Electric Mountain Bikes – Friend or Foe (Article on MTBR)

neptronix said:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: excellent troll, fine sir.
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Thank you, I gave it my best :D

I didn't vote on the poll, because in my experience, online polls on a controversial topic are pretty much useless.
 
efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:
go to the library and vote on every machine.. :wink: :lol:
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My library has 3 computers and is right across the street from the local college that I used to teach at. Good luck with that. I prefer Chicago rules :twisted:
otherDoc
 
skyungjae said:
fizzit said:
neptronix said:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: excellent troll, fine sir.
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Thank you, I gave it my best :D

I didn't vote on the poll, because in my experience, online polls on a controversial topic are pretty much useless.
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True, and the options to pick aren't great either.
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I wished some of the comments would point this out. There's simply no choice of "fine with me". Biased, POS poll if there ever was one...
 
Has anyone on this forum gone to the other forum and posted links to ES? Maybe it might bring some of them to this forum to have a look-see and get a good idea of all the time and effort we put into our e-rides. Because as mentioned before, Google tends to take you to links that redirect you to ready built e-bikes and not the stuff that we mostly deal with. Maybe then they'll understand all the effort that actually goes into our effortless rides.
 
mtbr.com is being forced to report on ebikes haha.. : :lol: 8)

Mtbr.com Eurobike Blog:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/2013-mtbr-eurobike-blog
maybe more bikes like this will change a few minds.. :D
eBike-Animal.jpg
 
It's actually very simple to regulate ebikes on mountain bike trails: implement a weight limit.
Ebikes can't go very fast for very long without a large battery and that increases the weight. Likewise with powerful motors.
 
Architectonic said:
It's actually very simple to regulate ebikes on mountain bike trails: implement a weight limit.
Ebikes can't go very fast for very long without a large battery and that increases the weight. Likewise with powerful motors.
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I don't think that would work because people will argue about rider weight having an effect on trails as well. People often correlate e-bikes with out of shape/overweight people, but that's simply not true. I've seen my fair share of 250lbs+ riders on their sub-30lbs $3000 shiny 29ers on the trail. A 160lbs person on a 62lbs w/ battery Prodeco Outlaw is probably going to cause less damage to the terrain.

It would make more sense to regulate bike weight + rider w/ gear. That would not be something easy to enforce though, and unfortunately, it's far easier just to ban e-bikes in general from bike paths and trails. :(

The local mountain resort had a 45lbs weight limit this year. What's funny about that is my downhill bike weighed more than that prior to converting it to an e-bike. :lol:

I guess it really depends on the trail and who enforces the regulations on the trail. The ones I primarily ride is shared with horses as well, so using some sort of weight regulation wouldn't make much sense for bicycles regardless of human or battery powered.
 
r3volved said:
That's funny...since I can peddle faster than local regulated e-bike speed...
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Most of those people reading those MTBR articles know little about e-bikes and what they are capable of off road. They assume that e-bikes are electric motorcycles that can bomb uphills as quickly as they can go down. I'm sure there are a few very expensive e-bikes that can do that which so happen to be the first to show up on their Google searches. The reality of the matter is that most e-bikes that fall within the guidelines of local laws, especially regarding power, simply aren't going to perform like petrol drinking dirt bikes. Even when I'm pushing 1500W while pedaling on a relatively steep incline, there are regular riders who can burst up the hill faster. Of course I'm not breathing as hard when I get to the top, but I'm also not getting there first.
 
skyungjae said:
The ones I primarily ride is shared with horses as well, so using some sort of weight regulation wouldn't make much sense for bicycles regardless of human or battery powered.
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i can live with that.
ebike power is capped@one horse.
then so should weight.
what's equine top speed? 30mph? 35?
lets push to rationalize for the off-road 1horse-standard across the board.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
skyungjae said:
The ones I primarily ride is shared with horses as well, so using some sort of weight regulation wouldn't make much sense for bicycles regardless of human or battery powered.
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i can live with that.
ebike power is capped@one horse.
then so should weight.
what's equine top speed? 30mph? 35?
lets push to rationalize for the off-road 1horse-standard across the board.
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A real horse can easily put out far more than 1hp... I'm liking this standard :mrgreen:
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
skyungjae said:
The ones I primarily ride is shared with horses as well, so using some sort of weight regulation wouldn't make much sense for bicycles regardless of human or battery powered.
Click to expand...

i can live with that.
ebike power is capped@one horse.
then so should weight.
what's equine top speed? 30mph? 35?
lets push to rationalize for the off-road 1horse-standard across the board.
Click to expand...

In the United States, I think the federal definition does suffice. 750W is roughly 1hp. With that little power, you're barely going to see double digit speeds on technical or uphill terrain. The only significant speed boosts will only be seen in people who are somewhat already talented riders. Those non-pedalers and/or people who are new or not good at riding on dirt are probably going to end up climbing at walking speeds if not actually walking the bike. :lol: That being said, I don't think speed is an issue. Also on my trails, there are signs that say "Bicycles watch downhill speed."

I guess what I'm trying to say is that so long as the e-bike falls under the local (Country, County, City, etc) law's definition of what's still a bicycle and not a motorcycle, there shouldn't be any special regulation. Likely, it's not going to be any faster that conventional bikes, any more dangerous, or any more damaging to the terrain.

The key here is simply to educate the mountain bike community that not all mountain e-bikes are a Stealth Bomber. I see the "bicycle + motor = motorcycle" rationale way too much on that forum. I try to explain it that an e-bike is more like juicing without the side effects. That motorcycle analogy is like comparing a golf cart to a Tesla car.
 
In Australia we're limited to 200w or the Euro-spec bikes of 25kph/250w. Obviously insufficient for a decent off road bike. This is why I think a weight limit is reasonable, just to enforce a reasonable demarcation between what is clearly not a mtb (eg a 50kg+ electric bike) and one that is.

The trail impact of a 30kg electric bike is similar, it is just that people fear ebikers doing silly things like bombing up trails at fast speeds etc. But it is indeed a bit of a beat up/fear that their rights to the trail will be removed due to ebikers.
 
This situation quickly turned from an easy ride-in-the-woods to a life-and-death survival scenario that the e-bike rider is poorly equipped to handle
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Apparently allowing people to ride ebikes on trails = trails littered with dead bodies of stranded riders :lol:
 
efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:
Electric “Mountain Bikes” Don’t Belong on MTB Trails ???
http://www.singletracks.com/blog/un...ric-mountain-bikes-dont-belong-on-mtb-trails/

:x :evil: :evil:
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point, counterpoint...

"Opinion: Electric Mountain Bikes Belong on MTB Trails" by Jeff Barber

http://www.singletracks.com/blog/uncategorized/opinion-electric-mountain-bikes-belong-on-mtb-trails/

Mountain biking, like many modern sports, is built on a foundation of continuous technology improvements and electric mountain bikes are just another development in that progression. It’s unfair to discriminate against trail users based on the equipment they choose to utilize and it’s hypocritical for mountain bikers–long blocked from trail access by ultra low-tech hikers–to discriminate against riders who choose to utilize the latest technology out on the trail.

Perhaps the easiest argument to make against electric mountain bikes is that they’re motorized and there is a long precedent for distinguishing between motorized and non-motorized trail use. But the most often-cited reasons for that distinction–noise and trail damage–don’t apply to electric mountain bikes. The latest e-MTB models are silent and don’t feature a throttle, making it nearly impossible to break traction, let alone cause the type of trail damage normally associated with motorized off-road vehicles. Electric mountain bikes are also much lighter than gas-guzzling dirt bikes, which keeps their impact on par with the mountain bikes already on the trail.

Proponents of e-bikes talk about the potential to expand the sport of mountain biking which is good or bad depending on how you look at it. But consider the types of riders e-bikes can potentially put on the trail: older riders who don’t have the same power they used to, people with physical handicaps, or mountain bikers recovering from injuries. Banning anyone from a trail based on their abilities or inabilities is obviously a non-starter.

Adaptive mountain biking is well established and adding an electric motor is just another adaptation some riders may need to help them on the trail. It’s a slippery slope to start designating which bike technologies are allowed on the trail and which ones aren’t. Banning electric drivetrains would be like banning hydraulic disc brakes on certain trails because they’re too easy to operate compared to rim brakes. Insane!

Electric mountain bikes are heavier than their cross-country equivalents (though similar to many DH sleds) which some have argued makes them potentially dangerous on backcountry trails where a failed battery can leave an unfit rider stranded miles from the nearest exit point. The argument goes that e-bikes shouldn’t be allowed on these trails because they can be dangerous for unprepared riders and potentially increase search and rescue costs for emergency responders.

This is true: e-bike riders need to be responsible, but in the same way all mountain bikers do. A trip into the backcountry without a spare tire or pump is potentially disastrous with or without an electric drivetrain. Yet, you won’t see a note at the trailhead requiring riders to carry emergency items in their packs or barring riders who choose to go out unprepared. Personal responsibility remains in effect for everyone. [In fact, many communities already charge individuals for a rescue if it's determined the individual should have made more adequate preparations.]

But say the battery didn’t run out and instead, the rider lost one pedal (this has happened to me) or injured a leg. With power assist, an e-bike ends up assisting in a rescue rather than necessitating one. Now I won’t go so far as to say every bike should be equipped with an emergency battery but that’s food for thought.

Finally, some may argue about potential collisions and conflicts between e-bike riders riding along at much faster speeds than their non-assisted brothers and sisters. For this reason, the argument goes, e-bikes should not be allowed on the same trails as regular mountain bikes. In reality, e-bikes include speed governors with even the most liberal government-mandated caps landing at 28mph or less. Even then, riders need to put in a significant effort to reach those speeds. Fast riders and slow riders have been sharing the trails for decades and we’ve even established etiquette like downhill riders yielding to the (slower) rider who is climbing. While some e-bike specific norms may need to be established, the differences between e-bike and non-e-bike riders are not so significant that they can’t share the trails.

Adding an electric drivetrain to a mountain bike is no different than kitting a rig with the latest tech in suspension or even hydraulic disc brakes. We all ride for the same reasons–fun, exercise, and experiencing nature–so everyone deserves access to the same trails without regard to the equipment they need or prefer.
 
In the 11/1 issue of BRAIN there is a snippet article that says Zapata Espinoza, MTBHOF member and former editor of MTB Action, came back from Eurobike "electrified" by e bikes and persuaded his boss Roland Hinz (hi-torque publications) to launch Electric Bike Action magazine. The magazine will take a broad look at the two wheeled electric market, including motorcycles according to the article.
 
haha you beat me to it.. :wink:
still great to hear! 8)

sk8norcal said:
^ from reading MBAction in the 90's, they always have a pro- "moto" stance.
so it wasn't surprising to to see Zap interested in ebikes....

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54998
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sk8norcal said:
point, counterpoint...

"Opinion: Electric Mountain Bikes Belong on MTB Trails" by Jeff Barber

http://www.singletracks.com/blog/uncategorized/opinion-electric-mountain-bikes-belong-on-mtb-trails/
Click to expand...

The comment section is what really gets me when it comes to these articles. Anyhow, I did write up a few responses to the motorcycle comparison people keep on bringing up.

If you Facebook users could like the comments supporting e-bikes on the trails, that would be great.
 
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