
Let me reiterate.... everyone needs to watch this video.
Then go look up 'aquaponics' on youtube.
Mind = blown.
Then go look up 'aquaponics' on youtube.
Mind = blown.
Matthijs said:I love earthships and have read a lot about them. I even visited one. It is in use as a coffee house in Holland. Also watch the movie Garbage Warrior. I like the ones in the UK and Scotland. It proves the concept works everywhere.
[youtube]UNYFlcV9R1w[/youtube]
The only problem is you have to find a "Pocket of Freedom" to get one build or build your own. In Holland there is way to much red tape to get it done.That means I probably have to move to a place where an eathship is allowed to be build.
torker
100 kW
Thanks for posting that Nep ! I am glad I finally took the time to watch it. A real eye opener. I am so glad for people have the patience to go to govt. and fight for change..
Oh found a pretty good site I think. http://www.localharvest.org/search.jsp?lat=37.290085&lon=-96.91215&scale=7
Oh found a pretty good site I think. http://www.localharvest.org/search.jsp?lat=37.290085&lon=-96.91215&scale=7
2007blueprius
100 W
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2013
- Messages
- 258
thou I am having doubts A true Earthsip will do well in my climate, still Michael Reynolds is quite an inspiration, there's not many people that devoted as much in hopes of a change for the better, that movie got me thinking what am I doing with my life, "get a job get a mortgage, all I'm really doing is dieing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bek1y2uiQGA
another must watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bek1y2uiQGA
another must watch
You should look into the tiny house movement if an earthship doesn't work for you.
A small 400-600 square foot house which uses space efficiently can use dramatically less energy for winter/summer heating and cooling, saving both your wallet and the environment.
Kirsten Dirksen's channel is an excellent resource for some quick, easy to watch videos on this topic.
http://www.youtube.com/user/kirstendirksen/
[youtube]HXDu2U-CmkI[/youtube]
[youtube]wxGr9uloL9k[/youtube]
[youtube]6Y15dxUZN3s[/youtube]
A small 400-600 square foot house which uses space efficiently can use dramatically less energy for winter/summer heating and cooling, saving both your wallet and the environment.
Kirsten Dirksen's channel is an excellent resource for some quick, easy to watch videos on this topic.
http://www.youtube.com/user/kirstendirksen/
[youtube]HXDu2U-CmkI[/youtube]
[youtube]wxGr9uloL9k[/youtube]
[youtube]6Y15dxUZN3s[/youtube]
2007blueprius
100 W
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2013
- Messages
- 258
neptronix said:
I know still a must see, the quote above is from the lyrics. kind of funny
I noticed the tiny house, personally I am all for it still would build it with more thought, downsizing isn't everything, my current house is 800 sqft and 2 of the bedrooms we never use, my boy still hasn't settled into his own room and the other is where I keep my projects. on the other hand I have this thing called a family, I saw a video of a family of 4 moved into one of those, 200 sqft, that must have been way out in the boonies, even where I am they require indoor plumbing at least, and I looked into a mobile home just for gigs, no single wides, that was a bit of a bummer saw a 10x46 I was going to take it out there for the time being just to keep some stuff in it for anything.
the wife was already freaking out that we would settle into it and never do anything else :lol:
Kris B Krunch
100 mW
I just came across this post tonight, wish I would have found it earlier, some great conversation and idea's by all. I just heard about earthships for the first time this summer when two of my wife's friends asked if I wanted to come with them to seatle in september to meet Michael Reynolds for a weekend long earthship conference. It was amazing, totally blew my mind, and I loved how he went into so much detail and answered so many questions. Plus driving down with them in their new Tesla model S was amazing….but I'm getting off topic now.
Anyways, I'll keep it short, but one thing I haven't seen anyone mention for a very low cost smaller house is the earthship simple survival unit. I think the estimated cost to build one is around $7k. Michael was saying that they build more of those now then the global model.
Anyways, I'll keep it short, but one thing I haven't seen anyone mention for a very low cost smaller house is the earthship simple survival unit. I think the estimated cost to build one is around $7k. Michael was saying that they build more of those now then the global model.
Bumping this thread a bit here...
I've seen plenty of documentaries on building eco houses and three key points seem to be:
1) Insulate. Preferably with a natural material such as lamb's wool or (fire-retarded) shredded paper.
2) Avoid concrete/cement. Very high energy/CO2 levels required to make it.
3) Use locally-sourced materials. Don't transport stuff across the country or around the world.
Some specific materials of choice spring to mind:
Straw! Particularly if buying during a good season when there's an excess. Just stack sqaure bales, drive in stakes to secure, window/door frames can be cut and shaped with a chainsaw. Supposedly pest and fire resistant when in tight bales and toasty warm. Render with plastic or clad with wood for weather proofing. Carbon neutral, totally natural.
Mud! Actually "cob", has been used all over the world for centuries wasn't readily available. I was surprised to learn there are some old houses in Britain that are of cob construction. Non-load bearing, so you need a timber frame, then just hand pack the walls. Render outside and ensure good roof overhangs to weather proof, seriously, can last centuries. I'm not sure why hippies use tyres. Perhaps they're not sure, either?
Wood really isn't so bad if that's what you have locally. It's carbon-neutral, just make sure it comes from a sustained/managed source.
I've seen plenty of documentaries on building eco houses and three key points seem to be:
1) Insulate. Preferably with a natural material such as lamb's wool or (fire-retarded) shredded paper.
2) Avoid concrete/cement. Very high energy/CO2 levels required to make it.
3) Use locally-sourced materials. Don't transport stuff across the country or around the world.
Some specific materials of choice spring to mind:
Straw! Particularly if buying during a good season when there's an excess. Just stack sqaure bales, drive in stakes to secure, window/door frames can be cut and shaped with a chainsaw. Supposedly pest and fire resistant when in tight bales and toasty warm. Render with plastic or clad with wood for weather proofing. Carbon neutral, totally natural.
Mud! Actually "cob", has been used all over the world for centuries wasn't readily available. I was surprised to learn there are some old houses in Britain that are of cob construction. Non-load bearing, so you need a timber frame, then just hand pack the walls. Render outside and ensure good roof overhangs to weather proof, seriously, can last centuries. I'm not sure why hippies use tyres. Perhaps they're not sure, either?
Wood really isn't so bad if that's what you have locally. It's carbon-neutral, just make sure it comes from a sustained/managed source.