Electric Tryke goes backwards, quickly. What did I do?

[watkinskb]

I need some help with my electric tryke.

The woman who sold it to me couldn't understand the directions from the guy she bought it from.

When I hook up the battery, I go backwards. Very fast but wrong way.

Full size adult tricycle with 2 wheelchair motors and 2 12v batteries hooked to a monstrous controller. I took the batteries off to store it.

This is not a Curry or iZip product. If you need pics, tell me which ones.

 

[skeetab5780]

If it is a brushed motor/controller system it may be as simple as reversing the motor phases.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Since this uses wheelchair motors, I'd look for a reverse setting on the controller. It may be in the way the throttle was attached, since as a wheelchair, it would have a throttle input for forward, and one for reverse.

But it could also be the motors are just hooked up backwards. Or maybe the design of the bike uses the left motor on the right side and vice versa, so they're flipped and need to be run in revrse to go forward. Its hard to say without knowing a lot more about the conversion. But a wheelchair controller will have a reverse, otherwise great great grandma would roll herself into the closet to get her shawl, and be stuck there for ever.

 

[mlt34]

You'll need to post a pic of the motor and controller so we can see whats going on. How many wires go into the motor from the controller? It's surely a simple fix, though without more info, it's hard to advise you which fix to do.

 

[watkinskb]

You'll need to post a pic of the motor and controller so we can see whats going on. How many wires go into the motor from the controller? It's surely a simple fix, though without more info, it's hard to advise you which fix to do.

Okay, there is 2 of these motors in the pic, they are spliced together with the controller and come as 2 (-+)wires to the battery area. Then 2 sla batteries 12v, he has a jumper from the neg to pos, so am guessing its series. The charger is like a laptop adapter with a -+. I took both batteries off to store and forgot whether the controller neg and pos wire attaches to the front or back battery.
I know the motors have a switch on them that sets it in neutral to pedal or in drive mode.

And I am new to this and know nothing except that I wanna RIDE MY TRICYCLE. Bought it for 150 bucks. None of the biuke shops in this area want to work on it unless I buy their parts. Why do I need more parts. I know it goes. It's just backwards, lol.

will get actual bike pics tomorrow.

Thanks for helping me!

 

[mlt34]

Somebody back me up here, but that's a brushed step down motor, right? That means by reversing the polarity of the leads from the motor to the controller, you can reverse the direction of the wheel. But you shouldn't reverse the leads from the controller to the battery, because then the controller likely won't turn on. There should likely be two fat red and black wires from the controller, those are for the battery. Then two more fat wires, often blue and yellow, those are for the motor. Those need to be switched. I'm about 90% positive here. Can anyone else confirm?

 

[Rassy]

I took both batteries off to store and forgot whether the controller neg and pos wire attaches to the front or back battery.

Don't do anything too rash, since you can destroy your controller if you hook it up backwards. The above statement doesn't make much sense. You said it was a series battery system, which means it is a 24 volt system. You only have four battery terminals and the positive from one goes to the negative of the other. The remaining positive terminal would go to the positive controller wire, which is normally red and the remaining negative terminal would go to the negative controller wire, which is normally black. If hooking the battery back up isn't that simple please post some pictures.

 

[dogman dan]

I agree, get very careful about hooking back up. Be very very very sure you don't reverse polarity from the battery to the controller.

The one you need to flip, is the polarity from controller to motor. It should run the other way if you flip them.

 

[watkinskb]

okay here are the pics.

there is the jumper and the 2 wires from the controller, neg and pos. Which battery do I attach it to? Because the neg and pos on the seat is for the charger and has to be wired to one battery. The motor has a bent post that you turn for neutral or drive, turned toward motors is neutral, point forward is drive.

 

[mlt34]

okay here are the pics.

there is the jumper and the 2 wires from the controller, neg and pos. Which battery do I attach it to? Because the neg and pos on the seat is for the charger and has to be wired to one battery. The motor has a bent post that you turn for neutral or drive, turned toward motors is neutral, point forward is drive.

So if I understand you correctly, the wires on the seat are the charger and the wires on the side of the 'trunk' are the controller? If that's the case, you wire it like this:
white controller wire to empty red battery pole closest to the seat
black controller wire to empty black battery pole closest to rear of the trike
red charger wire to empty red battery pole closest to the seat (same as white controller wire)
black charger wire to empty black battery pole closest to the rear of the trike (same as black controller wire)

That should give you forward driving motion. If it gives you a backwards spinning motor, switch the wires from the motor to the controller (those wires aren't in your picture). Do NOT switch the wires from the battery to the controller.

 

[amberwolf]

i've run this type of setup on crazybike2, so here's some questions:

1--is there any equipment on the trike besides the motor(s), controller, batteries, and charger box?

2--are there any controls like a throttle or a knob or a lever to let you engage the motors or change their speed?

3--do the motors start as soon as you hook up the batteries? or does it require operating the control from number 2?

4--will you post pictures of the charger's label(s)?

5--will you post pictures of any other equipment that is on the trike, including controller labels?


normally the controller box has two wires from the batteries, and depending on type separate pairs of wires from each motor, sometimes four wires from each motor because there is an electric brake on most of those powerchair motors unless it has been physically removed (whcih is what I did to mine).


it is possible the wires from the motor to the controller are swapped, if they also just screw on like the wires on the seat from the charger appear to do. but if they go to a plug they they are probably correct, assuming this trike did once operate correctly.


if in question number 2 the answer is yes, and if the batteries are/were hooked backwards to the controller, it is possible for it (dpeending on design) to have failed in a way that shorts power direclty to the motors, letting them run backwards at full power even though you haven't commanded it to from the controls. Some are protected against this kind of thing, but some are not.

if that is the case then swapping the power wires to the controller from teh batteries back to the correct way is unlikely to fix it, as the fets are probably already damaged/shorted, but if you post pics of how things are hooked up, labels, and such, we should be able to determine if it is correct or not. we may also be able to help you fix the cotnroller if you wish and are able, or find a replacement controller for you.



if the controller box is from a powerchair, then most of the time they require all of the powerchair's wiring/interlocks to be defeated or be present to work at all, and usually have a joystick type control, which can sometimes fail so that it runs only forwards or backwards at full speed. but some of them have a simple type of control that uses either a paddle or a knob to control speed and direction forward or reverse. if yours has taht then turning it to the halfway point usually sets it to off, and to one side goes forward and the other way reverse.


if the controller is just a regular brushed c ontroller like a curtis, then there is usually nothing besides a throttle input, battery input, and motor output, and it only has a forward mode, no reverse. to reverse it the motor wires must physically be swapped. if that's the case then just swapping the two main motor wires will reverse their direction.

 

[watkinskb]

Okay guys. The wires in the previous pic are the only wires. The charger is like a laptop adapter with the pos and neg on one end

this pic is the controller(ick). It has a key, and a switch and then you hear the motor then use the big dial to the right to increase your speed. Would like to get this bike rolling and put a decent controller on it. Nothing on this has a reverse the guy said. He is baffled at why it would go reverse. Neutral is the post facing the motors and drive is facing the seat.

No extras yet. It has a coaster brake as well as a left hand brake.

I am going back over to storage to hook it like suggested above, god i hope it works.
Having issues with my image sizes for your forum so can't post the whole bike.

 

[amberwolf]

this pic is the controller(ick). It has a key, and a switch and then you hear the motor then use the big dial to the right to increase your speed. Would like to get this bike rolling and put a decent controller on it.

that looks an awful lot like a big rheostat type controller. if so, it almost certainly does'nt actually have polarity-sensitive electronics inside and so the battery wires could actually be reversed.

but reversing the motor wires would fix it regardless, as long as the controller is operating, and is the safest thing to try first.


fwiw, if it is a rheostat type contorller then it will probably be a lot hotter at lower speeds than at higher speeds, because it is essentially just wasting power across it instead of using it in the motors.


does the keyswitch at each of it's positions also change it's speeds?

Nothing on this has a reverse the guy said. He is baffled at why it would go reverse.

if it has no reverser (usually a set of relays that simply switch the motor wires when it's engaged) then the only reason is if the power to the motors is reversed.

Neutral is the post facing the motors and drive is facing the seat.

That's just the clutch inside the gearbox; it's useful for when you just want to move the vehicle by hand, or pedal it if it still has pedals, or even just coast (if there are no freewheels at the wheel end), since the gearboxes add lots of drag.

Having issues with my image sizes for your forum so can't post the whole bike.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14748

 

[watkinskb]

this pic is the controller(ick). It has a key, and a switch and then you hear the motor then use the big dial to the right to increase your speed. Would like to get this bike rolling and put a decent controller on it.

that looks an awful lot like a big rheostat type controller. if so, it almost certainly does'nt actually have polarity-sensitive electronics inside and so the battery wires could actually be reversed.

but reversing the motor wires would fix it regardless, as long as the controller is operating, and is the safest thing to try first.


fwiw, if it is a rheostat type contorller then it will probably be a lot hotter at lower speeds than at higher speeds, because it is essentially just wasting power across it instead of using it in the motors.


does the keyswitch at each of it's positions also change it's speeds?

Nothing on this has a reverse the guy said. He is baffled at why it would go reverse.

if it has no reverser (usually a set of relays that simply switch the motor wires when it's engaged) then the only reason is if the power to the motors is reversed.

Neutral is the post facing the motors and drive is facing the seat.

That's just the clutch inside the gearbox; it's useful for when you just want to move the vehicle by hand, or pedal it if it still has pedals, or even just coast (if there are no freewheels at the wheel end), since the gearboxes add lots of drag.

Having issues with my image sizes for your forum so can't post the whole bike.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14748

I only took the batteries off for storage, I have not changed any connections except this. When I bought it, it wouldn't go because the woman had it in neutral and didn't know it. I have since turned it on and off, gone backwards
Those 4 wire ends in the above pic are the only thing I have changed and I forgot to take a pic before unhooking them(next time I will I guarantee ya, this has been a nightmare). There are 3 other trikes in varying stages like this around the US. Lazlo builds them, patents them and then sells them, building one now in texas. Problem is his very thick Ukranian accent, can't understand him nor him me.

 

[amberwolf]

I only took the batteries off for storage, I have not changed any connections except this. When I bought it, it wouldn't go because the woman had it in neutral and didn't know it. I have since turned it on and off, gone backwards
Those 4 wire ends in the above pic are the only thing I have changed and I forgot to take a pic before unhooking them(next time I will I guarantee ya, this has been a nightmare). There are 3 other trikes in varying stages like this around the US. Lazlo builds them, patents them and then sells them, building one now in texas. Problem is his very thick Ukranian accent, can't understand him nor him me.

if it did work originally, and nothing was disconnected or changed between the controller and motor, and no switch settings were changed on the controller (or you have tried them all already) then that implies that the battery wires to the controller are backwards.

the problem with testing that theory is that if the controller does indeed have semiconductors in it (i doubt it, though) then reversing the battery connections will probably damage or destroy them.

as for communications with the builder, then if you share a common written language perhaps you could try that method?

 

[watkinskb]

Alright, here at storage and hooked it up like mlt24 said and it works, but we go backwards again.
So, since I have never seen it go forward, I will now attempt to switch this wiring you are talking about.
Please note, there is a green n blue set of 2 wires from one motor, a white n green set of 2 from the other motor. ties into this 'wad' of adapters.

Tell me specifically which wires push or pull

 

[watkinskb]

Just thought some of you might like to see the rest of my Tryke besides the wires, lol.
Here is
http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/?start_tab=one_set72157632827734592

 

[amberwolf]

the flickr link you posted goes to your login/organizer, rather than to a place others can view the pics. if you post your link with your flickr username instead, we can see the pics. like this:
http://flickr.com/photos/amberwolf




so for the battery wiring, you presently have it like this?

white controller wire to empty red battery pole closest to the seat
black controller wire to empty black battery pole closest to rear of the trike

to be certain, are you saying that you have never seen the trike move forward at all, even after engaging the clutch levers on the gearbox(es) out of neutral into drive?

i ask because you said previously that all that was wrong before was that the lever(s) were in neutral, which implies that the trike did drive forward when they were engaged.

if it went backwards then, too, then it is likely that the motors were already wired backward to start with.

if it was not tested before, then there's no certain way to know, but it is still possible they were wired backwards already.

if it was tested before and it went forwards, then the motor wiring can't be wrong if it was not changed when teh batteries were removed for storage, and it must then be that the battery wires are not correctly connected now. that would mean that the black wire is actually the positive battery wire, and the white wire is the negative battery wire.

however, if that is incorrect, and the controller is not the simplistic type it appears to be, it will probably damage or destroy it.


for the motor wiring i can't tell you for certain which wires to swap without knowing the whole wiring diagram, and i can't see clearly what wires come from where and go to where.

but a best guess is that if the connectors for each motor are not polarized but each have two prongs, you can simply unplug each one, turn it 180 degrees, and plug it back into the same connector it came out of. but you have to reverse both of them before operating it.

if the connectors are only one prong each or only go to one wire from the controller, then simply unplugging both connectors, and swapping which one they plug into on the controller's wires, will reverse them.

 

[watkinskb]

Just thought some of you might like to see the rest of my Tryke besides the wires, lol.
Here is
http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/?start_tab=one_set72157632827734592

oops http://flickr.com/photos/geeknlingerie thanks for the tip amberwolf. I am not usually sharing or on forums of this type.

 

[watkinskb]

Wahoo!. I switched the pos and neg to the battery and away I went; FORWARD. Only at about 2 mph cause the batteries are low. Why did this guy wire this way? I am now looking for 1 more battery and a 'real' controller and throttle. Not bad for 150 bucks.
Thanks to everyone who asked questions and helped me understand about wiring. Best to you all.

 

[mlt34]

Congrats! Glad to see you moving (forwards) again!

 

[watkinskb]

I bought this tryke and the woman knew nothing of it. After a year in storage I finally got it back up and running but it blows the fuse when braking. The fuse is 35a.

2 12v batteries in series with a laptop style charger
2 13a wheelchair motors
Rheostat with key on
Can use coaster brake, but I forget because of riding newer bikes mostly
Feel free to ask for more pics if you want. Buy it and its ramps for 400 in Seattle or close to it.

Or tell me what kind of controller to put on it.