EZip Trailz LS - 2013

[LeftieBiker]

I've been searching to see what size spoke wrench to order, and all I see see is spoke gauges and diameters. Whats size or sizes are the nipples on my 2013 Trailz?...?

3.5mm - .136" for the eZip Trailz 2013 ... red.
I got the assortment for about $10.

Thanks! The front wheel is a bit 'wobbly' and I want to fix that.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Does anyone have any idea of how well the 9.4AH RMB lithium pack for the E/IZIP bikes is working out? I want to get one, but the reviews for the smaller 6AH pack were mixed, and I don't want to spend $450 on an Iffy piece of tech. It has a built-in BMS at least, but I want to get at least the three years it's guaranteed for out of it, with no problems if possible. I'd also be very open to the idea of paying someone to build me a pack for my Trailz, either the same AH for less, or more AH for the same price. I'd want it in a case that the battery rack could hold, if possible. Anyone interested?

 

[DrkAngel]

Does anyone have any idea of how well the 9.4AH RMB lithium pack for the E/IZIP bikes is working out?

I've only run into 1 user of the 9.4AH RMB pack.
His review does not sound too promising!
Of course, happy users tend to not write as much.
See - Battery Life

 

[LeftieBiker]

Does anyone have any idea of how well the 9.4AH RMB lithium pack for the E/IZIP bikes is working out?

I've only run into 1 user of the 9.4AH RMB pack.
His review does not sound too promising!
Of course, happy users tend to not write as much.
See - Battery Life

Do you know that that is the 9.4AH battery pack? I've seen negative reviews of the 6.4AH, and that post doesn't identify which one he's using...

 

[DrkAngel]

Do you know that that is the 9.4AH battery pack? I've seen negative reviews of the 6.4AH, and that post doesn't identify which one he's using...

eCossack[/url]"]The battery is advertized at 500 cycles but is listed as the LONG RANGE 9.6Ah battery as opposed to the cheaper (and weaker) lithium.

When I first used the battery it melted the contacts on the bike and eventually its own contacts. It gets very hot and part of the case shows warping from heat. has anybody else had this problem?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Do you know that that is the 9.4AH battery pack? I've seen negative reviews of the 6.4AH, and that post doesn't identify which one he's using...

eCossack[/url]"]The battery is advertized at 500 cycles but is listed as the LONG RANGE 9.6Ah battery as opposed to the cheaper (and weaker) lithium.

When I first used the battery it melted the contacts on the bike and eventually its own contacts. It gets very hot and part of the case shows warping from heat. has anybody else had this problem?

Stupid me: I didn't think to keep reading in the thread. It seems that the guy may have a problem with his bike that is causing either high loads or high resistance at the connection. So it is the 9.4AH pack but it may not be at fault. Still, with no positive reviews... I'm also looking into getting a Ping battery pack and charger, or one from EV Assemble, putting it on top if it won't fit in the side case slot, and leaving the battery rack in place, and using the battery selector switch wired to one of the existing pack connectors, and to the new pack, so I can still use my SLA pack (which seems so far to be a good one) if needed.

So which pack builder is better, Ping or Ev assemble? Or is there a third, better choice?

 

[DrkAngel]

"500 cycles" of a pitiful 9.6AH pack for $450+ seems a flagrant waste of money ... IF it even holds up that well.
I know I could never be happy with a pack like that.

I've been re-building eZip-iZip RMB packs, using various methods, for years, and posted the results.
25.9V @ 26 - 31Ah!
Built using recycled cells.
Cost? ... Less than $200, including iMax B8 balancing charger. (iMax B8 will balance at 4.20V or 4.10V, 4.10V recommended for max lifespan-durability)
Quality? ... Dependent on quality and care in selecting donor cells.
Longevity? ...
1. 18650 build 4 years, 4000+ miles, with monitoring and occasional tune-ups, (repaired cracked solder joints, replaced couple bad cells)
2. Laptop LiPo 2+ riding seasons, 3000+ miles, built with "fair", not matched cells, (1 weak bank repaired by tacking on extra cell)
(Stringent cell selection methods should greatly extend "maintenance free operation" several methods discussed)

See - Homemade Battery Packs Large thread! Will add index to #1 post!
Several methods are explained including Instructions designed for the DIY'er.
I, personally do not build for others ... unless local.
Monitoring and maintenance are highly suggested-required!
Have any handy friends? Let them evaluate the build instructions!

Even the best BMS can only moderate "minor" problems.
All packs are maintenance free ... until they have a problem, if you build your own you can fix your own, you won't have to spend months and $$$ sending to China for repair-replacement.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I saw your topic on building - I can't do that, I'm afraid. So I have to find a builder. I'm relatively local, but I assume you mean close enough to visit, so that leaves me asking, again, which pack builder offers the best products?

 

[SamTexas]

Even the best BMS can only moderate "minor" problems.
All packs are maintenance free ... until they have a problem, if you build your own you can fix your own, you won't have to spend months and $$$ sending to China for repair-replacement.

...or listen to idiots begging/coaxing/bullying you into opening up the charger to change a few resistors each time the BMS misbehaves.

Quote of the year!

BUT don't expect people to listen. Most of them are more impressed with "sophisticated" circuitry even when it does more harm than good.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Ok, let me put this another way. I'm almost certainly going to buy a pre-built pack from Ping Battery. Mr. Ping has been very helpful over email, and seems to have an excellent reputation. My plan is to get the 15AH pack, pre-shaped for an EZIP battery case, if I can find a second battery case. If not, I'll get the 20AH pack and carry it on the top of the rack in a bag or lockbox, with the wiring going to one side of the OEM pack selector switch. That way I'll still be able to use my SLA pack if needed. Opinions? Obviously the 20AH pack would give me more range, but I'd like to be able to lock it to the bike, and that doesn't look easy without making it ugly as well. The battery rack option has the advantage of having a locking system, and it would leave the top of the rack free for a top bag...

 

[LeftieBiker]

Where are all the EZIP folks? Anyway, yesterday I tried for range, and took my longest ride yet. I would have done this sooner, but Winter is hanging on well into Spring here in Upstate NY (USA), and I've got poor circulation. So with a temp of about 56F and a North breeze that ranged from "negligible" to "windy" I rode one of the country routes I take with my electric scooters. I was trying for range from the beginning, but once I knew I'd make it home easily I used a bit more power for the last mile or so to get home faster.

Anyway, I've found that while PAS mode is great for climbing grades and hills with minimal effort, it uses too much power for 90% of them, and is too fast. I don't enjoy having to pedal about two revolutions with no assist when starting off, and then have the bike lurch away at about 50% power. So I decided to use TAG mode and apply only as much assist as I needed, and only when I needed it. That means about 20% power on all but the steepest hills. This worked well, except for tiring my right hand. The route is paved country roads, with about seven steep hills to climb, one or two long downhill runs, and not a lot of completely level road. Even so I was able to pedal with no assist about 25% of the time, and with more than 20% assist only about 5% of the time. I never went above 50%. I spent most of my time in 2nd and 3rd gears, with brief excursions into the upper gears on the long downhills, and using 1st on all of the steep hills. I tried for no Red battery light at all, and managed just flickers of it on the steepest hills. The rest of the time I was seeing only Green and Yellow. When I got home the battery indicator was still Green at rest, and still Green under minimal assist. I did use PAS mode for part of that last mile.

So, what is my range? I weigh about 175lbs with my Winter riding gear on. The route is approximately 13.5 miles as I rode it (I usually do a little extra riding on the scooters but didn't this time), and after putting the pack on the charger, it went Green after approximately 3 hours, which should mean it took about 6 amp-hours to get it back to 90% (?) of charge. Going by that I estimate that I could have ridden 10% farther without dangerously depleting the pack, so actual trip range was about 13.5 miles, and estimated range for me, on that route, is about 14.75 miles of gentle riding. I hope this info will be useful for prospective and existing EZIP Trailz riders.

NOTE: I first used the "PRE" HTML button to preserve my indents, and the damned board ate 75% of my post! It took me 10 minutes to recover the whole draft and replace it again. Damn.

 

[lbz5mc12]

I don't know if you're interested but I've got the battery from my skyline that I'm no longer in need of. I just had a local guy give it a once over, he discharged, balance charged it and fixed the charge connection which was semi-loose. It's a 24V 10A lithium ion. Like you mentioned in your post, you would have to mount it on top of the carrier. It has about six months of use on it. It of course comes with the charger. I'm just not sure what carrier I could use to ship it. I know DHL does but they're kind of expensive.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't know if you're interested but I've got the battery from my skyline that I'm no longer in need of. I just had a local guy give it a once over, he discharged, balance charged it and fixed the charge connection which was semi-loose. It's a 24V 10A lithium ion. Like you mentioned in your post, you would have to mount it on top of the carrier. It has about six months of use on it. It of course comes with the charger. I'm just not sure what carrier I could use to ship it. I know DHL does but they're kind of expensive.

Thanks, but I can have a much higher capacity pack built for what the EZIP packs cost. I can also get a 15AH pack for an EZIP case, if I can find one. You need to target other Skyline owners who want a slide-in replacement. If you post it in the For Sale section here, it should sell fast if the price is reasonable. Thanks for the offer, though.

 

[lbz5mc12]

Yeah I know but I thought I'd offer. I was thinking $175.00 plus shipping seeing as how it's $399.00 brand new.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Yeah I know but I thought I'd offer. I was thinking $175.00 plus shipping seeing as how it's $399.00 brand new.

That's much cheaper than the EZIP version. You should have no trouble selling it.

 

[lbz5mc12]

Yeah I don't know why they charge so much for their batteries, there's nothing really special about them. They must be profiting huge on them.

 

[chessir]

Yeah I don't know why they charge so much for their batteries, there's nothing really special about them. They must be profiting huge on them.

K2 energy supplies the cells and their prices are way too high IMO.

 

[dumbass]

Leftierider, most of the EZip chargers are only 1.5a so you would be closer to 4,5ah used which is a good this if you were running on the SLA pack. Those 10ah packs should only be drained to about 50% max assuming you want them to last out the year. As for anyone's actual range that always depends on how you ride and under what conditions. I've stated it before I run a single 24v 450w Currie motor with a 50a 48v controller. My max amp draw so far has been 31a at about 50v. But this is not a standard EZip setup. It's a mid-drive that drives a Nuvinci. Hub. And yes you have to be careful not to overheat the motor. But for the most part I can run the butt of it. BTW, I run a set of 4+ year old Thunder Sky lifepo4 packs. TS packs are not great to start with and these are getting tired. I've only run at the 48v for about 600 miles so far but with no problems. But I use a temp probe to monitor motor heat.

The stock EZip is butt heavy to start with. So when you mount a pack (even a lighter one) atop the rack you make it worse and handling is for c- ap. As for locking the pack to the bike...your kidding right? Do you really think that lock will stop a10 year old kid from pulling the pack off the bike? That lock is to reduce the bouncing and that's about all it does.

Bob

Edit: one of the big problems with the pack setup is the contact pins. Everyone just drops the pack in and assumes the pins are moving up and down freely. BIG mistake the is causing a lot of problems that get blamed on everything from the pack to the controller and throttle. You need to verify they are free moving or correct the problem. And while your at it open up the controller box and find the pas connector and disconnect it that joke once and for all.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Actually, the PAS on my bike works fine. Either you are expecting something unrealistic from yours or you have a defective bike. My only criticism of the PAS is it comes on a bit late and a bit too hard. I don't usually use it to start off but I use it quite a bit on climbs, so I don't have to hold the throttle open. I'll probably use it more often when I get the 20AH pack from Ping. I have yet to encounter a hill that needs more power than PAS provides, along with my pedaling, to conquer...

As for mounting the pack on top of the rack, I figure 8lbs on top isn't perfect, but it should feel no worse than 18lbs on one side of the bike!

I was going to post here anyway, to ask this: what's the best pannier set for the Trailz? At a minimum I want one that has a wide enough center gap to fit over the whole rack, with one SLA pack in. Ideally, I'd like for it to hide both the pack (when I use it) and the motor if possible. Bikesmiths on Ebay has a nice-looking one on sale on Ebay (and it looks wide enough) but it isn't tall. Some Chinese maker called "Merida" has a really tall, full set that should hide the motor, but it ships from China and I have no idea of the quality. I'd like to keep my US-made Axiom Appalachian set, but the center gap just isn't wide enough.

As for locking, I'm probably going to have to rely on a motion-detector alarm to stop the pack and bags from getting stolen. The OEM lock is a damned bit better than nothing, though!

 

[lbz5mc12]

You should get one of those high pitched alarms with the pull out pin. They try to lift the the battery, the pin comes out of the alarm and presto they're deaf and everyone's staring at them.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You should get one of those high pitched alarms with the pull out pin. They try to lift the the battery, the pin comes out of the alarm and presto they're deaf and everyone's staring at them.

Not a bad idea, although maybe it's even better if the alarm sounds when they move the bike at all. Do you have a link for that 'grenade alarm'? And I really want to order the panniers ASAP...

 

[dumbass]

No my Pas worked just fine on all 5 of my Currie setups. I just don't see a value for something that is little more then a duplication of what I can do myself with far better accuracy. If your peddling up hill and you need more a power you turn the throttle. It's not like if you get tired the Pas jumps in to save the day and adds the extra power to pull you up that hill.

My problem has always been exactly what you said....you always feel like you are peddling to catchup to the Pas setting because its always just a little to fast and it's non-adjustable. Of course there's those times when you pushed it in error and it take off on you union tended. To each their own...you find a value in the Pas so enjoy it. But I try to limit my rides to around 30 miles each and only once or twice a week so i guess my hand can handle the stress. I admit I would like to change hands from time to time. Or better yet just install a cruse control and wire into the brake controls.

Have you noticed the bike handles better when the 16 pounds of lead are on your right side then when on your left side? It's because on the right side the pack is balancing the weight of the motor. On the left side it's adding to it. So when you top mount your pack you loose this balance plus add to the top heavy feel from your own weight. Just a thought....When I ride with my wife I pull a doggie trailer with our 35# dog in it. I then strapped a bag to the rack. Talk about a lead sled! I stripped the EZip the following year and setup my mid-drive. Motor and twin lifepo4 packs mounted mid-frame at48v. Works great and building another one this summer. May even put the EZip back on the road again.

Bob

 

[LeftieBiker]

I have repetitive stress injuries to my hands, so the PAS really helps. Most automated function duplicate actions you can perform yourself - that's no reason to deride them. The PAS serves a useful function, even if it could be more adjustable. Someone should post how to add a simple dial pot to adjust the PAS level...

As for the balance, look at it another way: I've lost ten pounds so far riding the bike, and it was all at or above the level of the rear rack top. So adding 8lbs to that rack top does nothing more than put me back to where the balance was a week after I go the bike - but with no SLA pack adding another 10lbs. If I lose another 8lbs from my waist, there goes the whole weight of the Ping pack!

Oh, and I just bought the pannier set sold by Bikesmiths. Looks good, it certainly appears to have a very wide space between the bags (he also sells eBikes) and while it won't hide the motor, I'm not sure anything would. It's also roomy. The ironic thing is I actually got the exact same set for free with the Prodeco bike I bought, but I sent it back, unopened, with the bike. I sure wish I'd kept it now!

 

[dumbass]

I have repetitive stress injuries to my hands, so the PAS really helps. Most automated function duplicate actions you can perform yourself - that's no reason to deride them. The PAS serves a useful function, even if it could be more adjustable. Someone should post how to add a simple dial pot to adjust the PAS level...

As for the balance, look at it another way: I've lost ten pounds so far riding the bike, and it was all at or above the level of the rear rack top. So adding 8lbs to that rack top does nothing more than put me back to where the balance was a week after I go the bike - but with no SLA pack adding another 10lbs. If I lose another 8lbs from my waist, there goes the whole weight of the Ping pack!

Oh, and I just bought the pannier set sold by Bikesmiths. Looks good, it certainly appears to have a very wide space between the bags (he also sells eBikes) and while it won't hide the motor, I'm not sure anything would. It's also roomy. The ironic thing is I actually got the exact same set for free with the Prodeco bike I bought, but I sent it back, unopened, with the bike. I sure wish I'd kept it now!

Certainly everyone's hand get tired constantly holding the throttle especially one wit a tight spring. And having any type of hand injury must be more difficult. While I talk against the Pas system I am not a true anti-Pas person. I think it has its place in life. But generally speaking it cost the same to make something (anything) right as it does to make it .... Well wrong. I believe you yourself pointed out a few of the flaws. Flaws I'm sure they could have corrected by this time. Lets face it this is not Curries first year building electric bikes. Yes, it would be great if someone took the time to creat a mod for adjusting the Pas system. But I'm guessing its quite low on most priority lists (certainly mine).

Glad to hear your getting in better shape. By the way you describe your pannier it's a hangover type not a sit on top type. If so you are basically very close to the same as original. Correct? Not to be picky.....but dead weight is not the same as live weight. Ask anyone in horse racing. A jockey would rather be right on weight so he doesn't have to have dead weight added to the saddle as required so all horses are carrying the same weight. I know I'm being picky...

Bob

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't mind a little recreational arguing. True enough about dead vs live weight (although on bad days I sometimes wonder which category I fall into) but it's still more important to have a 170lb rider and a top-mounted battery pack than it would be to have a 220lb rider and a side-mounted one. Which also, I'm guessing, answers the question "Why haven't they fixed the PAS mode?" They have it calibrated to get 200+lb people up hills, and the result is that lighter riders get a little extra, er, thrill from it. What they should do is sell an inexpensive kit to make it adjustable.

I mounted the CatEye bike computer yesterday. I couldn't test it because it was raining out, but this will be my first bike ever, in over 45 years of riding, with a speedometer...