ERT tuned ASI BAC 4000 Sur-Ron Light Bee

[skyungjae]

Hey y'all,

I'm starting a thread on my Sur-Ron Light Bee to give other SR owners and prospective owners an easier place to find my modifications, thoughts, and experiences owning this bike.

First off, I'm located in the United States. Luna is the only authorized distributor and only offered one model back when I purchased the bike in August 2018. There was no X version and still no street legal version available (with appropriate lighting and documentation to be registered with the DMV).

Freshly assembled.


Anyhow, ERT reached out to me back in December 2018 to see if I could assist in developing a plug and play ASI BAC 4000 for the SR. I was reluctant at first since I rode the bike often and didn't want to spend any time away from it, but the stars aligned and I had a business trip which would give me time to loan the bike.

When I returned from my trip, I felt like I had an all new machine.


ERT wanted me to ride it for a while to see if I ran into any issues. With the factory battery, the top speed increased from 42mph to 47mph. Acceleration was much smoother, and the bike sounded a lot better. The big game changer was the variable regen which was set up as a reverse direction throttle on the left side. Variable regen is the reason I've only had to change brake pads once on this bike over the 3000ish miles I've put on it. The regen has taken over about 90% of braking duties. It's strong enough to take me to a complete stop and even lock up the rear wheel. At this point, I pretty much only use the brakes to turn on the brake light.

I returned the bike in February 2019 to finalize the designs in the harness and mounting hardware. This gave ERT time to dabble in getting more power out of this thing. Now they offer a drop-in 72V battery as well as a plug and play 20S LiPO harness with a bluetooth BMS.

The main difference I could visually tell about the new set up was the harness went from JST type connectors to the HiGo (Bafang) style. The controller has a mounting bracket and the orientation has been flipped 180 degrees (plugs facing out on bottom instead of on top). The controller can be mounted with the wires facing inward, but it does put stress on the wires and plugs. It's recommended orange side out.

More info and videos are available here:
https://electricrt.com/sur-ron-upgrades/
https://electricrt.com/battery/


***custom 20S battery assembled from 5S 8000mAh Zippy packs***

As for my bike as a whole, it's come a long way since August 2018.



In order from most recent:

Headlights and brackets:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07484L86P
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RE4HTPY
The beam pattern is very narrow, and a switch is needed to cycle through the modes. The brackets are best mounted with the hinge on the outside. If not, the steel hinge will hit the welds on the frame when turning the bars all the way to either side. They protrude out further than the rubber fork bumpers.

Tires & tube:
Front Shinko: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PS2QQC
Rear Duro: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011J6TK1S
Tube for the rear: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CQ0ABAK
I reused the tube for the front tire. The rear has a lot of clearance. I had to re-set the bead on the front tire to get it to stop rubbing. There are square blocks along the inside of the tire which help with alignment.

Affordable replacement chain:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0022ZJ2WI

Foot pegs:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BF7S7QK
The small pins will disappear, so it's best to back them out and drop some thread locker on each.

Reflective rim tape:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VY4IWE
It's easier to just apply the tape by hand rather than try to figure out how to use the applicator.

Finned brake pads:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CZSM719
I had to clip off the fins on one side for them to fit the caliper properly.

Rear Brake lights:

https://www.amazon.com/Purishion-Universal-Flexible-Integrated-Motorcycle/dp/B01L8YZ0II
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077NCT36C
Using the existing brake sensors, I decided to re-purpose them into brake lights. These lights in particular will fry the fragile brake reed sensors, which is why I used a standard relay. There are other lights with less LEDs where the reed sensors can handle the load, but I didn't think any were bright enough.

I also have a flashing module with a g-sensor which is no longer in production. This is what they're selling now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SQEI4GO

Mirror (left side):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009R96YK

Fenders:
Front https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NBB4EWY
Rear https://www.amazon.com/Mucky-Nutz-Face-Fender-Reflective/dp/B01N0HE7FA
I had to replace the front with an old Marzocchi fender because the Shinko tires would rub on the Mucky Nutz. To install the rear, I had to make additional holes using a hot flat tip screw driver.

Other things people may have questions about. I did register this bike as a moped in California. Eco Mode on the factory SR does comply with the power and speed requirements in California; however, the bike is missing stop lights, mirror, and reflectors to be fully compliant.

For those of you California folks, here's the link for the registration: I think the fee now is $23, but you can call the DMV to verify.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/forms/reg/reg230

From the California vehicle code:
24015. (a) Motorized bicycles shall comply with those federal motor vehicle safety standards established under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 (15 U.S.C., Sec. 1381, et seq.) which are applicable to a motor-driven cycle, as that term is defined in such federal standards. Such standards include, but are not limited to, provisions requiring a headlamp, taillamp, stoplamp, side and rear reflex reflectors, and adequate brakes.
(b) In addition to equipment required in subdivision (a), all motorized bicycles operated upon a highway shall be equipped with a mirror as required in subdivision (a) of Section 26709, a horn as required in Section 27000, and an adequate muffler as required in subdivision (a) of Section 27150.

From CHP form 888:
Motorized Bicycle: Compliance with Federal Safety Standards (24015). Motorized bicycles shall comply with those federal motor vehicle safety standards established under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 which are applicable to a motor-driven cycle, as that term is defined in such federal standards. Such standards include, but are not limited to, provisions requiring a headlamp, taillamp, stoplamp, side and rear reflectors, and adequate brakes. In addition, all motorized bicycles operated upon a highway shall be equipped with a mirror, a horn, and an adequate muffler as required by the Vehicle Code.

When my SR is powered on, it defaults to low power which falls under the power and speed requirement to lawfully ride on the streets. The ASI unit has 3 different power profiles using the Assist settings through the display which is great for conserving power among potential legality issues.

Why didn't I go with an X controller or X bike? Neither were available at the time of purchase. When the X controller became available, the regen was passive and only worked in sport mode when coasting. The cost of the X controller isn't bad with the core swap, but the improvements weren't worth the time I'd be spending in my garage installing it. The later iterations of the X controller got rid of regen altogether. To me, it just makes much more sense to have variable regen that takes over for the majority of my braking.

Why didn't I buy a supermoto wheel set? I ask myself that every day. I regret not buying a set when they were on sale for $319. I'm very satisfied with my current dual sport tires, but I'll always be curious how much better the street riding would be with a legitimate set of street tires.

As for my battery set up, I don't recommend going the same path I took:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
A lot of that wiring could have been eliminated, but I wanted to keep things modular.

Well, that's it for now. I will continue to post updates and answer questions here as my SR continues to evolve.

 

[skyungjae]

Well, it's been a year (and a day) since I picked up this bike from Luna's store front down in El Segundo, California, and my bike has come a long way.



I've probably racked up between 3500 - 5000 miles. It's unfortunate that I don't know the exact numbers as I've gone through a number of different displays among other things.

Shortly after my last post, I realized that Duro HF307 3.25x19" is too big and heavy for this bike. It does clear, but I don't think it's well suited for this bike with the factory chain ring. The Shinko 241 2.75x19" is simply too wide for the front. I ran the bike with the stock CST in the front and the Shinko in the rear for a bit, and it felt so much better in terms of balance and acceleration. I bought a Vee Rubber VRM-308 2.50x19" for the front, but it came after my 17" Supermoto wheelset was delivered.


From left to right: Vee, Stock CST, Shinko 241, Duro HF307


Vee VRM-308 & Shinko 241

I haven't been able to put any miles on this set up as I haven't any dirt opportunities and use the Supermoto wheels daily. :lol:

Among this journey, I had the opportunity to try out the EggRider display along with a new plug and play harness:




This display option is pretty awesome. EggRider and ERT are still working on getting all the features in the app and display to work with 60V+, but it still usable for the most part. It is available to order with the ASI kit as well as an upgrade option for those who already have the kit. It does require a new harness.

Pros:
The speedometer is much more accurate since you can dial in the circumference of the tire.
Handlebar footprint is smaller than the LCD 750C
Bluetooth App for Android and iOS that logs rides and adjust settings (some settings)
Powers on with the turn of the key (LCD 750C needs to be manually powered on once the key is turned to the on position)

Cons:
Difficult to see in the sunlight
Battery calibration / settings only goes to 52V in app (it does display correct voltage on the display)
Speed limiting settings doesn't work as well as PFS (alternate power setting) in ASI's settings.
Odometer mileage doesn't save unless you manually power the unit down.

Among other updates, I decided to go with a cafe racer type look:


This required a new headlight/housing, eBay cafe racer seat, clip ons, etc...

The headlight is a 5.75" halo headlight from eBay. I also ordered the 5.75" housing on eBay which came with new fork mounts. I ended up using my existing mounts from my previous headlight set up (see previous post).

The cafe racer seat is the generic one that you can find on Amazon and eBay for about $30-40. I ended up cutting off the studs up front and drilling directly into the polymer base next to the existing studs for my bolts to have something sturdy to grab onto. It's been holding well, but I'll go back and reinforce things if it ever loosens up. In hindsight, it would've been better to have made adapters from thin sheet metal.

Any 36mm clip-ons will work. These are the ones I used:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072Q6Y5XH

I do have an FSA direct mount stem if I decide to run a handlebar again.

Now that my bike was becoming more street oriented, I decided it would be a good idea to revamp my lighting. This was rather difficult since my previous tail light/brake light set up was a mess.

Following other owner's (in the US) modifications, I added turn signals and replaced my two LED strips in the rear to a single one with integrated turn signals.

Parts list:
Switch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008G4YMHY
Flashing Relay (you only need one): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FDW1YT7
Amber LED strips: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BT2B3KB
LED tail light strip: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0140XMI1Q

I was originally using a bunch of Anderson connectors, but they took way too much space. I ended up using bullet connectors to save space and allow easy unplugging.

Lights and Turn Signal Demo Walk Around:
[youtube]LZZ-xYMakMY[/youtube]

Tail light flasher Demo:
[youtube]G2GkJBe8BRk[/youtube]

Modifications I wish I had done since day 1 (or sooner):

Rockshox Domain Dual Crown extra firm spring:

It's not a drop in modification, but it doesn't take much to get it work. All you need is 2 inches of 3/4 inch PVC and remove the metal bushing on the pre-load spacer for the factory spring. The photo shows a 3/4" PVC joiner which was too big, so I used 2 inches of carbon fiber handlebar. The difference was night and day. The factory spring would sometimes compress and stay compressed even when I got off the bike. I was constantly bottoming out the fork even on the street. For $35-45, getting this spring is something I wish I had done since day one. I highly recommend it for those who are sticking with the RST Killah.

Supermoto Wheelset:
Dual sport tires are great on the 19" wheels, but if more than 90% of riding is on the street it's definitely better to have a supermoto wheelset. I thought the dual sport tires were smooth. I couldn't have been more wrong, and I also wish I had purchased the bike with the extra wheelset. I ended up buying my set used, and it had a 48T chainring on it already, so I didn't have to worry about swapping out chains.

O-ring chain:
I put about 30 miles on the bike daily during the work week, and I had to adjust my chain tension and re-wax it every weekend. That routine was getting old fast, and simply taking up a lot of my time. Upon my 3rd replacement chain, I decided to pick up a generic o-ring chain off eBay for $26. This was, by far, one of the biggest upgrades to my bike. It made the bike much more quieter, the chain doesn't stretch nearly as quickly, and my efficiency has actually gone up. I actually haven't adjusted the chain since install since it hasn't stretched after my first adjustment post install. Based on everything I read, I was expecting efficiency to go down due to the extra weight and friction, but my real world experience didn't reflect that. Acceleration is much smoother and there is no chain chatter. The pros far outweigh the cons in this matter.

Conclusion:
I usually don't keep my ebikes as long as I've had the Sur Ron. Most of the time I get bored or simply want something else. Even now, I think about the convenience of being able to gas and go with a ICE bike and not have any sort of range anxiety. Then I think about how much maintenance is required as well as how complicated they are in comparison to magnets and copper wire. I suppose range anxiety has been my issue with EVs in general since my first ebike project. They're great for around town and the daily commute, but I always feel tethered due to the range limitations. I do have a 15A charger that can top off the battery in under two hours, but it's not the same as being able to gas up in a few minutes and be on my way.

The Sur Ron Light Bee is not an ebike. It's a motorcycle. No matter how much you try to pass it off as a bike, it's never going to be one. Sure, there's that afterthought pedal kit that functions, but we all know that's a loophole. There's still the issue of top speed and power to comply with local ebike laws that most people don't follow to begin with. From what I've read, it seems that Luna markets it here as a electric bicycle to not have to deal with any motor vehicle related stuff like a certificate of origin, VIN, Title, etc... as that would bring up the price of importation into the US. It would also probably raise the total cost of the bike as a result. I think it's reasonably priced, but I can see how a lot of people cringe at the price. That does bring us to the issue of street legality. I'm pretty lucky to be living in California where this thing can legitimately comply with their motorized bicycle laws, but there are a lot of states where this isn't the case. Then there's the issue with insurance because there's no VIN or Title. Though I have full coverage through esurance (an Allstate company), I don't know if they would ever pay out should something ever happen to the bike.

As for ERT, Alan is a great guy and super helpful. The problems people run into with ERT is due to him being a one man show for the most part. That means it can take a long time for him to respond to messages. The ironic thing is that any delays in shipment on anything ASI related, not just the Sur Ron kit, are usually on the ASI side. Alan has the plug and play hardware and programming ready to go, but ASI can't keep up with the demand on their controllers. It can be difficult for guys like him, and LightningRods, in the consumer market of free same day shipping and instant gratification. People forget that a lot of custom items in the EV world are made to order with long lead times and are at the mercy of the supply chain. That being said, I do encourage those who plan on ordering the ASI to reach out to ERT prior to their orders just to get an idea on where they are in the queue, how long it may take, and what features they want.


Well, I think it's about time to close the chapter on this bike. :thumb:

 

[fechter]

Wow, that’s looking great. I had a chance to ride one with the ASI controller and it really moves. The stock pack can’t put out enough amps to use it to its full potential.

 

[skyungjae]

As much as I enjoyed the power of the LiPOs, I wanted something a bit more clean, more range, and easily removable. The only option for someone at my skill level was to purchase a built pack. That being said, I reached out to Lite Speed Bikes to see if they could make me something.

They had already been offering OEM pack reconfiguration service, but I didn't have a pack to spare. After a few messages back and forth, it seemed like a custom case was the best option which is now available here:

https://litespeedbikes.mybigcommerce.com/72v-30ah-for-surron/

Battery Lid Open:

Much less wire clutter. OSE8 anti spark connector with an adapter for those who plan on ditching the breaker (or not using it).

Battery Lid Closed:

No more smashing wires.


The bike looks much cleaner overall.


Having a Bluetooth BMS to monitor the cells and temp is also very nice. I like to wait for the pack to drop under 37C before charging, and I wouldn't be able to do that without the temp sensors on the BT BMS.

This is one of those things I should have done from the get go. Unfortunately, it wasn't available last year when I began traveling down the ASI rabbit hole.

The Pros simply outweigh the Cons when it comes to an 18650 pack vs my old LiPO set up. The most difficult thing I gave up with the LiPO pack was the ability to remove the back easily and charge indoors. 24Ah to 30Ah alleviates some range anxiety, but not as much as being able to take the battery out of the bike and charge it anywhere indoors and silently with a Grin Satiator. I did not lose anything performance wise either. Though the voltage behaves differently, with the conservative tuning at 175A, the performance is on par with my previous LiPO set up.

 

[fechter]

Nice battery.

I have been using the stock breaker and with 150A controller I have not had it trip yet even though it is marked 100A.

 

[Merlin]

the problem is that this guy thinks he can out take physics.

600$ samsung cells and a 100$ bms.....advertise with 200/300a
refused to accept that these cells are 15A rated.

20s10p is very poor if you have an upgraded controller like asi or nuc.
if you squeeze 200a of it, voltage will sag down 3v each cell right from the start.

he also bypassed useless the discharge from the bms. any security feature is gone. BT app is just to see cells.
charging while unattend can do things worse.The BMS from "james" doing easy 200 peak or even 250 peak. theres no reason to bypass it.

pic of his website battery with puzzled nickle strips doesnt look that state of the art either.
selling 2a chargers from ali that you can buy for 12$ selling for 75$ with a litespeed sticker on it.

it will work but not as long as you expected from a 1500$ invest.

sry....recommend is something other.

 

[Flykrisco]

Anybody know what BMS app he is running. I have the SI 4000 and the light speed battery but all I could find was the Liontron app

 

[Merlin]

You spend thousands of dollars for it and ask here for the app?
How about asking the seller? ^^

 

[Flykrisco]

You spend thousands of dollars for it and ask here for the app?
How about asking the seller? ^^

Wow, thanks for the great info. Why didnt I think of that?
I called Chris and emailed him this morning to no response as of yet.
I just thought I would ask here for a quick response.
I am a new member and I just want to thank you for the warm welcome.
I got the info I needed and I'm up and running.

 

[Merlin]

youre allready a year member here...active when you need something

even now, up and running, no report back what app you got. for me: its not how a forum work :wink:

 

[sens_dep]

You spend thousands of dollars for it and ask here for the app?
How about asking the seller? ^^

Wow, thanks for the great info. Why didnt I think of that?
I called Chris and emailed him this morning to no response as of yet.
I just thought I would ask here for a quick response.
I am a new member and I just want to thank you for the warm welcome.
I got the info I needed and I'm up and running.

Anyone have contact with this guy? I placed my damn order almost 2 months ago, radio silence on their end. Called, emailed, all of it. Nothing. Pretty lame.

 

[Merlin]

if you mean ERT, that sounds normal with ERT.

cancel it, get a nucular. same features, same power, half price, damn good quality

 

[BCTECH]

reminds me of adaptto, the only support you get is 206 pages in here created by helpful owners.
This one is still long way to go and owners seem not active on sharing any info
nuclear is very supportive, you get your answer within 1 or 2 days max from the owner or users :thumb:

 

[Flykrisco]

You spend thousands of dollars for it and ask here for the app?
How about asking the seller? ^^

Wow, thanks for the great info. Why didnt I think of that?
I called Chris and emailed him this morning to no response as of yet.
I just thought I would ask here for a quick response.
I am a new member and I just want to thank you for the warm welcome.
I got the info I needed and I'm up and running.

Anyone have contact with this guy? I placed my damn order almost 2 months ago, radio silence on their end. Called, emailed, all of it. Nothing. Pretty lame.

I think he is having a hard time keeping items in stock. It took me a while to get my controller also. Trust me it is worth the wait. I have aluminum mounts for the controller if you dont like the 3d printed mount. The best way I've got a hold of him is by the telephone number listed on the web page.

 

[Flykrisco]

I found the app for the xioxiang bms in the archives here. Here is some pics of the mount I made and the overall install.

 

[skyungjae]

Anybody know what BMS app he is running. I have the SI 4000 and the light speed battery but all I could find was the Liontron app

Xiaxiang BMS :thumb:

 

[skyungjae]

2 years and still running strong.

[youtube]ge6g2wB45ng[/youtube]

 

[fechter]

Nice. Thanks for posting.

What speedometer is that?

 

[skyungjae]

Nice. Thanks for posting.

What speedometer is that?

https://www.amazon.com/BLUERICE-Backlight-Universal-Speedometer-Indicators/dp/B07PFCT2PH