fardriver nd72450 setting with qs 3000w hub

[talgar]

Hi have a new nd72450 did some Auto learn but still have an issue
Don't know really what is the version of my motor qsmotor 3000w hub 12inch guess is v1 or v2 don't know the number of polepair and offset should I set?

I set up to 100A currentline and 200A phase is good?

The speedometer is wrong how can I fix this?
And how can I get a sharpest acceleration and torque?

 

[dominik h]

More phase current equals more tourqe and sharper acceleration.
Set throttle Acc to 224 for fastest throttle response.
You can enter what ever polpairs you want. It is only used for calculating the rpm and probably the speed.

Auto learn, learns and sets all the parameters needet to turn the motor. No need to change the by hand.

Which Display do you have?

 

[talgar]

Thanks finally I fixed the display with the speed pulse value I set to 9500 now works
I set 100A in continuous current because my Jkbms is 10p but how much should I set in phase? 200A or can handle more?
For the torque I set more power in first gear...like 50% because before was way too soft and sometime I could drive the step hills in my town in first gear...

What do you think should I set higher torque in first gear and lower torque in 3rd or this is is a bad idea?
I always heard that if I have to climb a high like 20 grade step mountain better to do it at low speed no?

Other thing when I accelerated in 3rd gear I sometime feel that the acceleration is not constant and release little that's normal?

For the regenerative I started to set it way higher like mostly 90% unto it get 700rpm and after slowly decreaseto 0 after...but I still feel that it doesn't brake much...when I'm going down will like to brake just with regenerative... this is good idea or will heat to much the controller?
For now the temp sensor said is going between 50 and 60 Celsius...how much is too much?

Lot of things have to Learn about this app
What is the VCU and the curve?

 

[dominik h]

VCU vehicle controll unit, I think this is an independent unit that can interact with the controller and probably forces the controller to reduce power when traction gets lost and other things, I think for motorcycles with lots of power.

In the menu curve you can watch measured values from the controller , but only the first 50 seconds after the Controller is turned on.
On the Screenshot below ( acceleration run from 0-115kph with my scooter) you see the same shaking at full speed when I had installed a ND72680 and a QS260 60V5000W Motor in my scooter. I never got completly rid of the shaking, tried a lot of parameter changes and finally reduced the top speed.


The 3kw can handle more than 200A phase current for short acceleration bursts. Ypur BMS can also. I have the JK-B2A-24S20P BMS , rated for 200A , in the software you can allow 350A for up to 600seconds. Actually I'm drawing 400A up to 30 seconds. After 13seconds 490A it shut off forever, i knew it could die during my BMS Test

Do you have a temp sensor in the motor? The controller will lower output power when the motor winding gets over 140C and will linear drop it to near zero power at 160C.
With my QS60V5000W, driven with up to 25kw i often got over 140C , the windings itself survived this , but I melted once the phase wires, while I tested my forced air cooling for the controller driving steep uphill with 25kw and downhill with 8kw regen braking, there I did not had a temperature sensor installed in the windings. The controller itself limits power over 80C.

I only use the third gear in my scooter now equipped with a ND721800 and I have no more shaking anymore.

If I would use the 3-Speed function, i would set 3 to 100%, 2 to 75% and 1 to 50% in phase current and also to different top speeds (for my scooter for example 3 to 125kph, 2 to 100kph, 1 to 55 kph)

Regenerative braking heats more the motor as the controller. To get more bracking force you need to raise the stop brake and Max brake value and adjust the percentages in the rpm tables

 

[talgar]

I think the stop brake is 5A and the max brake is at 20A how much more can I go? There is no risk for the motor?
I
Yes I have a temp sensor and now you said me that's true that this happen only today since I finally configured it...make sense...have my controller since yesterday pretty new to me
I don't check when I'm driving fast but when I'm done the temp is around 50 and 60 celcius... WHEN should have stop?
Same what is the normal range of temp of the controller?
When should I be alert?

The curve is only for test the 50 first seconds...no other use?
Still don't get what is Vcu use?

 

[dominik h]

60C is "cold"
Motor windings can tolerate 160C.
Controller reduces Power over 140C winding temp so you will not get to 160C.
Controller also reduces power over 80C controller temp, shut off is 100C if I remember right. I would say 60C is ok for Controller.

I would double stop brake and test.

If you want to tune your controller on a dyno , the curve menu is the thing that gets you forward.

I think VCU is a different unit, this menu appeared in App Version 2.4.x in the three years before this menu did not exist. You won't need it on a bicycle and I think it is a different piece of electronic.

In the menu you also see TCS traction controll System, but it does not exist a manual where it is described how it has to be set or what external components are needed to use it. I would live to have it on my scooter and then I could raise the phase amps to 1800 for maximum acceleration from a standstill without fearing of loosing control over my scooter.

 

[talgar]

That how I have my regen and three speed set...this is alright?

 

[dominik h]

Right or not depends on your prefetences and feeling.
I would go a different route and would set high gear to 100% in tourque and speed. Middle gear to 75% and low gear to maybe 50%

As long as you do not overheat anything there is no need to reduce power by default settings.

Best thing is to drive and control temperatures and than raise calues and drive again. Make shure that you raise your values slowly and check.
It only takes a few minutes to burn something.

The % settings in the rpm tables are percent of the phase current multiplied with the value of your max phase current settings and your gear settings.
At the moment you never reach your set 200A phase current.
100%x200Ax64% =128A phase current.

I have killed two Sabvoton Controllers and an a ANT BMS in seconds, because I played with the weakening field parameters.
Fardriver has more internally security and survives a lot of situation, like shortened phase wires or a cutting out BMS during regeneration braking. But now one knows when it is too much for the controller.

 

[talgar]

I have gear high speed at 100% not 64?
And I have low speed phase ratio at 64 but this is enought going 50kmh at 1
75kmh at gear 2
But yes want more torque
Torque and acceleration is related?
Because my acceleration in first gear still pretty soft to me

What the difference between line and phase ratio?

 

[talgar]

I have a kind of friction sound from the motor when I'm running at high speed ...?
What can be the cause ?lubrication?

 

[dominik h]

Speed ≈ rpm
Power output = phase current

100%x200Ax64% =128A phase current.
rpm table percent setting x max phase current x gear power settings = phase current the controller will make

You can watch in the meter menu , what phase current the motor is getting, but the meter shows rms current, while you enter peak current in the app (advertised value is peak current ND72450 can give 450A peak or 320A rms.
That is what I measured with my ND72680 , with 680A phase current setting i measured an rms current around 490A.

With every controller I had different noises coming from the motor, not loud but hearable. Hard to guessl if your noise is controller related or not.

 

[talgar]

Thought you talk about the three speed parameters in the basic
But You talk about the pro settings?
At 66 rpm have 100% speed
But in low speed phase ratio only 64%
So at low speed it only give me 64% of my torque?
So it mean that in my ratio in gear I should set all at 100%?

Well I took the rear brake off and spun the motor at high speed to see wasn't coming from the brake...and the motor still make a little weird noise at high speed not very loud but still

 

[dominik h]

So at low speed it only give me 64% of my torque?

Yes, only 64% of your max phase current settings multiplied with the value in the rpm table, which means 36% less tourque

If you want faster acceleration you can also raise the other low rpm percentage values until your controller reaches max line current, from there on the line current setting will be the restriction for the phase current value.

At low rpm you can have high phase current and low line current, because the motor only gets a few volts from the controller, at higher rpms the voltage rises and the phase current will drop.
For example
66rpm you have probably 5V at the motor and 200A peak phase current
P=U x I/sqrt2 x sqrt3
5Vx200A/1.41x1.73=1226W

At full speed you have highest voltage and lower phase current
For example
50V x 50A/1.41 x 1.73 = 3000W

 

[talgar]

Ok so if I understand Dominik have to set my low-speed phase ratio to 100%
Low speed line ratio let it at 49% ??

And midspeedlineratio at 60% and midspeedphaseratio at 75% that's alright?

And if I want a faster acceleration raise the porcentage at higher rpm...

Got it right?

 

[Currawong]

Hi talgar,
I can see you have set your battery at 72v.
what is your battery pack specific's?

Just interested in terms of range?
Thanks

 

[talgar]

The specs of my battery?
72v55Ah 100A continuous with a Jk bms BD6A24s10p and 18650 2500mahcells

Works pretty well since a year that I use it almost making 70 to 80km daily working never have a trouble with the battery perfectly balanced
I can make easily 110km range maybe more depend of road inclination
But I never uses my battery past40% if I can to preserve it

Well all this was with my last 60 Amp generic controler that just burned last week so I hope that with my new effeicient fardriver will do better but because will have more performance maybe not...

Still saving money to build myself a 72v100ah lifepo4...this year if i can...already have a Jk B2A24s15p...hope reaching 250A continuous with both battery in parallele...and maybe 300km range !

Next will change my motor for a 5000w or a 8000w if I can homely next year
Little by little building the best scooter that I can....I save so much money in transport very good deal for me

 

[dominik h]

For faster acceleration you have to raise your values at 133rpm 200rpm and 266rpm and then reduce with every step in rpm until your top speed.

What do you want to achieve with the three different settings?

Why do you want to reduce phase current and loose tourque and acceleration with your gear settings? I would only reduce speed and line current for more range.

 

[talgar]

For faster acceleration you have to raise your values at 133rpm 200rpm and 266rpm and then reduce with every step in rpm until your top speed.

What do you want to achieve with the three different settings?

Why do you want to reduce phase current and loose tourque and acceleration with your gear settings? I would only reduce speed and line current for more range.

So I set phase current to 100%at all speed?
An line current?

Look my idea was
at gear-1 a city mode
Going to 50kmh for city and soft acceleration could help for going through traffic jam...

At gear 2 A kind of eco mode
Like going around 70kmh which is my rated speed effective for my 3000w like this I can have a longer range but with max acceleration

At gear 3 a bus or truck passing mode
Like going max speed and max acceleration to be able to pass quickly and safely vehicle on the road if needed

I still want a kind of climbing mode...for going at the top of mountain where I live...mean going 20 degree step road sometime of 5km long...with my girlfriend like a weight total of 150kg...so I need all my torque for it....which gear should I choose? How fast should I climb to be the more effective and not overheat the motor?

 

[dominik h]

Understood
Than I would reduce gear 1 to 50-70% in phase current and 50% line current.
Gear 2 to 60-75% line current.
Gear 3 to 100%

 

[talgar]

So
lowspeedlineratio 50%
lowspeedphaseratio 70%

Midspeedlineratio 75%
Midspeedphaseratio 75%

Gearhigh power output 100%

???

What do you advise me for climbing mountains with heavy weight? Going on 3rd gear?

 

[dominik h]

Depends on the motor temperature.
I would watch them a few times in the app, their you will see if it is to much

 

[talgar]

My highest torque will be in 3rd?
I just have to be careful and not climbing too fast?
I guess 40 or 30kmh is a good momentum for climbing long road without producing too much heat?

 

[dominik h]

Your highest tourque will be in 3rd.
Just watch the motor temperature with the app and you will see when you want to much power uphill.

30-40 should be possible.

 

[talgar]

There is a way to set a digital motor temp display on my scooter?
Like those simple one just for being alert and not have to check phone all time...

 

[dominik h]

There are no cheap solutions for the KTY83-122 which is normaly installed in the QS Motor