Ebikekit Rear Hub ( Nine Continent type)

[bikeelectric]

I received the Ebikekit rear hub kit today. I thought I would post some photos. I know that a few others also got this kit so thought I would make a place to post their reviews.
I have heard that this controller will handle 48 Volts ? It does say 36 . Anyone try it at 48 ?
[/attachment]

 

[wasp]

that would be sweet...
i ordered one as well
looking at the simulater on ebike.ca 48v 30 amps
the specs look almost identical to the x5 at the same specs
looking forward to the pics

 

[E-BikeKit.com]

Deleted. Thank you to all at ES.

 

[Vim]

It's hard for me to read in that pic, but it looks like that little white & red sticker says 9x7. If it's a 9x7 (2806) it's the fast version. The 7x9 (2807) is the slower one. I've got a 9x7 (2806) on my bike and it does 27-28 mph at 48v.

 

[Doctorbass]

hey Vin, it's the 9 x 7 rater than the 7 x 9.. i'm pretty sure :wink: fast... fast... yeah!!!

see the zooming of that pic i did:

 

[Doctorbass]

Following what GUI said in the other nine continent post, it would be the fastest!!

there are differents windings on 9C ,6*10,7*9,8*8,9*7 (9C are very popular in france ..)
for example: a 7*9 9C FH205 , it's 7 wires on 9 turns, 48v load speed 380 rpm
a 7*9 9C fh154 , it's 7 wires on 9 turns , 48v load speed 420 rpm better speed but lower torque
a 9*7 9C rh205 , 48v load speed 485 trs/min

According to the ebikes.ca simulator, it's the kv speed vs volt (on load) equivalent of a crystalyte 5303.


Doc

 

[Vim]

Yep, it's the fast one

 

[Russell]

I also received my (700C) 9C kit from E-bikekit today

Here's a picture showing the offset problem. The gap on the left is 20mm more than the gap on the right so the rim is offset 10mm to the right (with the bike upside down).

View attachment 3

I completely re-laced the wheel, several times in fact, before settling on an alternating spoke pattern with more twist than I'd like but I laced it this way hoping for additional strength especially now that the wheel is dished. I tried a variation without the sharp crossing but it seems to lack stability and didn't true-up as well as the twisted spokes.


View attachment 1


Here it is in the final configuration after preliminary truing;







One thing I can say is the spokes and nipples appear to be good quality. I rebuilt the wheel, trued it, took it apart, rebuilt it again...and again...and again and the spokes and nipples stood up to it. The spokes on this 700C rim are 188mm and were long enough to do the job. I hope E-bikekit gets some replacements in stock because if I break one I'm SOL.

To get the wheel perfectly centered I would have had to reduce the non-drive side tension too much so I settled for about 3mm off-center. The wheel has reasonable lateral stiffness but only time will tell if it holds up. I tell ya the Bafang front wheel I built up for my Raleigh was sooooo much easier

Now I need a freewheel for the thing. the bike curently has 8 speed shifters so a 7 speed freewheel would work fine but it looks a bit tight for 7 cogs. I measure maybe 35mm maximum space on the drive side meaning a 6 speed might fit as is but a 7 speed probably would need a spacer which then would offset the wheel a bit in the wrong direction Maybe I'll just get a 5 speed and convert my double crankset w/bashguard back to triple rings :?



-R

 

[stevero2001]

I got the 2806 hub, and it has a similar label, but mine is showing 10x6, which I think is even faster. I'm doing 25+ at 38v with mine in 26 inch, so I think it's faster than 9x7. I read another thread that mentioned there is also 6x10 and 8x8 used in Europe, so it appears that there are other variations available.

hey Vin, it's the 9 x 7 rater than the 7 x 9.. i'm pretty sure :wink: fast... fast... yeah!!!

see the zooming of that pic i did:

 

[Drunkskunk]

Cool. I got my kit yesterday as well. Good to see someone doing a write up on this. My build thread for it will be slow.


I had no idea the 9X7 ment the 2806! I thought it was a clever Abriviation on Nine Continents (as there are only 7).
Flat awesome. this thing will be faster than I though.

 

[Doctorbass]

That's great for you guys! :wink:

I still wait for mine... to Canada.. :|

So i can see that the motor speed per volt are sent randomly to buyers???

Doc

 

[Russell]

Dang there's a problem with my wheel build; yes the one I spend hours and hours on last night A close inspection in the light of day revealed a problem which would surely cause spoke failure rather quickly. The spoke heads do not sit flush and tight in the motor flange holes. I can actually press on the spokes where they cross and LIFT the spoke heads in the flange hole. I'm gonna have to redo the entire build with spoke WASHERS



Frankly though I'm not sure the spokes and especially the nipples can take yet another disassembly, rebuild and truing :|


-R

 

[E-BikeKit.com]

We'll have extra spokes here soon in case any break.

 

[stevero2001]

I'm pretty sure the 2806 from ebikes.ca is a 10x6. That is 6 turns of 10 wires. It looks to me like whatever hub they do tries to get roughly 60 when you multiply ie 7x9=63 9x7=63 10x6=60 8x8=64. This gives a similar amount of copper for different speeds. Its the second number that determines speed.

My guess is ebikes 2807 is a 9x7. These are all guesses, so don't shoot me if I'm wrong.

Cool. I got my kit yesterday as well. Good to see someone doing a write up on this. My build thread for it will be slow.


I had no idea the 9X7 ment the 2806! I thought it was a clever Abriviation on Nine Continents (as there are only 7).
Flat awesome. this thing will be faster than I though.

 

[Russell]

I took another stab at lacing the motor. I thought a good twist would make for a stronger wheel but it caused another problem with the spoke heads not seating properly. This time I went back to something simpler. On the drive side I have all of the spoke heads facing in with the spokes lightly touching at the cross. On the non-drive side the spokes are staggered but don't touch at the cross. It dished and trued up easy enough and the spoke heads are seated better than my previous build. It seems stable laterally when I leaned on the rim to stress relieve so I guess I'll stick with this set-up because frankly I've had enough of messin' with it :|



-R

 

[Russell]

So does anyone know if a 6 speed freewheel will work on these motors WITHOUT shims or do I need to get a 5 speed?



BTW Ampedbikes will be offering a DISC brake kit for these rear motors as soon as they are done with their evaluation test.


-R

 

[Somervillein]

Hi there - new to this forum. Been reading and educating myself for a couple of weeks now, saw the deal on the ebikekit, and pulled the trigger. I received it on Tuesday. I'll be putting it on an 80s steel Trek roadbike. I do not have any clearance - the rim is touching the frame, so I will definitely have to do some dishing.

Russell - Thanks for sharing your experiences with the wheel rebuild. I will be working on mind this weekend.

Here's a lame question: What size spoke wrench do you need? I only have the black Park size 0, which is too small.

thx

 

[Vim]

I'm pretty sure the 2806 from ebikes.ca is a 10x6. That is 6 turns of 10 wires. It looks to me like whatever hub they do tries to get roughly 60 when you multiply ie 7x9=63 9x7=63 10x6=60 8x8=64. This gives a similar amount of copper for different speeds. Its the second number that determines speed.

My guess is ebikes 2807 is a 9x7. These are all guesses, so don't shoot me if I'm wrong.

Cool. I got my kit yesterday as well. Good to see someone doing a write up on this. My build thread for it will be slow.


I had no idea the 9X7 ment the 2806! I thought it was a clever Abriviation on Nine Continents (as there are only 7).
Flat awesome. this thing will be faster than I though.

Stevero, where did you get your 10x6? Actually, I don't think anyone has really figured out how the 2806 - 2807 numbers that ebikes.ca uses relates to the 9x7 - 7x9 - 8x8 - 10x6 numbers. I do know for sure the early slower motor that AmpedBikes used to carry was the 7x9, then the faster 9x7 first came out for rear wheels only, and it was painted black. Now the 9x7 is all they sell but the front motors are unpainted.
I do know that the '28' in 2806 - 2807 means 28mm wide magnets.

Did you get your 10x6 from ebikes.ca as a 2806? What is the torque like, and have you tried it at 48v?

 

[Doctorbass]

I do know that the '28' in 2806 - 2807 means 28mm wide magnets.

I guess.. cause the crystalyte 5305 have 53mm magnet...

Doc

 

[voicecoils]

I took another stab at lacing the motor. I thought a good twist would make for a stronger wheel but it caused another problem with the spoke heads not seating properly.

It may apply here, I'm not sure. Some hub motors have quite large diameter holes on the hub spoke flanges. This is not ideal of course and does mean that the spoke heads are even less likely to sit flush.

On the front hub 9 Continents I've just received (FH154, 7x9 wound) the spoke heads are ALL on the inside of the spoke flange on both flanges and for both leading and trailing spokes.

 

[Russell]

I took another stab at lacing the motor. I thought a good twist would make for a stronger wheel but it caused another problem with the spoke heads not seating properly.

It may apply here, I'm not sure. Some hub motors have quite large diameter holes on the hub spoke flanges. This is not ideal of course and does mean that the spoke heads are even less likely to sit flush.

On the front hub 9 Continents I've just received (FH154, 7x9 wound) the spoke heads are ALL on the inside of the spoke flange on both flanges and for both leading and trailing spokes.

Yeah that's how my motor came laced too and when the rim was symmetrical to the motor that's probably OK but that also offsets the rim. The root of the problem is the design of the motor itself, it wasn't properly engineered for a rear wheel application. If you take a look at the engineering drawings for a Crystalyte rear motor http://www.ebikes.ca/store/diagrams/M400R.pdf and compare it to the front motor http://www.ebikes.ca/store/diagrams/M400F.pdf you'll notice differences in the motor casing which makes the rear motor lace up and center properly. The 9C motor on the on the other hand is basically the same as the front motor just with thread-on's for freewheels and longer axles. Anyway it's the reason ebikes.ca and now E-bikekit don't sell'em. Ampedbikes has been selling the rear motor for some time and there are lots of folks who have had problems with them.

I knew all of this beforehand but couldn't resist the offer so I picked one up just the same, besides I needed something to work on. The big problem with the 9C comes when you try to dish it to center it in the rear drop-outs. Frankly I wonder why they even sell the thing this way since you can see from my first photo just how far off-center the stock wheel is. As the rim is moved over the spokes on the drive side become nearly vertical and the whole wheel loses integrity. I thought I could compensate and strengthen the dished wheel with a good twist in the spokes but because it's a 1X spoke pattern and the flanges are so narrow it doesn't work out well. My final build is a compromise but it's the best solution I could come up with. One of the reasons I chose a Bafang for my first ebike was among other things the ease of building a nice strong wheel due to the motor's small size. Oh well if it doesn't work out well enough I'll chalk it up to "entertainment". I'm already thinkin' of using the controller on my Bafang since it would allow me to use 48V with that motor

-R

 

[voicecoils]

The root of the problem is the design of the motor itself, it wasn't properly engineered for a rear wheel application.

The hubmotors I've seen so far are not a good match for a perfectionist or cycling enthusiast. Big problems if you are both :lol:

Just getting 135mm spacing for rear hubmotors has been a hassle for Western hubmotor re-sellers. Non-sensical flange positioning, hub width, screw on cassettes, lack of IS bolt on disk mounts, no integrated torque arms etc are just some of the issues that result in compromises being necessary to get them into many bikes. If it were truly easy to get the manufacturers to build a robust 'actually designed for bicycles' hubmotors it would probably have already been done. Markcycle on E-S is a good example, working with Crystalyte to get a design for light motorbikes, he's getting his design specs followed but it's a process of baby steps.

Mark_A_W on E-S has a rear bafang that would need negetive dishing on the drive side to get the wheel centered in the chainstays Not a workable solution obviously.

I'd suggest you leave your wheel as-is and get some distance on it. Then check spoke tension and look at the heads and hub flange for signs of stress or fractures. If you get a bit of distance on it with no major dramas and can then strengthen it up a bit more on a truing stand after it has settled in you should be good to go for the long haul.

Good luck!

 

[Russell]

Here's a lame question: What size spoke wrench do you need? I only have the black Park size 0, which is too small.

thx

I have black, green and red and none of course fit. I was going to buy a BLUE which I believe is for 12G but the nipples on this wheel are 13G so I used one of those round universal spoke wrenches.


-R

 

[stevero2001]

I bought it from ebikes.ca. You have to buy the 20 inch 2806 and either have Justin change the rim to 26 inch (an extra $70) or do it yourself. This is a front hub. I only ran it with a 36V Ping battery and 20Amp controller. I can only compare it to a BD36 brushed hub, but it feels similar to BD36 at half the current. I expect it to have much better torque with more current. If you trust the simulator at ebikes.ca, it has better torque than the 2807 hub, with higher top speed. I would expect it to run around 30MPH at 48v for flat ground and no wind, based on the simulator.

As far as the 10x6 on 2806, that's what the sticker on the my hub says. It looks just like the sticker in the first picture of this thread, same handwriting, so I'm sure it was made in the same factory.

Stevero, where did you get your 10x6? Actually, I don't think anyone has really figured out how the 2806 - 2807 numbers that ebikes.ca uses relates to the 9x7 - 7x9 - 8x8 - 10x6 numbers. I do know for sure the early slower motor that AmpedBikes used to carry was the 7x9, then the faster 9x7 first came out for rear wheels only, and it was painted black. Now the 9x7 is all they sell but the front motors are unpainted.
I do know that the '28' in 2806 - 2807 means 28mm wide magnets.

Did you get your 10x6 from ebikes.ca as a 2806? What is the torque like, and have you tried it at 48v?

 

[E-BikeKit.com]

Deleted. Thank you to all at ES.