Hillhater
100 TW
Odd that nothing shows up on their sites ????
EBay seller claims to have hub motor w/Nuvinci type gearing
- Thread starter Russell
- Start date
Odd that nothing shows up on their sites ????
nah thats a load of poo there is no CVT in there :lol: cmon guys, next you will be telling me LHO shot JFK..back and to the left back and to the left!!
Just a bog standard fixed gear hubby my friends, big fat slice of hogwash I am afraid, ebay is full of this type of mis selling, the most blatant one being a guy selling petrol engine kits for bikes under the title electric bike kit? WTF? its misleading and is against ebays policy although they hardly every enforce it.
Just a bog standard fixed gear hubby my friends, big fat slice of hogwash I am afraid, ebay is full of this type of mis selling, the most blatant one being a guy selling petrol engine kits for bikes under the title electric bike kit? WTF? its misleading and is against ebays policy although they hardly every enforce it.
WhatcomRider
100 W
The motor and controller are most likely from a Busettii e-bike conversion kit: http://www.busettii.com/e-bike-conversion-kit--52-volt-27-amp-600-watt-motor-and-con5227600.html. But why is apar9518 selling them separately?
This is how Busettii describes the motor in their kit: "Busettii 52 volt 600 –1400 watt 3 phase 35 amp DC motors (runs at 600, 900, 1400 watts auto phase shifting and governed down to 27 amps for cool high efficiency performance."
The Busettii motor is discussed by AW and others in this thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30194.
This is how Busettii describes the motor in their kit: "Busettii 52 volt 600 –1400 watt 3 phase 35 amp DC motors (runs at 600, 900, 1400 watts auto phase shifting and governed down to 27 amps for cool high efficiency performance."
The Busettii motor is discussed by AW and others in this thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30194.
Thud
1 MW
HIs 4 positive feedback scores are all from sellers.....no buyers.
& oddly he bought standard hub motors & batteries? that sounds like a fishy way to look better than zero feedback.....
it is still not adding up....the nuvinci's lack of efficancy alone quashes his claims.....unless he has safe graphing it for him.
I asked for photo's & a website....Miles would already have the Pattent info if this was legit.
But if its true...its another techno win for michigan :lol: (CNC controlls & all sorts of really cool schtuffs were concieved & built in Michigan 1st)
& oddly he bought standard hub motors & batteries? that sounds like a fishy way to look better than zero feedback.....
it is still not adding up....the nuvinci's lack of efficancy alone quashes his claims.....unless he has safe graphing it for him.
I asked for photo's & a website....Miles would already have the Pattent info if this was legit.
But if its true...its another techno win for michigan :lol: (CNC controlls & all sorts of really cool schtuffs were concieved & built in Michigan 1st)
cal3thousand
10 MW
I would think that unit to be massive to house all these goody parts. Also, we would have heard of the hype before this hit eBay.
Hillhater
100 TW
icecube57 said:
Ah, !.. A brave volunteer. .. This is the best way to resolve the situation.
... Good man icecube57.
WhatcomRider
100 W
Here is a Brighton MI dealer of Velocity ebikes with the supposed new 8FUN CVP motor: http://hipowerbikes.com/
The $2,090 Raptor model appears to be based on a Huffy DS mountain bike that Walmart sells for $129.
The $2,090 Raptor model appears to be based on a Huffy DS mountain bike that Walmart sells for $129.
I would question the business sense of anyone trying to sell a new technology on ebay under a "silly" username of numbers/letters, rather than a "business-sounding" username that would get them more instant respect simply because it sounds legitimate, instead of like the zillion hokey fly-by-night operations with name like lksjdf19093.
I would also question why they would not have more details about their motor and controller/etc. on the ebay auction itself, with some of the information they indignantly spat in response to questions from members here. It would make much more business sense to have descriptive information, especially things about them designing it themselves, the years of research going into it's development, how long they've been in the motor field, major brand names that use their motors, etc. If they won't put that on their auction page, that's pretty silly to me. It puts them back in the class of suspecting them to be "lksjdf19093" types, becuase their auctions look the same.
Sure, there are legitimate businesses that don't have any marketing and/or business sense and don't bother with stuff like that...but they'd prboably be more successful if they marketed themselves better.
Nuvinci responded to my email:
So I guess not only does it definitely not have an actual NuVinci CVT, but the guy hasn't bothered to ask if he can use their name, either.
FWIW, some posts here in the thread seem to assume it does have an actual NuVinci CVT, but it doesn't actually say that on the auction from what I read--it just says it's like a NuVinci (probably trying to make the CVT comparison without getting technical?).
Anyhow, it's possible the things could be legit, but I would be put off enough by presentation, lack of data, and their attitude in responses to questions that I don't believe it is what it says it is.
I would also question why they would not have more details about their motor and controller/etc. on the ebay auction itself, with some of the information they indignantly spat in response to questions from members here. It would make much more business sense to have descriptive information, especially things about them designing it themselves, the years of research going into it's development, how long they've been in the motor field, major brand names that use their motors, etc. If they won't put that on their auction page, that's pretty silly to me. It puts them back in the class of suspecting them to be "lksjdf19093" types, becuase their auctions look the same.
Sure, there are legitimate businesses that don't have any marketing and/or business sense and don't bother with stuff like that...but they'd prboably be more successful if they marketed themselves better.
Nuvinci responded to my email:
So I guess not only does it definitely not have an actual NuVinci CVT, but the guy hasn't bothered to ask if he can use their name, either.
FWIW, some posts here in the thread seem to assume it does have an actual NuVinci CVT, but it doesn't actually say that on the auction from what I read--it just says it's like a NuVinci (probably trying to make the CVT comparison without getting technical?).
Anyhow, it's possible the things could be legit, but I would be put off enough by presentation, lack of data, and their attitude in responses to questions that I don't believe it is what it says it is.
shock
1 kW
Interesting, and only a skip, hop and a jump from my house. Seller offers 14 day return policy. I know Michigan has been ramping up on manufacturing lately and I'm sure this type of design is possible. My guess is it would be some sort of automatic toroidal cvt design. Hrm, only if I hadn't just dumped 3 grand on a boat...
SamTexas
1 MW
Not much of an explanation to me. The bold underlined portion is either apples to oranges comparison or pure BS, my take is the latter.
If he were able to sell 3,000 unit to 2 major ebike players, why would he want peddle his stuff on Ebay, one unit at a time? This product (if true) is a major advance in hub motors, wouldn't you expect to see at the very least a website showcasing its features and benefits?
Hillhater
100 TW
shock said:
Ahhh come on shock,... $400 wont even fill the tank once on that boat, ..and as you say its 14 days return, on your doorstep. !
..Go for it ! ..take one for the team... :lol:
10 kW
shock said:
Just call the guy, arrange to drive over, look at the inside, and take a test drive. If it is legit, they'd probably be very happy to get the free advertising. There is a phone number on the web site under the "Contact Us" link. Sounds improbable that it exists and no one much knows about it, but what the heck do I know?
ebent
10 kW
I'm hopeful but suspicious. They must be watching and reading this thread. If they convince us we will buy a lot of them. If this was my legitamate business I would provide pictures and undisputable evidence immediatly. Otherwise is he trying to scam the brain trust of ES? Bold and brash!
If this proves real I'll buy one. If not I still feel this is possible and the day will come. I'm watching this thread for evidence.
I appreciate all the intelligent comments.
If this proves real I'll buy one. If not I still feel this is possible and the day will come. I'm watching this thread for evidence.
I appreciate all the intelligent comments.
Ypedal
100 TW
1000w
1 kW
1+
Total bullshit.
Lets take him down team! He's messin with the wrong crew now.
Total bullshit.
Lets take him down team! He's messin with the wrong crew now.
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
The seller claims to have sold 3000 motors to Velocity ebikes and Motobecane ebikes. Now, I'm guessing that the ebike market in North America isn't that big, yet, so sales of this magnitude should show up on the web somewhere, with those company names advertising ebikes with this motor.
I've just done a bit of searching around, and can't seem to find anything relevant. There's a Velocity ebike with an 8FUN motor being sold by Elite ebikes in BC, Canada, but their site makes no mention of a variable ratio drive in the motor. I'm struggling to find a mention of a Motobecane ebike with this motor, or any other company called Velocity.
Sounds to me like the ad's just BS, designed to fleece the gullible into paying many times the price for a normal hub motor.
I've just done a bit of searching around, and can't seem to find anything relevant. There's a Velocity ebike with an 8FUN motor being sold by Elite ebikes in BC, Canada, but their site makes no mention of a variable ratio drive in the motor. I'm struggling to find a mention of a Motobecane ebike with this motor, or any other company called Velocity.
Sounds to me like the ad's just BS, designed to fleece the gullible into paying many times the price for a normal hub motor.
kfong
100 kW
I tried contacting the guy through eBay but never got a response back. Even sent him this link. If there is a phone number, I don't see it. I'm willing to head out to his place if the item is real, but I really doubt it.
WhatcomRider
100 W
The following domain names are registered by Alan Patee of Busettii Eco Bicycle Technology Company:
biyadii.com
busettii.com
busettiiebike.com
chinabusinessresearch.com
hipowerbikes.com
velocityebikes.com
Busettii has gotten far too many bad reviews for me to have any confidence in their products. You can read all their marketing hype here: http://www.busettii.com/info.html.
All references to NuVinci have now been removed from the hipowerbikes.com website since I posted the link yesterday, and the motor is now described as a VP drive (Variable Planetary or Velocity Planetary).
biyadii.com
busettii.com
busettiiebike.com
chinabusinessresearch.com
hipowerbikes.com
velocityebikes.com
Busettii has gotten far too many bad reviews for me to have any confidence in their products. You can read all their marketing hype here: http://www.busettii.com/info.html.
All references to NuVinci have now been removed from the hipowerbikes.com website since I posted the link yesterday, and the motor is now described as a VP drive (Variable Planetary or Velocity Planetary).
cal3thousand
10 MW
WhatcomRider said:
Nice sleuthing
Hillhater
100 TW
A snip from the Busettii site.... 
chilledoutuk
100 W
yeah this is complete snake oil.
Why in the world would a manufacturer of a state of the art bike motor use a bafang motor case which is one of the cheapest motors out there.
He also bought some stuff from sunthing28 who sells cheap ebike stuff on ebay.
Why in the world would a manufacturer of a state of the art bike motor use a bafang motor case which is one of the cheapest motors out there.
He also bought some stuff from sunthing28 who sells cheap ebike stuff on ebay.
cal3thousand
10 MW
chilledoutuk said:
Now how can we as the premier e-bike community make sure this guy doesn't ruin the electric bike industry perception to the masses?
liveforphysics
100 TW
It's possible he bought various other cheap hubmotors to do comparison testing. If you were really making innovative new hubmotors, it's always a good idea to know where your competitors performance levels are.
However... I'm 99.9% sure this guy is just a scammer trying to lure suckers. However... that 0.1% chance that it really has a CVT is tempting to at least buy one to confirm it's a scam, then get your money back for "item not as described".
I think that it's roughly impossible to to make a CVT hubmotor have better efficiency than a fixed gearing or direct drive hubmotor (because CVT's are a ~10-20% efficiency hit by themselves), but I do think it would enable a small light motor package to deliver solid starting torque and still have a decent cruising speed, and I think that could be worth the efficiency hit of having a CVT inside.
However... I'm 99.9% sure this guy is just a scammer trying to lure suckers. However... that 0.1% chance that it really has a CVT is tempting to at least buy one to confirm it's a scam, then get your money back for "item not as described".
I think that it's roughly impossible to to make a CVT hubmotor have better efficiency than a fixed gearing or direct drive hubmotor (because CVT's are a ~10-20% efficiency hit by themselves), but I do think it would enable a small light motor package to deliver solid starting torque and still have a decent cruising speed, and I think that could be worth the efficiency hit of having a CVT inside.
dogman dan
1 PW
Oh yeah, like I said if it's legit I want to try one. Likely perfect for my slow and careful style of dirt riding.
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
Let's look at their advertised claims in a bit more detail to see if we can set off any BS detectors. From their website, as quoted above by Hillhater:
Using the quoted figures for output torque and rpm to derive power - "Max. output is 1390 watts at 550 RPM & 27 amps constant with a torque reading of 59 ft.lbs" :
Torque (in N-m) = Torque (in lbs ft) x 1.355818 = 59 x 1.355818 = 79.99 N-m
Angular velocity = rpm / 9.5488 = 550 rpm / 9.5488 = 57.5988 rads/S
Power = torque * angular velocity = 79.99 * 57.5988 = 4607 W of mechanical output power from the motor
Using the quoted figures 52 V and 27 A, the input power is:
52 V * 27 A = 1404 W of input power
For an input power of 1404 W and an efficiency of 93%, as claimed, the output power would be 1305.72 W. At this output power and at the claimed rpm of 550 the output torque would be:
Torque = power / angular velocity = 1305.72 / 57.5988 = 22.67 N-m or 16.72 lbs ft.
Either they've invented an "over unity" device or it's just plain BS.
Using the quoted figures for output torque and rpm to derive power - "Max. output is 1390 watts at 550 RPM & 27 amps constant with a torque reading of 59 ft.lbs" :
Torque (in N-m) = Torque (in lbs ft) x 1.355818 = 59 x 1.355818 = 79.99 N-m
Angular velocity = rpm / 9.5488 = 550 rpm / 9.5488 = 57.5988 rads/S
Power = torque * angular velocity = 79.99 * 57.5988 = 4607 W of mechanical output power from the motor
Using the quoted figures 52 V and 27 A, the input power is:
52 V * 27 A = 1404 W of input power
For an input power of 1404 W and an efficiency of 93%, as claimed, the output power would be 1305.72 W. At this output power and at the claimed rpm of 550 the output torque would be:
Torque = power / angular velocity = 1305.72 / 57.5988 = 22.67 N-m or 16.72 lbs ft.
Either they've invented an "over unity" device or it's just plain BS.