faux-vintage electric cars to replace horse carriages

[Ykick]

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/meet-the-contraption-that-wants-to-replace-central-park-horses/


Marilynn K. Yee/The New York Times

A model of the faux-vintage electric car that horse advocates say could replace carriage horses in New York, with Ed Sayres, left, and Steve Nislick of NY-Class, the group that sponsors the cars.

The faux-vintage electric car that horse advocates want to replace Central Park’s carriage horses has classic white-walled tires, running boards, mahogany and an “ah-hoogah” horn.

On Thursday, in a fourth-floor conference room of Manhattan’s Hippodrome — where circus horses once performed — Jason Wenig set a model of it across the table from the car’s sponsors.

“Brass is going to be everywhere, and it’s going to be shiny and beautiful,” said Mr. Wenig, who runs a customized car design shop in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

NY-Class, a nonprofit group that lobbies for the removal of the carriage horses from New York City, revealed the car for the first time on Thursday.

NY-Class, which stands for New Yorkers for Clean, Livable and Safe Streets, paid $12,500 to have the two-foot-long lime green model built. It is based on turn-of-the-20th-century cars. Lanterns perch on its sides. Tiny baskets that would carry a driver’s lunch or extra blankets hang from it. Its convertible top rolls back in sections. The car is intended to hold up to six tourists.

Since its founding in 2008, NY-Class has been promoting “replacing” the city’s carriage horses with 68 electric cars, one of several proposals by animal-rights advocates over the years to get rid of the carriage horse industry, which they say is inhumane.

Last year, a City Council measure pushed by NY-Class was introduced that would gradually phase out carriages horses and create a new class of for-hire low-emissions vehicles called “show cars” that would resemble antique cars, operate from a fixed place in the city and charge rates competitive with carriage-horse rates,

Advocates hope that carriage owners would trade their carriage licenses for show car medallions.

According to a feasibility study sponsored by NY-Class, the plan would preserve carriage industry’s jobs and generate slightly more taxable revenue. It is estimated that the cash-based carriage horse industry pulls in $15 million annually.

“They’re guaranteed not to urinate or defecate in the middle of your romantic moment,” added Ed Sayres, co-president of NY-Class and president of the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which supports NY-Class.

But support for the bill, known as Intro 86, is limited; it has been stalled for more than a year, in part because the city adopted a competing bill last year that raised the fares carriage horse drivers could charge and ensured that the horses got five weeks’ rest in a pasture outside the city.

Intro 86 has also been met with stiff resistance from the carriage horse industry.

“I don’t think there are any kids out there that are going to want to pet and kiss the fender of a car,” said Cornelius Bryne, owner of one of the city’s four carriage horse stables.

The cars are projected to cost $125,000 to $175,000. NY-Class envisions that a nonprofit group that provides financing to start-ups would buy the cars and lease them to drivers for $21,000 a year. Purchasing a new horse and carriage costs $15,000 on average.

If produced, the cars would operate on five lithium-ion battery packs, weighing up to 1,000 pounds. In the ideal design, the batteries could last for 10 hours on a two-to-three-hour charge. In Central Park, the cars would cruise at five miles per hour, but they would be able to reach a top speed of 35 m.p.h.

Mr. Wenig said that once he got the green light, he could have prototypes on the road in a year.

 

[dnmun]

what a shame. of course there will be no place in this future for the old guy who has had his horse for decades.

the only place for the horse after this is the slaughter house. that sounds humane.

the only chance a lot of people ever have to see a horse close up. now sterilized for the bloomberg era.

if they wanna keep people from getting fat on the fructose soda pops, they could just remove them from the eligible food items in the food stamp program. just tell people on food stamps they cannot buy fat inducing morbidity enhancing food items. problem solved.

it just amazes me to see someone buy a whole case of soda pop on food stamps, and trundle it and their 300 lb butt out the supermarket doors on an electric cart.

 

[TylerDurden]

what a shame. of course there will be no place in this future for the old guy who has had his horse for decades.

the only place for the horse after this is the slaughter house. that sounds humane.

Ever been to NYC? Ever seen the life of a Carriage Horse? Most of the time is spent standing hitched to the cab for hours.

The retired animals can be pastured upstate.

 

[Ykick]

I kinda thought the point of a city is/was to reduce animal manure in the streets? I shit you not (or maybe I do?) I've had more than a few close calls braking the front wheel on piles of wet road apples in upper midtown. And riding over it on wet roads sends a nice poop spray up into the face!

More importantly, these horses live a tough life standing around on pavement in heat, cold, wet - only to share roads with rushing taxi drivers, tour buses and general traffic mayhem.

I've gotta farming background - love horses and livestock but IMO they belong in rural areas. Bring the children to see 'em in a more natural habitat, not this BS they've passed off as "romantic" NYC experience.

The car thing could be cool and educational. Especially, if they recreate a turn of the century electric carriage house with lighting strings used for charging, etc. Eventually, phase out horse drawn carriages just like what happened in the city's history.

 

[TylerDurden]

We took a handsome cab ride in Central Park with a couple of newlyweds. It was charming, but would have been just as much so in one of those proposed replicars.


I've been riding since I was a kid at camp. Last time I was on horseback was in the Bronx. My last NYC steed was named "Scarface". :lol:

http://www.nycgovparks.org/facilities/horseback

 

[dnmun]

i don't disagree it is a horrible life for them. retirement for domestic animals just seems so far fetched. imo.

i just don't think the guys who are hacks now will have a job when the new carriage licenses are handed out and i suspect it will be some sorta legal investment vehicle that will be used as a tax write off by wealthy hedge fund bosses. they will hire some kids to drive the faux cars around.

but it seems silly to build up faux electric cars without knowing if they will sell to the public.

it woulda been more acceptable maybe if they had used mules instead of horses all along since people don't seem to care the same way for mules, or donkeys, or burros. jmho

 

[Ykick]

It's a tough issue and not made any easier by local politics, cronyism and the usual suspects playing "medallion" games. 'seems to be a compelling need though to relocate these animals away from the congested areas around the park?

Appreciate the equestrian park links TD, 'heard about 'em over the years but never really understood. Makes more sense now.

The Pedal Pub idea really struck me as a smash hit but can you imagine NYC (or any city USA) allowing people to have that much fun?

 

[TylerDurden]

More info via NYT:


Push to Ban New York Carriage Horses Gains Steam
Published: December 7, 2011
James Estrin/The New York Times

Animal rights activists rallied at City Hall last month, calling for a ban on horse-drawn carriages. Charlie was a carriage horse who died.

But now this old-fashioned industry is facing unprecedented turmoil.

After campaigning for decades, animal rights advocates are gaining support for legislation that would ban those horse-drawn carriages, including endorsements from mayoral candidates and celebrities.

The carriage owners say they are being harassed, but they also acknowledge carrying out a campaign to infiltrate the activist groups and secretly record their strategy sessions.

Both the animal rights advocates and the carriage owners say they have been subjected to threats of violence by the other side.

The struggle is so tense that when an accident last summer left a carriage driver in a coma, the hospital where he was recovering was not immediately disclosed, out of concern that activists would stage protests there.

The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals has become ensnared in the debate over the carriages. The group’s chief equine veterinarian, Dr. Pamela Corey, said her supervisors pushed her to slant her conclusions about the death of a carriage horse, to generate sympathy for a ban.

Besides the animal rights campaigners, the industry is facing a classic New York peril: rising real estate values. Developers covet the stables on the Far West Side where the horses have long been kept.

New York City’s carriage horses have long been a cause célèbre for animal rights advocates. Now, though, even the trade’s staunchest defenders say its survival is threatened as never before.

“People in our business probably think that we probably won’t survive forever and are asking, ‘How long will we last,’ ” said Conor McHugh, a carriage driver and the manager of Clinton Park Stables, one of four stables in the city that house the horses.

“But we will keep fighting,” Mr. McHugh added.

The city’s licensed carriage horse industry — 68 carriages, 216 horses and 282 drivers — brings in roughly $15 million annually, officials estimate.

Drivers charge $50 for a 20-minute ride through Central Park, and $20 for each additional 10 minutes. On a good day, they can make 15 trips, grossing at least $750 plus tips.

Drivers’ earnings are said to range from $40,000 to $100,000 annually, depending primarily on whether they own their horses, what shifts they work (day shifts are better) and how bad the weather and the economy are.

So far this year, seven incidents involving carriage horses have been reported, including a collision with a taxi. With each accident, animal rights campaigners raise alarms. They say carriage horses work under cruel conditions: nine-hour shifts, wading through Manhattan traffic, in almost any weather, with no space to frolic in a pasture.

The activists have rounded up endorsements from celebrities like the designer Calvin Klein and the actresses Pamela Anderson and Lea Michele, while lawmakers allied with them have introduced bills at the state and city levels to abolish the industry.

Last year, the City Council approved a measure to improve working and living conditions for the horses but would not pass a ban.

Many weekends, one group or another gathers across from the Plaza Hotel, where carriages congregate at an entrance to Central Park, to hold a protest.

“Horses frighten very easily,” said Edita Birnkrant, the New York director of one of the advocacy groups, Friends of Animals. “The noises of New York City, the chaos — it is all just an inherently dangerous environment, and they don’t belong here.”

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has been an ardent supporter of the carriages. After a horse fell Sunday in Midtown Manhattan, Mr. Bloomberg dismissed criticism of the industry.

“Carriage horses have traditionally been a part of New York City,” he said. “The tourists love them, and we’ve used from time immemorial animals to pull things. They are well treated, and we’ll continue to make sure that they are well treated.”

The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals is one of the groups leading the effort to ban the carriages. It is also one of the three entities — along with the city’s health department and the Department of Consumer Affairs — that regulate the industry.

“I don’t see it as a conflict,” the society’s president, Ed Sayres, said last month on the steps of City Hall after a rally against the carriages. “If we don’t bring forward the risk factor that we are observing, then it would be negligent.”

In 2008, Mr. Sayres teamed up with Stephen Nislick, chief executive of the development company Edison Properties, which owns Manhattan Mini Storage, to develop a plan to replace the carriage horses with electric-powered replicas of antique cars.

“The cars provide an economic win for the drivers, owners and for the city,” Mr. Nislick said.

With $400,000 from the A.S.P.C.A., and a contribution from Mr. Nislick, the two men started NY-Class, a nonprofit organization that has collected more than 55,000 signatures backing city legislation that would carry out their plan.

Their campaign has been roiled, however, by a dispute over the death of a carriage horse named Charlie in October. The A.S.P.C.A. at first quoted its chief equine veterinarian, Dr. Corey, as saying the horse “was not a healthy horse and was likely suffering from pain.”

Soon after, Dr. Corey retracted her statement and said the society had pushed her to distort her findings to turn public opinion against the carriages. “I was under a lot of pressure during the writing of that press release,” she said.

She said there was no evidence that Charlie was experiencing pain or had been abused.

The society suspended Dr. Corey after she spoke out. She then filed a complaint with the state attorney general’s office, contending that on several occasions she had been pressured to slant her professional opinion to help achieve a ban.

A spokeswoman for the A.S.P.C.A., Elizabeth Estroff, said it was baffled by Dr. Corey’s claims, adding that Dr. Corey had “ultimately reviewed, edited and approved the final statement” about the horse.

The carriage industry has filed its own complaints with city and state agencies against the A.S.P.C.A. and NY-Class. Some carriage owners have gone to NY-Class meetings, without disclosing their identities. They have recorded discussions that they maintain show that the activists are bent on distorting the carriage industry’s record.

On one recording, Mr. Nislick describes efforts to gain the support of city politicians by giving them campaign contributions.

The politicians “want money from people and they want your vote,” Mr. Nislick said, according to the recording.

Asked about the recordings, Mr. Nislick declined to comment.

The carriage owners also assert that Mr. Nislick wants to be able to gain control of the land under the carriage horse stables.

Two of the stables are on a prime block between West 37th and 38th Streets in the heart of Hudson Yards, a sprawling commercial and residential development.

Mr. Nislick denied being interested in the land, but other developers envision transforming the lots into hotels and office buildings.

If the stables were sold and then closed, the carriage horses could end up homeless, and their owners could go out of business. Relocating uptown, and closer to Central Park, may not be an option with real estate scarce.

The stables on 37th and 38th Streets are in the district of the City Council speaker, Christine C. Quinn, a Democrat who is expected to run for mayor. Like Mr. Bloomberg, Ms. Quinn has supported the carriage industry, though she has called recently for increased oversight of the horses.

Two other likely Democratic mayoral candidates — Scott M. Stringer, the Manhattan borough president, and William C. Thompson Jr., the former city comptroller — have supported the ban, as well as the electric car initiative.

NY-Class and other animal rights groups pledge that if the carriages are eliminated, they will find safe pastures for the 216 horses. But many veterinarians say horse sanctuaries around the country are full, and facing difficulties because of the economy.

“If we banned the carriage horse industry tomorrow, they would go straight to slaughter,” said Dr. Nena Winand, an upstate New York veterinarian who is a member of the American Association of Equine Practitioners. “There is no big field out there, there is no one to pay the bills.”


This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: December 9, 2011


An article on Thursday about a push to ban horse-drawn carriage rides in Central Park misstated the year that two advocates teamed up to develop a plan to replace those carriages with electric-powered replicas of antique cars, in a group called NY-Class. It was 2008, not 2009.

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: December 13, 2011


An article on Thursday about a push to ban horse-drawn carriage rides in Central Park misstated part of the name of an organization to which an upstate New York veterinarian belongs, and it described the carriages incorrectly at one point. The veterinarian, Dr. Nena Winand, is a member of the American Association of Equine Practitioners, not the American Society of Equine Practitioners. And the carriages have four wheels, and therefore are not “hansom cabs,” which are two-wheeled. An accompanying picture caption, as well as a subheading in some editions, and a correction in this space on Friday repeated the error about the cabs. (A reader pointed out this inaccuracy in a letter published in The Times in 1985, but this is the first correction of numerous such references through the years.)

A version of this article appeared in print on December 8, 2011, on page A1 of the New York edition with the headline: Old-Time New York Pleasure Faces Growing Storm of Opposition.

 

[dnmun]

money, money, money, money .... money!


that seinfeld episode is classic. and soup nazi.