Electra Spitfire

[RatoN]

Hello folks,

Been riding this electric vehicle for a couple of months now, and that thing is just too sweet to describe. People stopping me in the middle of the street asking questions, the sense of total freedom, and above all, knowing that you are doing the right thing. What a rush.

My Electra Spitfire




See more at Electra Choppers

Here are my specs btw...

Frame: Double suspension freeride Oryx Spitfire.
Hub motor: 5304 F 26" at the back.
Control box: 36V 35A.
Throttle: Crystalyte half twist.
Battery pack. 1, NiCad 48-8 Rect.
Battery Charger: 48V-2A NiMH.
Top speed: 45kmh or 28mph.
Range: 20 km or 12 mi.
Weight: approx 80 lbs.
Cost: about 3000$cdn.
Parts Dealer: Justin at Ebikes.ca, in Vancouver.

Next improvements will be to replace the Nickel Cadium (NiCad) batt pack with Lithium-ion (Li-ion) 72volts (2 x 36v) or Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) pack and solar cells on top of the saddle bags, yep.

The Future is Now.
We Will Win 8)

 

[Lessss]

Hold off on replacing your nicads. Nicads are probably better than Lithion for COLD wether performance. As a Canadian you'll need that.

 

[RatoN]

Hey Lessss,

I don't ride this bike in winter or when the temps get too cold. Plus, i really want the shave off some weight when changing my 48v pack to 72v. NiCad are just too heavy, not by much compared to NiMH, but still.

Apreciate your advice 8)

 

[safe]

What are the laws for electric bikes in Canada?

If you attract too much attention and then a policeman discovers that the 72 Volt setup is illegal you might be forced to go back to the existing setup. Oh well, no big deal I guess... The manufacturer can never sell anything that goes faster than a certain speed, but I guess if you do your own modifications you should be fine.

One day you will be stopped... so have your "story" straight in advance if he asks about how you are going so darn fast!

 

[knightmb]

What are the laws for electric bikes in Canada?

If you attract too much attention and then a policeman discovers that the 72 Volt setup is illegal you might be forced to go back to the existing setup. Oh well, no big deal I guess... The manufacturer can never sell anything that goes faster than a certain speed, but I guess if you do your own modifications you should be fine.

One day you will be stopped... so have your "story" straight in advance if he asks about how you are going so darn fast!

I don't think that it's so much "illegal" as it is "required license" that can get you in trouble. Here in the US, if your state has no law, the federal law says your bike can't use more than 750 watts and can not go faster than 20 mph on level ground. Otherwise, you need a license and the bike gets classified as a "vehicle" that must have a license plate, brake lights, etc. You could get a ticket then for not having a license plate or working brake lights, but you certainly won't end up in prison or face $100,000 fines or anything.

 

[Lowell]

What are the laws for electric bikes in Canada?

If you attract too much attention and then a policeman discovers that the 72 Volt setup is illegal you might be forced to go back to the existing setup. Oh well, no big deal I guess... The manufacturer can never sell anything that goes faster than a certain speed, but I guess if you do your own modifications you should be fine.

One day you will be stopped... so have your "story" straight in advance if he asks about how you are going so darn fast!

Unless the cop has a multi meter in his pocket, it's unlikely he'll know it's 72v. (which is not illegal in itself, as long as it's not over 500w) A switch to flip between 2s1p and 1s2p might be handy

 

[RatoN]

Yeah, most cities if not all, are e-vehicle friendly. They know that they have a major-ass problem with cars, so they let you slide. The cops here so far have two basic reactions.

1. They totally ignore it, since e-bikes don't really fit anywhere in any categories.

2. They are curious about it, just like most ppl.

Not too sure about what the law says here. Regardless, i have no intentions of respecting the laws about e-bikes. Their decisions and non-decisions is what got us into this mess to begin with. That being said, i try to be respectful and responsible. 72v will only allow me to do what i want, as oppose to what i can. I have no intensions of racing against cars

... well, most of the time anyway


EDIT:

What are the laws for electric bikes in Canada?

...

One day you will be stopped... so have your "story" straight in advance if he asks about how you are going so darn fast!

Lmao, yes I have a story…

Well, gee, I have these two 36v battery packs, and the wiring got mixed up somehow resulting in 72 volts output… I WAS SOOOOO SCARED!


:wink:

 

[Lowell]

I thought BC was bad, but I'm sure glad I don't live in Quebec:

http://www.valuride.com/quebec_regulations.htm

"3) the bicycle bears the manufacturer's label required by the regulations made pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Statutes of Canada, 1993, chapter 16) in the case of a bicycle sold to its first user as a power-assisted bicycle, or the bicycle motor bears the label required under section 274.2 in the case of a bicycle converted into a power-assisted bicycle;"

Idiots

 

[Lowell]

And for any BC'ers:

http://www.valuride.com/britcol_regs.htm

3 (1) A motor assisted cycle must be equipped with a mechanism, separate from the accelerator controller, that

(b) prevents the motor from turning on or engaging before the motor assisted cycle attains a speed of 3 km/hr.

** start immediate controllers are actually illegal here **

4 A motor assisted cycle must not be equipped with a generator, alternator or similar device powered by a combustion engine.

** no hybrid e-bikes allowed **

(8) A cycle operated on a highway must be equipped with a brake that will enable the person operating the cycle to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level and clean pavement.

** first sensible thing I've read on the whole page **

 

[RatoN]

Thank for the info Lowell,

1/3 of the Qc population works in public functions, and that explains why we are the most taxed in America, some say in the world (considering what services you get in return), and such iffy regulations does not surprise me at all. They don't even understand that the batteries make the engine power. So what does the ''motor label'' will tell the cops?? Nothing at all.

To tell you the truth, since last July, I tried to get pulled over by the cops SAFELY on OCCASIONS, (running red lights, sidewalks, one ways, pulling beside them and taking off on reds), just to see what they know about e-bikes and find out about the laws first hand. Folks at my local Pub would ask me ''so, did you get pulled over tonight lol? No ''

They just don't want to deal with it. They always gave me the impressions of running away from it. Plus, I guess they know who the good guys are in all of this.

Now, I wouldn’t try them with a motorcycle frame based prototype though.

 

[safe]

There is an argument for simply doing whatever you please since you are doing it for "personal consumption". It's a whole different matter when you are a "dealer" and trying to sell the stuff.

That was the first question the police officer said to me:

"Did you buy it or is it home grown?"

Oh, by the way we are talking about "electric bikes" not drugs...

 

[Lowell]

I looked at one of those pedal assisted e-scooters that someone was selling off Craigslist. It was a grey market chinese import complete with a fake certification decal stating it was legal in Canada. The best part was that it had no pedal system whatsoever. Not just pedals removed, but no shaft, chain, sprockets, nothing.

Decal looks like this:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/index.html#power

I wonder who's smoking the 'home grown' stuff in Ontario?? From the last line on that link:

"You can tell an e-bike is an e-bike by its label." :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Lessss]

That quebec Valueride posting was a regulation for HIGHWAY riding.

492.2. A person may not ride a power-assisted bicycle on a public highway unless



What is interesting is this
A motor-assisted bicycle is a bicycle that:
is fitted with pedals that are operable at all times to propel the bicycle;
weighs not more than 55 kilograms;
has no hand or foot operated clutch or gearbox driven by the motor and transferring power to the driven wheel;
has a piston displacement of not more that 50 cubic centimetres; and,
does not attain a speed greater than 50 km/hr on level ground within a distance of 2 km from a standing start.


For the BC reg I thought it had two provisions. One was for power assist. Which is the first 3 KM/Hr must be human. The other was for Power from start, but I guess I was wrong.

In BC getting caught is a $700.00 fine.

Oh and the law says a 500 W motor. Not 500 Watt output from the motor so 72 Volts is fine as long as the motor is labelled as 500W.

 

[Lowell]

X5 means 500 watts officer!

I thought it was "500 watts continuous output". Time to make up some official looking 500W mfr tags for the hub.

A quick check of the hub simulator shows that all but the mildest 36v 40x setups exceed 500w output. One of the local dealers here told me that their hub powered bikes exceed the 500w limit by a significant margin on the mid range, but make 500w at the maximum legal speed of 32km/h. Drag racing a pair of government rated "500w" products side by side verified a large difference between the two machines. Even with a heavier rider on the more powerful bike, it left the other in the dust every time, although top speeds were identical at 32km/h.

 

[safe]

500 Watts

Well, my "hunch" is that the motor power does matter. The police are more likely to let you pass if the motor is "legal" (or close to it) and you have gears than if you are riding the equivalent of a "muscle car" with a monster sized motor.

That's what I'm steering towards anyway.

However, the idea of "faking" the 500 Watt motor by simply "over-volting" it is good too. Be certain to remove the label of any 72 Volt controller you add. And then get used to lying...

 

[Lessss]

Motor must be labelled 500 W and you must stay below 33 KM/hr. Gear, volts and Wattage output are irrelevant to the law.

 

[RatoN]

500 Watts

Well, my "hunch" is that the motor power does matter. The police are more likely to let you pass if the motor is "legal" (or close to it) and you have gears than if you are riding the equivalent of a "muscle car" with a monster sized motor.

That's what I'm steering towards anyway.

However, the idea of "faking" the 500 Watt motor by simply "over-volting" it is good too. Be certain to remove the label of any 72 Volt controller you add. And then get used to lying...

Yup, that’s the thing that bothers me the most, Safe. WE are not doing anything wrong.

Besides, more voltage does not imply speeding, it give you more over all power. Furthermore, from my years riding a motorcycle I can affirm without a doubt that more power will get you out of bad situations more often than not. Slamming on the brakes is not always a good thing.

Motor must be labelled 500 W and you must stay below 33 KM/hr. Gear, volts and Wattage output are irrelevant to the law.

Well, i'll makem some nice 'n shiny labels then.

 

[safe]

Does speed cause accidents or accelleration?

On a fast motorcycle it's definitely the accelleration that gets people into trouble. They find themselves 50 yards further down the road than they expect because it takes a while for the brain to "catch up" with what is going on. (on the fast bikes)

Top speed, if attained at a modest accelleration, is from a safety standpoint easier to handle than sudden accelleration but less speed. However, sometimes being able to "point and shoot" and get yourself out of trouble is really nice.

It comes down to opinions... I think limited motor size is easier to regulate. Top speed should be whatever the speed limit of the road you are on is posted to be. It's somewhat "pathological" to give people an electric bike that can't go more than 30 mph and then place them on a road that is posted as 35 mph. That FORCES cars to always pass and with every pass there is increasing danger for the cyclist.

So the arguments are complex...

 

[fechter]

Motor must be labelled 500 W and you must stay below 33 KM/hr. Gear, volts and Wattage output are irrelevant to the law.

I think I have some 500w labels on some controllers somewhere. Good idea.

I don't know many cops that carry around a wattmeter to measure scooters, so they won't be able to prove the sticker's wrong.

 

[Lowell]

Motor must be labelled 500 W and you must stay below 33 KM/hr. Gear, volts and Wattage output are irrelevant to the law.

I think I have some 500w labels on some controllers somewhere. Good idea.

I don't know many cops that carry around a wattmeter to measure scooters, so they won't be able to prove the sticker's wrong.

Wonder what the best thing to do if you have an onboard wattmeter like the Drain Brain is?

 

[Geebee]

We have a maximum power of 200w Maximum at the motor shaft here in OZ, so basically if it moves chances are its over the legal limit.
The police don't seem to give a toss though, I have been pulled over for a breath test on my Vespa styled scooter and they were not concerned about the bike at all and I was riding in one of our hillest suburbs. The scooter is 500 w with a bypass relay that will hit 1000w at peak.
I always drive like a car though ie. I don't cut lanes, run red lights etc.
Regarding the brain drain doesn't it turn of with the power switch? if so just turn off the bike.

 

[Lowell]

200W? How did they come up with that figure? I guess the governement there doesn't want to encourage alternate means of transportation?

 

[Lessss]

The 200W limit is a mentality thing. The gov basically is of the opinion that electric bikes are for kids, hence the very low wattage rating. Sounds like there needs to be a major campaign push in OZ to rationalize it's restrictions with Canada and the US if not better them. My opinion is that the restictions on an electric bike should be speed only and based entirely on the controller.

 

[Mathurin]

Back on topic:

Woah, an electric Oryx Spitfire!
Looks like a good ride, too.

 

[Lowell]

Yes, back on topic...

I just noticed the cranks/pedals are now foot pegs. This is similar to what I was thinking of doing, as I have my X5 hub mounted up with no chain or rear derailer right now.