EM3EV 10t MAC rim confusion

melodious

100 kW
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My paypal bank deposit is due to be approved any day now for a large cellman purchase from EM3EV.com. My confusion is with the rim choices available at checkout. My bike is a stock 29er Surly Ogre. The rim choice that's available is linked here.

Will the Alex 700c rims fit my bike and 2.5" Big Apple tires :?:

Also, is the 9 fet 30A (36-72V, IRFB4110) future proof when I finally decide to go above 48V batteries into 60V :?: The reason for not just going to 60V immediately is because cellman's triangle pack w/bag fit perfectly into my medium Surly's frame :wink:
 
Big apple are 26" tires.. so you will need a 26" rim of course.
If you switch a bike's 700c rim for a 26" rim, then the rear vbrake is no longer going to line up. You will have to use disc brakes.

The 700c DH19 is a fairly narrow, standard diameter rim. A rim that you wouldn't want to put much more than a 1.75" wide tire on.

For a 10T, a 9FET might be okay but i recommend a 12FET for the future, if you really want to push the motor hard.
 
neptronix said:
Big apple are 26" tires.. so you will need a 26" rim of course.
I have BA's on my bike now. I was wondering if there were limitations to switching them to the new e-bike rims :?:

neptronix said:
If you switch a bike's 700c rim for a 26" rim, then the rear vbrake is no longer going to line up. You will have to use disc brakes.
Already have the stock bb7 180mm disc brakes on the rear. Moreover, I've upped the front discs to 203mm :wink: in anticipation of the speeds I'll be heading into.

neptronix said:
For a 10T, a 9FET might be okay but i recommend a 12FET for the future, if you really want to push the motor hard.
TY for the recommendation. I'm guessing a 3 speed switch & v3 Cycle Analyst will give me 3 modes of variable power, with the 3rd setting for straight, flat, smooth sections :?:
 
The FETs are the part that get hot from raising the amps. A 12-FET can handle more amps than the 9-FET, or conversely it will run cooler than a 9-FET at the same amps.

I believe the 4110 FETs are good for anything from 24V-100V, but the 48V max controller and 72V max controller will have a Low-Voltage-Cutoff (LVC) set to cut the power off when the battery gets low. Some controllers have an adjustable LVC, some do not (I don't know about the cell_man controllers).

Also the capacitors in the controller can be a limiting factor. 48V controllers often have 63V max capacitors, and 72V controllers often have 80V capacitors. It's quite possible that the 9-FET/4110/48V-72V controller you mention should be adjustable to run at both 48V or 60V.

Paul/cell_man @ em3ev has been very responsive in the past. Tell him you want to go to 60V in the future...
 
There wouldn't be any limitations as long as the rim fits the tire. Just get a rim that is wide enough for the job :) Alex DM24/DH24 is a pretty good width for a 2.5" tire ( 24mm inner width i believe. ).

Definitely get a 3 speed switch, or a throttle that has a 3 speed switch already.
 
I take a big hit in waste when I up from 9 to 12fets (30A to 40A) :?:

I don't mind getting off the line fast, but I want to get back home with battery juice leftover. 50 mile trips are not uncommon for me. I don't drive a car. My only experience with e-bikes is my 20" wheeled folder. @36V 20Ah & 15A controller, 90% of the time I can't deplete it to LVC :lol: but I'm only going sub 18mph at best.

Inputting a V2 BMC torque (this is close to the 10T MAC :?: ) & 48V 18.5Ah & 40A controller gives me just shy of 28miles @ WOT.
Let's put it on paper shall we :wink: :
Assuming V2 BMC torque motor (aka 10T MAC) is constant & 48V 18.5Ah battery is constant we get...
@40A it's 135 Newton-Metres of torque (is this enough to wheelie :?: )
@30A it's 118 Newton-Metres of torque
@25A it's 85 Newton-Metres of torque
They all give the same distance on 0% grade which is 28miles, 3% grade is 19miles, 8% grade is 13-14miles, above 9% there is a risk of overheating 8)

Now I'm starting to see the picture. The kit options allow for many variations in motor/controller combinations w/appropriate battery configuration of course. You take serious heat related risks if you go above his standardization. That's why he offers his 18fet (60A) & 24fet (90A) controllers separate from the plug & play kits. They are meant for Direct Drive.
 
Get the DX32 rim. I changed to these size rims from DM24 type over a year ago and will never use a narrower rim again. I wouldn't even consider a 19mm rim for any tire larger than 1.75. If you need a 700c wide rim, Weinmann makes one. Don't know where to find one though. I use them in 26". Very strong rim.
http://www.weinmanntek.com/Products/FREESTYLE/DH39.htm
 
I purchased a kit from Cell_man in late June for my Trek 8.4 DS 29'er. I bought the 8T motor (but would buy the 10T if I had to do it again).

Order:
* Upgrade EM3ev vers. Mac , 500/1000W Pick'n'Mix Kit
- Controller Type: 9 fet 30A (36-48V, IRFB3077)
- Motor Speed: 320rpm loaded @36V 8T Upgrade
- Front/Rear Motor: Rear
- Wheel Type: 700C Alex DH19 Disc
- Throttle Type: Half Twist
- Ebrakes: Yes
* 50V 18.5Ah Samsung Triangle Pack
- Bag: Including Bag
* Other misc. parts including a CA v3, three speed switch and fast charger.

My rim is the 700C Alex DH19 Disc. I put 29" Schwalbe Big Apples on the bike and absolutely love them. Puncture protection and really smooths out the ride. Corners great...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007JSOQLK/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The setup is great. I can get over 50+ miles (on the flats with a little pedaling) @ 22mph. The bike can cruise at 28 mph for miles and peaks at 35 mph. I think the 10T will have a lower top speed but more low end torque. I'd like that...

Great investment and very pleased with both the kit and quality.
 
BTW, I love the Surly Ogre! I have looked at that bike again and again... just not pulled the trigger yet. Please post pictures once you complete your build.

My bike with the old tires, which sucked:

Trek First eBike.jpg
 
One more thing...

Here is the ride where I attempted to deplete the battery (within reasonable limits, of course). I had a tailwind going down and what felt like an even larger headwind coming back. Flat course with pedaling... and some tooling around at the turn-around near the inlet (at the beach). 58 mile trip and I had power to spare when I returned. A couple of Amp Hours if I am remembering correctly. The Cycle Analyst v3 is really nice for both limiting your throttle and giving you *lots* of feedback and details. Recommended. (And Paul makes it all plug and play.)

http://cyclemeter.com/cf31e7e64ecfb850/Cycle-20130805-0920?r=c

Love this setup... photo with the Big Apple's and a couple of extra bags:
Trek DS 8.4 Big Apple.jpg
 
Thanx for the useful info folks, especially those whom have made similar decisions. Makes my purchase choices much easier. My paypal is now ready :D !

Still have a question: My bike's rear config is a Shimano Deore RD-M591, 9-speed. Should I buy the 9 speed gear cluster? Or am I forced to use a 7 speed gear cluster?
 
majornelson said:
I purchased a kit from Cell_man in late June for my Trek 8.4 DS 29'er.
My rim is the 700C Alex DH19 Disc. I put 29" Schwalbe Big Apples on the bike and absolutely love them. Puncture protection and really smooths out the ride. Corners great...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007JSOQLK/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Great bike choice and nice build, I saw a Trek DS 8.* bike at my local bike shop yesterday, this bike massively stood out as an ideal ebike conversion because it has a huge triangle frame space and the frame is deliberately designed to take wide 29er tires. Also has a 48T crank so you can go really fast and still use pedal assist.

I am thinking of getting a Trek DS my self. If only it came stock with fat tires to save on the upgrade, but you can't have everything.
If any one else is out there looking for a good bike I think these Trek Dual Spots are great. http://www.trekbikes.com/au/en/bikes/town/dual_sport/ds_series

Yeah I got some 29" Big Apples my self, only 2.0" wide ones though, even then I am having trouble fitting them on my Gaint Hybrid bike.
 
First, Majornelson, nice build, I hope mine comes out as nice.
This is my first build so very nervous.
You are getting great range, I am 6'3" and 225 lbs, any guess at what range I will get on the below kit and build?

Going more with a MTB build that I can ride on fire roads and climb some modest hills that have some gravel, hardpack, etc.
Just ordered the following kit from cellman.
Have not heard from him in over a week, Trying to wire him money so he can start building the kit.
I figure he is at one of the bike shows and will probably hear from him tomorrow.

Upgrade EM3ev vers. Mac , 500/1000W Pick'n'Mix Kit
- Controller Type 9 fet 30A (36-48V, IRFB3077)
- Motor Speed 255rpm loaded @36V 10T Upgrade
- Front/Rear Motor Rear
- Wheel Type 26" Alex DM24 Disc
- Throttle Type Half Twist
- Ebrakes Yes
50V 18.5Ah Samsung Triangle Pack
- Bag Including Bag
EB3 Program Cable
7sp DNP 11T Freewheel
V3 Cycle Analyst Ebike Computer, CA-DPS
Half Twist Throttle with 3 speed and cruise
Aluminium Case Charger 58.8V 5A,14S Li Ion/NCM (with Switch)
Grin Tech Rev4 Rear Torque Arm

Don't know if I need 2 torque arms or just one? Anyone have thoughts??
Going on a Giant Revel 2014 that I bought new has 7 speeds, XL frame, disc brakes, and suntour fork in front.
After I put the motor on will upgrade as needed.
Anyone want to suggest tires for this beast for mild MTB riding?
RC
 
Rogerc,

Thanks! I posted also to your PM but will duplicate here. To add to my post below, I've used the Big Apple's on fire trails and hard pack. No issues... Not certain how they would handle mud but for most other dirt/gravel/road they're great. I prefer a thumb throttle- it's a little easier to integrate into a typical brake/shifter from Shimano and others. But it just depends. Also, the grips shipped with every kit I've purchased are just plain awful... you'll want something else or your existing grips.
========================================================
Paul (cellman) will program the CA v3 if it is purchased with the kit. The three speed switch controls top speed, based on position. In position 1, with my 18.5 AH 48v triangle battery from cellman, the speed is limited to about 22 mph at full charge (position 2 is around 28 mph and 3 is no limit) and goes down a little as the battery depletes. Maybe 1 - 1.5 mph less at the end so still 20+. You get used to 20 mph pretty quickly. All of my rides are at WOT on position 1. I always get more than 40 miles, even when I've done rides in the mountains. Check out this ride (note that I forgot to start Cyclemeter until I was 5 miles or so into the ride). I finished with 25% (well maybe 20% :)) of my battery and the hills were big! But I do peddle, am in reasonably good shape and just can't help it.

http://cyclemeter.com/cf31e7e64ecfb850/ ... 6-1026?r=c

Paul makes the electronics really easy. You really can't plug the wrong thing into something as all connectors match.

Things that tripped me up:
1) Couldn't figure out what the white grease was used for. Put it on the gears.
2) I have hydraulic disc brakes. I couldn't use the ebrake levers. IMHO, if you're only using a throttle, ebrakes aren't required but are nice. If you're using PAS (pedal assist), ebrakes are a must. If you have cable brakes (disc or pads), I'd recommend the ebrakes. Easy to install.
3) The disc brakes were a complete pain. I had to shim the disc on the rear wheel (I used washers but there are better, commercial shims available from ebikes.ca and others) and then it took me forever to realize that there were adjustment screws I could loosen on the calipers, which helped align the caliper to the disc. I also had to use longer screws to mount the disc, because it was shimmed. But I love the disc brakes now but I must have wasted 3 - 4 hours figuring this out.
4) I like a stealth bike. I used an old inner tube and then later a small bag to hide the excess wires and large connectors. Tip I picked up on E-S. Mounted the controller under the rack. Painted everything flat black.
5) I bought some Techflex cable wrap (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0085C ... UTF8&psc=1) which helped to hide the cables.
6) I added Schwalbe Big Apple tires to the bikes which made a world of difference with the handling. Significantly less harsh ride and great handling/cornering.

I have the 8T but I would buy the 10T next time. Better low end torque... Lower top speed but I don't really ride it at much above 28 mph and even then Paul's estimate of 25 mph would be good enough. Finally, the lower the FET count on the controller the smaller the controller. If you want stealth, you want as small as you can get away with and still feed the engine the power required. Just my two cents...

To summarize, disc brakes add a level of complexity. Hydraulics a bit more... Everything else is just plain old assembly.

Good luck. Let me know if you have any specific questions... The forums are great too. Really like E-S.
 
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