Falco e-Motors

[FalcoeMotors]

Dear all!

I have not been on this forum for a long time. I was able to catch up for some of the posts. I appreciate all the comments (good and bad).

Here is a brief update.

We had the most extraordinary last year and this year continues to be strong. Kickstarter campaign brought us worldwide fame which we did not expect.

Our team in India has doubled and US team has grown substantially with several new hires. Our focus continues to be on extensive quality assurance. We continue to make great advances in the technology (many exciting products coming soon - example dedicated fat bike conversion systems for drop-outs upto 190mm). Our journey to provide world class products continues.

Regarding some of the missing players from our line up, We had made the decision last year to stream line some of our partners. Why? We needed to clean up the non-performers who failed the Falco standards of support and service.

In the US, We spent about 18 months (from June 2013 to Dec 2015) talking to end users and dealers and listening how the conversion really works. There was a great deal we learnt. US allowed us to get close to the customer. That was not happening especially in the UK.

Here is what we realized.

1. Falco customers are very special and they need to be treated accordingly. We want to continue to provide White Glove service to our customers. Those who can not deliver must go.
2. We are unveiling extensive training programs for our dealers. And We are selective to add the dealers. Our inventory build up continues to provide faster shipments and service. We also be offering EXTENSIVE DEALER CERTIFICATION PROGRAM at INTERBIKE 2015 (Look us up during Demo Days and in the Halls)
3. We will also be unveiling custom ebike builds in our McLean office for our customers Like this one here:https://scontent-1.2914.fna.fbcdn.n...=bbb8aa29195d26944066ccc21790c523&oe=55DF51A6 .
4. We wish to deal with dealers who EXCLUSIVELY do Conversions and are keen on learning the nuances and integration of two sciences - bicycling and eMotors.

Falco has a strong foundation. We have achieved great milestones in operational installed base, production capacity, supply chain maturity and quality assurance. The one thing we learnt from TidalForce and E+ experience was to be slow and steady. Slow and steady wins the race.

WE CONTINUE TO BE THE ONLY COMPANY TO OFFER 5 YEAR WARRANTY IN THE INDUSTRY! And I hope someday we can offer LIFETIME warranty. That day is not far.

Feel free to shoot us an email with your questions or comments at info@falcoemotors.com or call us toll free at +1 877 278 6323 (US and Canada)

Thank you for your great contribution to this forum!

Rakesh

 

[Mark H]

Hmmm

 

[slacker]

Falco customers are very special and they need to be treated accordingly. Just be careful as there are rabid dogs on this forum and they bite.

 

[Ottodog]

Good to hear from you Rakesh! The new firmware we loaded up yesterday is working well and the 48V battery really makes the 500 watt motor sing. Thanks again for all the help. It's nice to see you posting here again.

 

[arkmundi]

Dear all!...
WE CONTINUE TO BE THE ONLY COMPANY TO OFFER 5 YEAR WARRANTY IN THE INDUSTRY! And I hope someday we can offer LIFETIME warranty. That day is not far.

Feel free to shoot us an email with your questions or comments at info@falcoemotors.com or call us toll free at +1 877 278 6323 (US and Canada)

Thank you for your great contribution to this forum!

Rakesh

Thanks for the invitation for comment. A close reading of this thread would alert you to the need for...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49849&start=400#p1039392

Unique 5-phase motor architecture (tremendously reliable, efficient, powerful and torquey as compared to antiquated 3-phase motor technology)

We here on the endless-sphere forum await independent technical evaluation of the claim. The trusted source for that evaluation is the Grin Tech lab, that accepts motors for inclusion it its industry renowned simulator.

 

[FalcoeMotors]

Grin tech has been sent one of the Falco Hxm 2.0 motors last year. We can send 3.0 and 4.0 as well. Do you happen to have data on Bionx and Bosch?

 

[FalcoeMotors]

Good to hear from you Rakesh! The new firmware we loaded up yesterday is working well and the 48V battery really makes the 500 watt motor sing. Thanks again for all the help. It's nice to see you posting here again.

Thank You! Encouragement is always greatly appreciated!

 

[arkmundi]

Grin tech has been sent one of the Falco Hxm 2.0 motors last year. We can send 3.0 and 4.0 as well. Do you happen to have data on Bionx and Bosch?

Its not listed in the http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html. You need to follow-up on that. The evaluation dataset needs to be entered and the motor listed, so it can be compared to other motors in the listing. Thanks.

 

[mlb2109]

I am into my 2nd week riding my Catrike Expedition with the HX500 built into a 24" rear wheel.
I'm loving it. Did 10 'hard' quick miles tonight at sunset with boost at 3 most of the ride and 5 for the last couple.
Motor never seemed to reduce power for heat in this shorter but more intensive use ride. Surprised me.

one thing is very apparent for any "kit" like this, and that is there are going to be tons of variables in bikes, in setup, in installation, and in user competence in using the motor and gears appropriately to get the most out of it.

I'm very happy with mine to date. 8)

 

[Ottodog]

I'm really liking mine now too. Ran it on Level 2 for most of my ride today and had a ton of battery left at the end. No heat problems at all. I did notice that some of my spokes were a bit loose so I had to work on that a little today, but that's pretty standard for Hub Motors. I don't own anything to compare it to (yet) but it sure seems to have a lot of power for a 500 watt motor.

I had it up to 40 mph today and the fastest e-bike I've test ridden to date topped out at about 30. I hope Falco and Grin figure what happened to that motor he sent over. I'd love to see the results. I'll bet my hat these motors are under rated.

 

[Punx0r]

Unfortunately, unless a rim has been bent by an impact, loose spokes are simply the result of a badly-built wheel.

 

[Ottodog]

Unfortunately, unless a rim has been bent by an impact, loose spokes are simply the result of a badly-built wheel.

My wheel's not straight either. It's got several little wobbles in it. I was thinking of taking it in to a bike shop and having it trued. Once they get it trued, you never have to worry about tightening the spokes again? They stay tight as they would on a normal wheel?

I guess I had the impression that the Hub Motors cause the spokes to get loose and that occasionally you'll need to tighten them. Not true?

 

[Punx0r]

Hub motor wheels are less tolerant of poor build due to the shorter spokes and greater weight compared to a non-motor wheel. If the basic components are good (mainly spoke thickness and quality) then truing may give you a reliable wheel. Unfortunately, many hubmotor wheels are just all wrong

 

[Ottodog]

Hub motor wheels are less tolerant of poor build due to the shorter spokes and greater weight compared to a non-motor wheel. If the basic components are good (mainly spoke thickness and quality) then truing may give you a reliable wheel. Unfortunately, many hubmotor wheels are just all wrong

They are 14 ga. spokes but they are thicker at the base where they connect to the Hub. Probably closer to 12 ga. there. I think the quality is probably okay. Falco stuff is pretty top notch. Their problem is with their quality assurance. I've had way too many problems with this setup that I don't think many people would have had the knowledge or patience to deal with. I commend them on their customer service trying to get it all working, but there's room for much improvement there.

I'm gonna wait until my new bike is completed and see what my options are with Falco at that time. At this point, I think I'd rather pay to have the Rim trued at a local bike shop than pay to ship the wheel back to Falco and be without the wheel for that long.

 

[Punx0r]

Sounds like a good plan. Spokes that 14ga in the middle and 12ga at the hub are a good sign - most people recommend these when building a wheel "properly".

 

[mlb2109]

I think what is "normal" for normal bikes and wheels is not necessarily applicable to this situation. But even then spokes loosen and bend when the wheel flexes enough or hits something hard. it happens. Nothing to do with the wheel build quality.
You're going faster with a much heavier wheel hitting things now. Get used to checking and maintaining your drive wheel. :lol:

 

[Ottodog]

Hi guys. Thought I'd post an update on my Falco e-bike. Have made quite a few changes since the last pic.

Upgraded the battery to a 48V system and replaced the Freewheel with an 11 tooth to get a higher top speed. Put on some e-bike rated Schwalbe Tires front and rear, repacked all the bearings and replaced my Clipless pedals with Shimano platform pedals. Also kind of cleaned up the wiring a little using some "Lizard Skin" that I cut up to wrap the wires so there are a lot less tie wraps on it now... Falco and I installed a brand new firmware program that allows it to cruise without interruption at speeds above 25 mph. She now has a cruising speed of 35 mph and has a top speed of 40+.

 

[d8veh]

Hmmm......... that must be one helluva battery, Otto. How much current can it give? What cells are in it? Normally, for 30 mph, you need about 30A at 48v and maybe 35A for cruising at 35 mph. The most I've seen those batteries rated at is 20A continuous, which would give maybe 800w of output piwer from the motor. A road bike with drop bars would be able to reach 30 mph with that sort of power.

 

[Ottodog]

Hmmm......... that must be one helluva battery, Otto. How much current can it give? What cells are in it? Normally, for 30 mph, you need about 30A at 48v and maybe 35A for cruising at 35 mph. The most I've seen those batteries rated at is 20A continuous, which would give maybe 800w of output piwer from the motor. A road bike with drop bars would be able to reach 30 mph with that sort of power.

Hi d8veh. These have a maximum discharge rate of 35 Amp continuous and can do bursts of 40 and 45 Amp. I don't have many of the other finer details unfortunately, but I can tell you that they DO use 35A controllers, and the batteries are (I think) Panasonic, but beyond that, I don't have much info. The Cycle computer they use is pretty basic. Just shows MPH and Volts and that's about it. It starts out full charge at 53V and so far I haven't depleted it fully but I'm told it goes down to about 38V.

Falco said in another post that they gave TWO motors to Grin for testing and nothing ever came of it. All I can tell you is they are fast as hell. I've been over 40 mph on it several times and I've seen other 500 watt Falco owners here and elsewhere who have done the same. Personally, I suspect the motors are slightly underrated to make them road legal, or perhaps they use high speed windings at the expense of torque. Have no idea. I'd really love to see the results of those tests.

UPDATE: Found some more specs on their Website. Looks like continuous discharge is 20 Amp standard, 35 Amp maximum, with burst peaks at 40 and 45 Amp respectively.

48V, 11.6Ah 556Wh Downtube Bottle Mount Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) Open System Battery Pack

The pack merely weighs 3.3 kg (7.2 lbs.) and it delivers 556Wh of energy (48V, 11.6Ah). The pack has a number of primary as well as secondary protections. The packs use Lithium Ion Rechargeable battery cells from Panasonic. Typical cell capacity is 2880mAh and minimum cell capacity is 2730mAh. The packs uses 13S4p configuration. Operating temperature of the pack is 0 - 45°C (Standard Charge) or 10 - 45°C (Quick Charge). Packs can be used from -20 - 60°C (Standard Discharge). Storage temperatures are -20 - 50°C (1 week), -20 - 45°C (1 month), -20 - 40°C (6 months), -20 - 35°C (1 year). Accessories included with the packs are: adaptor, power chord and locking keys.

Rated voltage is 48V. Maxiumum charge voltage is 53.5V. Typical capacity is 9.52Ah, minimum capacity is 8.92Ah. Standard charge current is 1.35A and maximum charge current is 2.2A. Standard discharge current is 20A and maximum continuous discharge current is 35A. Maximum pulse discharge current is 45A for 5 seconds and 40A for 10 seconds. Overcharge Protection is activated at 4.30± 0.025V/cell. 2nd-Level Overcharge Protection is 4.45± 0.025V/cell. Over Discharge Protection is 2.50± 0.025V/cell. Over Current Protection is activated at 50A ± 5A. Short Circuit Current Protection is provided between Out+ /Out- terminals. Temperature Protection is activated at 70°C where charging & discharging are disabled. With a temperature 50°C, charging is disabled. Cell Balancing is activated at 4.18V Balancing Action.

ETA: You really need to get over your little pissing match with Falco d8veh. Times change, people change. Being right doesn't always make you happy. Let it goooooo..... you'll feel better.

 

[Triketech]

Falco still has my intrigue but I also remain skeptical. My application is more to help up hills while my legs provide about 150 watts of power and that's on 3 wheels.

Further it would require that I have a freehub adapter fabricated so I can run the gear ratios I choose.

And no one has yet been able to identify what hardware needs to be changed in order to get the off-road speeds. Just paying an extra C-note & change for a firmware upgrade isn't something I am willing to do.

 

[Ottodog]

Falco still has my intrigue but I also remain skeptical. My application is more to help up hills while my legs provide about 150 watts of power and that's on 3 wheels.

Further it would require that I have a freehub adapter fabricated so I can run the gear ratios I choose.

And no one has yet been able to identify what hardware needs to be changed in order to get the off-road speeds. Just paying an extra C-note & change for a firmware upgrade isn't something I am willing to do.

I can tell you from personal experience that there is no hardware change needed to get off road speeds. It is strictly a firmware thing. I didn't change anything else when they changed mine from on road to off road. They did have to send me a special cable and I had to install Windows on my Mac to get it to work, but they did it. And yeah, I think it's a dumb thing to charge extra for too. They'd be better off to just raise their price by 100 bucks and make it a free upgrade to anyone who wants it.

 

[Triketech]

I can tell you from personal experience that there is no hardware change needed to get off road speeds. It is strictly a firmware thing. I didn't change anything else when they changed mine from on road to off road. They did have to send me a special cable and I had to install Windows on my Mac to get it to work, but they did it. And yeah, I think it's a dumb thing to charge extra for too. They'd be better off to just raise their price by 100 bucks and make it a free upgrade to anyone who wants it.

Did you upgrade it to off-road by configuring it with the cable or did you have to send it out to be updated?

How about climbing; you're in Santa Clara I assume, and there are hills there....any input on how climbing affects thermal cutback?

 

[Ottodog]

I can tell you from personal experience that there is no hardware change needed to get off road speeds. It is strictly a firmware thing. I didn't change anything else when they changed mine from on road to off road. They did have to send me a special cable and I had to install Windows on my Mac to get it to work, but they did it. And yeah, I think it's a dumb thing to charge extra for too. They'd be better off to just raise their price by 100 bucks and make it a free upgrade to anyone who wants it.

Did you upgrade it to off-road by configuring it with the cable or did you have to send it out to be updated?

How about climbing; you're in Santa Clara I assume, and there are hills there....any input on how climbing affects thermal cutback?

I was able to upgrade the firmware with the cable at home. Cameron over at Falco basically took over control of my PC with Team Viewer and installed the firmware from his end. All I had to do was plug the cable into the motor.

As for climbing, I can tell you the 48V battery is a lot better in terms of thermal management. I have not yet seen the 48V go into thermal management mode, but it happened fairly regularly after about 6 miles on the 36V. To be fair to Falco, I was pushing the 36V to it's limits on Level 5 assist, 100% of the time. In retrospect I think that it was defective. Prior to the 48V upgrade, I'd had every intention of getting the 750 watt motor because I thought the 500 watt was not powerful enough.

Now I think it's just fine. It's not what I'd call a torque monster off the line, but it pulls as well as the other 500 watt bikes I've tried. Where it excels is top end speed. Once you get it going it goes like a bat out of hell. Hill climbing ability is surprisingly good. I've climbed up the hill to Rancho San Antonio on it several times and I've never needed more than Level 4 (out of 5). Of course that's only about a one mile climb, so I can't say I've really put it to the test.

 

[Ottodog]

UPDATE: Found some "Super Jumbo" Lizard Skin at Amazon.com and it's large enough to wrap completely around all the wiring and even the battery connector. I think it's better protected from bumps and moisture fully wrapped this way.

I really like this stuff. Here's a link if anyone is interested in trying it out: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WYEHUI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[mlb2109]

Lizard Skin on the way. Didn't know they were still around. We used to use them on brake and clutch levers on dirt motorcycles 30 years ago.

I think I was wrong in thinking I was experiencing thermal cutoffs. The console (display) controls are a bit confusing as the buttons all have multiple functions. It's easy to turn "cruise" mode off and be in "eco" and I think that might have been what I did when I was trying to change the display. Now that I've some time with it and the manual, the motor seems MUCH more powerful! (but not as strong as 36v stromer)
I've also tweaked the settings to get the boost only where I want it.
It's a very sweet system. BIt of a pain to get configured to work best for you, but compared to not being able to tweak it, what a blessing!!

Edit: Jumbo Lizard Skin is NOT big enough to go around trike frame tubing. O(