Electric assist in a trailer - Ridekick Power Trailer

[mwanger]

Thanks to dealers and Ridekick cyclists for answering questions on endless-sphere. In the next few posts, a summary of user experience will be shared with you all.

“if it is a simple install and handles well, I could see this being widely accepted by folks without the skills to engineer, install, or maintain an ebike kit. It also has a decent price point, and the utility of being able to carry stuff.”

This comment nails it. Many people on endless-sphere have the ingenuity to configure kits or create their own custom devices. RK trailer owners found it was very simple and installation was 15 minutes. And they can unhitch it and get their “naked bike” back in seconds. (No motor or battery weight.)

The RK power trailer (we like to call it an “e-bike in a trailer”) can be hitched to many of your family’s bikes so it can be shared quickly. Hook it to the tandem for a ride with your kid, or your cruiser for going downtown for dinner, or … you get the picture.

“Not as fast as I would prefer, but likely fast enough for the target audience”
20 mph is faster than people generally ride on trips, and under 20mph assist enables one to ride without special license or insurance policies.

Again, there are very clever people on endless-sphere that can easily extend the speed limits of electric assist with various motors, controllers and batteries. Chase your passion!

Ride on,

Mark

 

[mwanger]

BATTERIES
There have been lots of comments about SLA batteries. They have a bad reputation for e-bikes because they are large and heavy, but they are inexpensive and can last a long time.

The magic of the power trailer is the cargo space and weight capacity. Many RK cyclists ride with 2 full SLA battery packs (36lbs, 12V, 24AH) and find the boost easily overcomes the extra weight. Furthermore, even with lots of weight in the trailer, the bicycle handles quite well. Compare that to an e-bike with 36 lbs of battery, it just doesn’t maneuver as well as a bike with a trailer.

Distance per charge:
A person posted that they calculated 6 miles per charge based on 500W. The calculations were good, except the assumptions were incorrect.
The motor is rated at 500W but average riding uses ~ 200-300W. (We use a larger motor so it doesn’t wear out prematurely.)

Riders consistently get 12-15 miles with light pedaling at 15mph, and 10-12 miles at 18mph (wind resistance is a big factor, so speed decreases mileage.) Many have written to us saying they use the boost for uphill or into the wind riding and then pedal themselves for the rest of the time – they like the exercise without the strain. They report ranges from 20 to 35 miles between charges.

There are two power settings on the RK power trailer. Setting the controller at higher power provides more acceleration and it is fun to get a stronger kick from a full stop. During a commute with stop/starts, riders report 8-10 miles/charge with the extra kick. It’s like gas mileage in a car; expect lower mpg with jack-rabbit starts.


Life: one comment summarizes the feelings about SLA life
i have gone thru 3 sets of sla batts in under a year b4 i built my…
Instructions with the RK battery pack explain why recharging frequently enhances life. For another level of protection, the RK controller doesn’t discharge below 80%.

Ridekick batteries are lasting 3 seasons (so far) and only a few customers have had battery issues. When used correctly, SLA can be recharged >400 times which is 4,800 miles at 12 miles/charge.

Looking forward to your comments... the trailer configuration adds a different twist to electric assist.

 

[Lock]

When used correctly, SLA can be recharged >400 times...

Yes, but when in "normal" use (abuse by humans) they can last a lot less cycles... You might caution your customers that they have this possible range of performance, depending on them. I guess you are supplying high quality chargers with the Ride Kick... a good thing.

Lock

 

[mwanger]

Lithium Batteries
Lithium batteries are all the rage. They are lighter, have more capacity, and do better in cold temperatures, so when will we provide lithium batteries for the Ridekick power trailer?

Quality, capacity (miles), and price are important. This forum and others provided warning that not all lithium batteries last very long and some chemistries are more hazardous. After 2 years of testing and qualification, we found a competent source of good LiFePO4. This is what took us so long... delivering a consistently good lithium battery.

Riders have expressed a NEED for distance per charge. So instead of outfitting a 10AH, the first RK lithium battery is a large capacity 20AH and provides over 30 miles per charge. It’s a joy to string together a series of errands and have the range to power all the way. We’re almost done with our first batch of production… we’ll have the details on our website soon.

 

[oatnet]

You are posting a classified ad in "Items for sale New." Per forum rules, please list the individual item you have for sale, and the price. Please be aware that unlike the rest of endless sphere, posts are age-deleted from this section, so any content you post here will be lost.

-JD

PS - Mods - what would you think of having a Factory/dealer/manufacturer's section, where companies can post threads to discuss and showcase their products, without cluttering up IFSN?

 

[Ypedal]

Well, the OP needs to explain his position.. if he's a vendor and wants to sell these things here, it needs pictures and PRICE ....

if it's a review, we have a section for that :wink: ..

talk to us Jim..

 

[oatnet]

FWIW, I moved this out of Ebike General Discussion to Items For Sale - New, because it is posted by the maker of the item in question, and is an advertisement about features of their product. AFAIK, discussion threads should be started by end-users, not makers, dealers, etc. If makers and dealers want to advertise their products, they need to be in the For Sale sections.

Ah, I see why it doesn't have pricing, and I see why you moved it here. And the description of this section is "Place for dealers to post items for sale," although I've always thought of it as a place for members to sell new items.

AW, Y, any thoughts on the idea of adding a seperate "Dealer's Showcase" section? I dunno that I would visit such a section often, but it would give us a bucket to quarantine these kinds of posts, that seem to be coming up more and more often. OTOH, maybe that would go against Justin's intent of preventing commercialization on E:S, so maybe I should shut up. OTOOH, E:S would not profit from the section - no commercialization - and people wouldn't have to see it unless they go there.

And FWIW, I thought the ridekick was a well executed product, accessible to folks that would be intimidated by much of what we do here, and at a reasonable price point. I just don't need to see a breakdown of SLA vs Lithium, I think most of us here have mastered that point. :lol:

-JD

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Personally I'd hate to see ES go commercial. Too many good forums have been wrecked by becoming full of dealers bullshitting about their products - the UK Pedelecs forum is a prime example of this, is full of imbecile dealers who don't, in the main, know what they are talking about, trying to win a sale out of the unsuspecting potential customers who venture in to that forum.

I think we should draw the line here, and not allow "mock reviews" like the posts by this manufacturer. I have no problem with legitimate adverts, but it wasn't clear that the OP here was connected with the manufacturer of this product, which seems a bit disingenuous.

Jeremy

 

[Ypedal]

I agree.. we have been discussing this in the mod forum for a bit as of lately,

I, or someone, will start a seperate thread for that at some point in the near future..

 

[joster]

A person posted that they calculated 6 miles per charge based on 500W. The calculations were good, except the assumptions were incorrect.
The motor is rated at 500W but average riding uses ~ 200-300W. (We use a larger motor so it doesn’t wear out prematurely.)

Riders consistently get 12-15 miles with light pedaling at 15mph, and 10-12 miles at 18mph (wind resistance is a big factor, so speed decreases mileage.) Many have written to us saying they use the boost for uphill or into the wind riding and then pedal themselves for the rest of the time – they like the exercise without the strain. They report ranges from 20 to 35 miles between charges.

I ride 8.2 miles to work each way (Portland to Vancouver on a paved bike route) w/ my ridekick and recharge the battery at both to & from... The battery controller rates the strength of the battery @ L1-L9. It has been my experience pedaling (using the ridekick on hills only) that i will get to work at L3 or L4 level; however, if i don't pedal and just use the ridekick it will be at low at the L1 level about the 6-7 mile point (this is w/ a new sla battery)....that being said i absolutely love this thing and am looking forward to the upgraded battery when it comes out. I can take the r.k. off the hitch in about 15 second and have a regular bike to ride

 

[Recumbent Bicycle Source]

A person posted that they calculated 6 miles per charge based on 500W. The calculations were good, except the assumptions were incorrect.
The motor is rated at 500W but average riding uses ~ 200-300W. (We use a larger motor so it doesn’t wear out prematurely.)

Riders consistently get 12-15 miles with light pedaling at 15mph, and 10-12 miles at 18mph (wind resistance is a big factor, so speed decreases mileage.) Many have written to us saying they use the boost for uphill or into the wind riding and then pedal themselves for the rest of the time – they like the exercise without the strain. They report ranges from 20 to 35 miles between charges.

I ride 8.2 miles to work each way (Portland to Vancouver on a paved bike route) w/ my ridekick and recharge the battery at both to & from... The battery controller rates the strength of the battery @ L1-L9. It has been my experience pedaling (using the ridekick on hills only) that i will get to work at L3 or L4 level; however, if i don't pedal and just use the ridekick it will be at low at the L1 level about the 6-7 mile point (this is w/ a new sla battery)....that being said i absolutely love this thing and am looking forward to the upgraded battery when it comes out. I can take the r.k. off the hitch in about 15 second and have a regular bike to ride

It's good to know from an actual user what kind of mileage they are getting per charge actually using the thing for work commuting. Have you taken it up any of the trails in the West Hills? Do you commute downtown or up and over I 205? Curious as I've been there and the 205 across the while not terribly steep (2 to 3% maybe) is a pretty good climb.

Wonder how long the battery would last climbing up out of PDX into the West Hills or on a long sustained run up Barbur Blvd?

 

[joster]

Sorry.... I should have given a little more info....When i tested it for range, the r.k. was empty + battery (my weight is about 210lb and my bike is 27lb). I have about 200 miles on the r.k. right now...lets see what else?? The two complaints i have is the range of the lead battery & the connection strap that hold the battery in place. After ever ride, i have to tighten the hex screw to keep the battery in place...When i got it, i really thought I would have traction problems especially since it rains a bit in Portland; however, i have never had a problem yet (knock on wood)...sorry i'm diverging back to your question... I ride the Columbia Slough Trail toward Marine Drive & over the I-5 bridge. I think the average grade on hills would be probably 1-2% with my biggest grade on the Columbia Slough Trail with a short hill at approximately 10%. I think the West Hills or Barbur Blvd would eat the r.k. for breakfast without a LiFePO4 battery but i have yet to try it. Its my experience that it has the power & traction to keep going forward (although slowly) on the steepest paved grades but the stock lead battery will go fairly fast. I would wait for the LIFEPO4 version....The shop I got it from let me try it for 3 days @ 30$ and credited me the difference on a purchase...I will say a VERY, VERY, happy w/ the r.k. and may pick up a second one for my wife....

 

[Recumbent Bicycle Source]

Thank you for getting back to me. Marine Drive is such a long flat ride... I'm sure it's fun down that way, haven't been that way on a bike through. Barbur is such a long climb that's why I was basically wondering. If it would A> Have enough power to push you up it without bogging down below 10mph. B> Drain the battery super fast without any way to monitor it, because it's my understanding you have to stop and open it up to see the battery charge indicator.

I'm sure RideKick could care less about my opinions... I've ridden all kinds of bikes all over the West.

RideKick still seems like a good product to me, but a bit of a one trick pony. I haven't really thought about how water would effect the unit as the motor is on the underside and might get spray from the back tire?

If my two cents mattered I think RideKick should sell as components with upgrades to increase margin opportunities for dealers and to increase sales by allowing flexibility for customers.

I'd like to see them sell a bare trailer for people who want trailers... then:

Chose a motor - 24, 36, or 48 volt. And make them upgradeable... maybe even a trade in allowance on motors for people who want to power up.

Then add to that mix a choice of batteries and capacities.

Seem like that would be the approach to take. Then you have a complete line of options with no real additional cost to the design process... maybe a little more inventory cost but not much. Scooter motors all seem to be about $100 at retail.. .and of course batteries are commodity items too.

I'm sure that controller is software programmable and would require much of an upgrade to run 24 - 48 volts.

Anyways I'm glad you are enjoying your push trailer, I'm still on the fence, but know for sure I won't be persuaded to ever by anything with SLA... as in my view it's totally wasted money. And RideKick can push SLA all they want, but it's a path to failure.

 

[joster]

Wow, all your comments are spot on. I hope Ridekick puts them in play. The SLA's they issue w/ it are garbage. It would be a cool day if I could pick a modular ridekick by motor size, battery type, ex....For what I use it for, it does me well; however, i hope they are listening to your comments. Thanks for your time.

 

[joster]

Just a quick update:

I just got the new lifepo4 battery from ridekick.

Pros:
- Range is no longer an issue. I can go to work & back on one charge.
- Fixed the battery mounting issue with a new plate, strap, and screw (my sla would vibrate out all the time).

Cons:
- Price...@ $758 it is about double in cost to an equivalent lifepo4 ping battery.
- They updated the firmware for the new battery and while the top speed is the same (about 20mph) the giddyup (or acceleration) feels less than before the upgrade.

Overall:
- I respectfully disagree w/ the posted 400 charges w/ a 12 mile range on a sla. If you go w/ a new ridekick, skip the sla and get a lifepo4 from the start.

 

[TheJasonD]

I'm going to get a ridekick from Holland bicycle here in Coronado. I believe the Ridekick is excellent for my application. Usually on my daily commute it's only about a two mile total ride from NAS North Island to my Condo in San Diego when I take the ferry. But some days I would like to take the strand from Coronado to San Diego which is about a 25 mile trip.

The problem occurs in the last ten miles or so when I'm going against the wind I start to Bonk, and I get performance anxiety. It would be nice to have The Ridekick in my hip pocket to use when I need it.

Yes I am getting the sla for right now, hope to upgrade to the li as soon as I get some cash.

Will give a report of my experience using the sidekick when I get it

Jason