Etoboss
10 mW
Ye mate complete kit from moddsebike they sell 100s. And spoke to speedup another local place and there kits exact same. Will have to buy a new battery and hope for the best can’t get any other batteries that are higher amp than 20
Ebike faulty controller? Wheel jerking
- Thread starter Etoboss
- Start date
AGS
1 kW
There are plenty of 40 amp batteries for sale. Are you getting confused between amps (A) and amp hours (AH)
Amps (A) is the maximum current that the battery can deliver.
Amp hour (AH) is the maximum current that the battery can deliver for 1 hour
So a 40A 20AH battery can deliver 40 Amps for 30 minutes.
Amps (A) is the maximum current that the battery can deliver.
Amp hour (AH) is the maximum current that the battery can deliver for 1 hour
So a 40A 20AH battery can deliver 40 Amps for 30 minutes.
Etoboss
10 mW
AGS
1 kW
That battery matches your controller. Although it is only just good enough and doesn’t leave any margin.
I think you are just riding a bit too hard and getting your motor hot, which blew your hall sensors after you put your bike away with a hot motor.
When you stop riding with a hot motor the heat continues to build up in the motor and it can overheat with no power, so the next time you go to use it the motor doesn’t work because the hall sensors have failed after switching it all off. It’s called ”heat soak”.
It’s best to ride slower on the way home to cool the motor down before putting the bike away.
Also keep an eye on your battery voltage on your display and if it starts sagging then ease off a bit to let it recover.
You could consider using ferrofluid and hub sinks to help keep the temperature down. The motor needs to be opened up anyway to replace the hall sensors, so that would be a good time to put some statorade in. But buy the right stuff from a reputable supplier. Most of the ferrofluid for sale on eBay in the UK is no good because the flash point is too low. Don’t use ferrofluid with a 70C flashpoint.
I think you are just riding a bit too hard and getting your motor hot, which blew your hall sensors after you put your bike away with a hot motor.
When you stop riding with a hot motor the heat continues to build up in the motor and it can overheat with no power, so the next time you go to use it the motor doesn’t work because the hall sensors have failed after switching it all off. It’s called ”heat soak”.
It’s best to ride slower on the way home to cool the motor down before putting the bike away.
Also keep an eye on your battery voltage on your display and if it starts sagging then ease off a bit to let it recover.
You could consider using ferrofluid and hub sinks to help keep the temperature down. The motor needs to be opened up anyway to replace the hall sensors, so that would be a good time to put some statorade in. But buy the right stuff from a reputable supplier. Most of the ferrofluid for sale on eBay in the UK is no good because the flash point is too low. Don’t use ferrofluid with a 70C flashpoint.
Last edited:
Etoboss
10 mW
Ok thanks for info mate will have a look now for fluid… what annoys him mostly is they all go out together on there bikes and it’s only his that does it and his is way newer so he gets left behind a lot of the time lol Gona tell him to just take it easy from now on that’s once I fix his hub
AGS
1 kW
Their bikes will break as well eventually. They are kids and want to ride flat out all of the time. These e-bike kits are a bit too fragile to take the kind of sustained abuse they are giving them.
Etoboss
10 mW
lol true. Only difference to his and theirs is his has the Samsung battery there’s cheap Chinese ones and they don’t get the problem. Gona swap battery’s and see if happens
AGS
1 kW
I just had another thought about your problem. The battery may not be the cause at all.
It is possible that the hall sensors may have been failing for some time. So as they get hot they will stop working until they cool sufficiently then you carry on riding for a while until they overheat again and the motor stops.
Eventually, one or more of them failed completely so the motor didn’t spin at all after cooling down.
Its worth trying to run the bike sensorless using your current battery to see if the cutting out problem either reoccurs or disappears.
If it runs ok for prolonged periods of use then you can rule out the battery as the problem.
The hall sensors fitted to these motors by the factory won’t be of the highest quality and may not stand up to high temperatures. Some are only rated at 70C.
Good quality replacement hall sensors will be good for 150C and should last a long time. If your motor gets to 150C then other things start to break down, like the insulation on the wiring burns out and the magnets permanently demagnetise.
It is possible that the hall sensors may have been failing for some time. So as they get hot they will stop working until they cool sufficiently then you carry on riding for a while until they overheat again and the motor stops.
Eventually, one or more of them failed completely so the motor didn’t spin at all after cooling down.
Its worth trying to run the bike sensorless using your current battery to see if the cutting out problem either reoccurs or disappears.
If it runs ok for prolonged periods of use then you can rule out the battery as the problem.
The hall sensors fitted to these motors by the factory won’t be of the highest quality and may not stand up to high temperatures. Some are only rated at 70C.
Good quality replacement hall sensors will be good for 150C and should last a long time. If your motor gets to 150C then other things start to break down, like the insulation on the wiring burns out and the magnets permanently demagnetise.
Etoboss
10 mW
Right mate. Just went in garage to tackle the hub. But 1st I tried this new controller just incase before sending it back. And guess what it bloody works fine! lol the whole time was the controller. Saves me a lot of messing with that hub. He going out on it soon so will see if the battery starts saggin. Battery been on charge all night and day I just did a test run the 1st run it dropped to 60% when riding full! Then went straight back to 100% and didn’t do it again may of been coz was cold. But will see….. but If still the same iam going to buy 1 of them upp batteries I can get a 52v 28amp lg upp been told by many that them batteries even though there now banned are the best.
Yes, it's most likely a motor hall problem or a bad connection in the hall plug.
Etoboss
10 mW
Sorted now mate it was the controller in the end. Replaced and works fine. Just trying to figure out now why the sagging happens that I think is the battery even though it’s new.
Etoboss
10 mW
Guys it’s blown again!! After 20 odd miles the new controller blown sound exact same thing. Is it the battery that blows the controller or the wheel? Something is blowing them but not a clue what
AGS
1 kW
What error message appears on the display? And does the new controller run the motor in sensorless mode without errors?
I remember the old controller worked fine in sensorless mode which indicates there is nothing wrong with the old controller.
The discussion we were having previously was about hall sensors and they can be easily tested without opening the motor using a multimeter.
I remember the old controller worked fine in sensorless mode which indicates there is nothing wrong with the old controller.
The discussion we were having previously was about hall sensors and they can be easily tested without opening the motor using a multimeter.
Etoboss
10 mW
No error message on display mate.
No didn’t end up trying it in sensorless mode in the end as soon as plugged new controller in it was fine.
I will check the hall sensors today.
I noticed this when I unplugged the controller looks like it’s burnt abit. I just don’t understand why the controllers keep burning out. It’s a 45a and not a cheap 1. His mates bikes are cheaper controllers and never had problems
Attachments
Etoboss
10 mW
i just quickly cut them connectors off and directly wired them up, didn’t work. But could have been why the controller blew. 
Then again when I say blew it works backwards smoothly when unplugging the hall sensor connector. So it’s not fully blown I guess
Then again when I say blew it works backwards smoothly when unplugging the hall sensor connector. So it’s not fully blown I guessEtoboss
10 mW
Just another quick note, this time when it happened all he did was went down to the shops on the bike. Parked it up. Came out as he got on the bike he went to throttle away and it chucked him backwards! Kinda dangerously. He got off the bike lifted rear end up put some throttle on and the wheel was spinning back then it just stopped and started that jerking forward
AGS
1 kW
If you do have a hall sensor problem then because you are using a dual mode controller, it could be getting confused with the hall sensor plug connected, which could be why the motor went into reverse.
If you disconnect the hall plug and the motor rotates in the right direction then it does point towards a problem either with the hall sensors or the wiring to them.
If both controllers run the motor in sensorless mode then they are likely to be ok. It is not usual for the hall input circuits to blow on the controller unless it’s been wired incorrectly.
The usual failure of a controller is the Mosfets get blown short circuit which results in the controller not spinning the motor at all.
Don’t rule out a hall sensor connection problem, your fault appears to be intermittent.
If you disconnect the hall plug and the motor rotates in the right direction then it does point towards a problem either with the hall sensors or the wiring to them.
If both controllers run the motor in sensorless mode then they are likely to be ok. It is not usual for the hall input circuits to blow on the controller unless it’s been wired incorrectly.
The usual failure of a controller is the Mosfets get blown short circuit which results in the controller not spinning the motor at all.
Don’t rule out a hall sensor connection problem, your fault appears to be intermittent.
Last edited:
Etoboss
10 mW
AGS
1 kW
If you need to run the controller sensorless there are ways to make the motor run forwards, but do the hall sensor test first and check the wiring. It could simply be a bad hall sensor connection, so make sure the pins aren’t bent or misaligned in the hall plug. Also they have a tendency to back out of the plug/socket so check they are all inserted properly on both the plug and socket.
If you want to run the motor fowards in sensorless mode and you don’t have a reverse wire just swap two of the phase wires. But you will have to swap them back again if you want to run it sensored.
I have this multimeter. I bought it about 20 years ago for a couple of quid.
www.halfords.com
If you want to run the motor fowards in sensorless mode and you don’t have a reverse wire just swap two of the phase wires. But you will have to swap them back again if you want to run it sensored.
I have this multimeter. I bought it about 20 years ago for a couple of quid.
Rolson Digital Multimeter | Halfords UK
Shop the latest The Rolson Digital Multimeter is perfect for all your wattage and voltage needs. at Halfords UK
www.halfords.com
Last edited:
Etoboss
10 mW
Just been and got that tester mate. Green blue yellow all have around 4.6-5v and when turn wheel backwards voltage goes up and down so assume nothing wrong with hall?
Etoboss
10 mW
After checkin halls there defo all good. I they tried changing wires after wires hall and phase was a nightmare some work ok until u get on it and just not much power as before. Found this 1 and only combo that makes it feel spot on! He hasn’t been out on it yet but hopefully it’s all good. Will soon no.
Still the thing where how the hell can the controller work fine from new then have to do this wire changing thing it’s crazy. And on both controllers! Head is burnt
Still the thing where how the hell can the controller work fine from new then have to do this wire changing thing it’s crazy. And on both controllers! Head is burnt
AGS
1 kW
What you are describing looks like an intermittent fault, possibly due to bad hall contacts.
The last description of the problem looked like he went to the shops and the hall sensors were fine. Then when he went to come back home the halls didn’t work and the controller ran the motor backwards in sensorless mode.
Here is a table of how to swap the phase and hall wiring and record the results. There are 36 combinations and most of them won’t work.
Some will work but the motor will run rough and draw excessive current. One will be correct and the motor will run smoothly and at low watts with the wheel unloaded.
The last description of the problem looked like he went to the shops and the hall sensors were fine. Then when he went to come back home the halls didn’t work and the controller ran the motor backwards in sensorless mode.
Here is a table of how to swap the phase and hall wiring and record the results. There are 36 combinations and most of them won’t work.
Some will work but the motor will run rough and draw excessive current. One will be correct and the motor will run smoothly and at low watts with the wheel unloaded.
Etoboss
10 mW
Thanks mate. Ye I changed the wires on both over and over and found the perfect 1 it runs 100% he just been on a blast now to test and it’s all good. May need to change that block connector incase it melts but other than that so far so good! That pic I attached is what worked no of the others I tried did
Etoboss
10 mW
U never guess what mate it’s happened again! What the hell. Now even more confusing part. I just taken the controller off as Gona bin it but just thought will put it back on the original way so all wires coded the same and it’s bloody working perfectly.
man what’s going on lol. I think it has to be summit to do with the dual mode bit of the controller as spoke to so many people with same kit but not that controller and none ever have this problem. Going to order another 45amp controller but not a dual mode!
Etoboss
10 mW
I think the only way ruling out the rear wheel is by making it run in sensorless mode? So I just unplug the hall sensor leave it unplugged then switch phase wires until it runs forward?
Similar threads
- Question
