First build

[rodgah]

Hi folks,

I have been a long time lurker here at ES watching everyone lay the groundwork to rc development. I have decided to build my own project and I thought I would post up the build as it progresses. My bike is well, what can I say, I bought a Big W special (americans think Kmart Walmart etc..) for use with a cyclone kit. But after much thought a cyclone setup wouldnt tickle my fancy for very long. So along came Recumpence/Matts PK ripper....needless to say I was impressed, and the trike that followed just spurred me along.

So long story short I have decided to use the frame of the bike since its cromolly (easy to strengthen, and adapt and weld to compared to ally) and upgrade just about everything else. At this point id like to say this bike is the most genre confused bike there will ever be, now being a street/DJ frame, cross country wheelset, entry level forks, huge rotors and cruiser bike hookworms, with trials pedal gearing. Oh and electric

It will be the same setup as Matts Ripper with parralell chains, using his drive with twin 3220's and 20ah of lipo.

For any other Aussies and possibly everyone else may be interested, I have found a aussie Trials bike website that sells Echo cranks for cheap. http://shop.trialshive.com/product_...id=53&osCsid=bfa69c78bf904ad72b704fe6159c25ba
I am probably going to just use a 22 tooth ENO or cheaper freewheel on the Echo cranks to a 13tooth or less(availability?) single speed sprocket due to size restrictions and honestly I aint gonna be pedalling with 2 3220s am I. I will also be going to 203mm Rotors with the Hayes strokers. The batteries will be going into a light weight ally box inside of the triangle, similar to D's kona, along with throttleizer and the pair of HV160 controllers. Due again to size restrictions you may of guessed already that Im not going to use the clamps that matt makes for his drive since they would impede on the box inside the triangle, so i will be making my own way of mounting the drive to the frame.

So my Questions start now.
Is an expensive ENO really worth it for me, since im not going to be pedalling, probably ever(seeing that if it is freewheeling almost all the time, does this wear them out)?

Aussie Jester / Timma / any other Lipo aussies....
What is the implications with ordering a large amount of lipo into australia from hobbycity with respect to shipping safety and import tax ect..

Im a battery dumbass, I understand how not discharging to batterys lower limit and not charging to absolutely full, makes cells last longer, but as for BMS i think i have just read too much and cannot decide what i want. i can put up with charging each pack one by one but obviously not desireable. Can i ballance each pack to the same charge, then parralell all 8 of them together for normal charges, and ballance each pack now and then to keep them at the same level. Is there a 6s charger that anyone could recommend for doing such a method. Is there a plug in BMS that could handle my setup? Does the HV160 have LVC and does this work well enough so i dont kill cells.

Is there a freehub adaptor to 110mm bcd chainring? not essential because i can laser cut it so my other question, if not does someone have the exact measurements / drawing of the spline of the freehub without clearance adjustments. I did follow LFP thread on broaching ENO's and it does interest me, but since im in australia i think it maybe just too much effort to get that arranged.

Are D's kona, Timmas Norco ect with on/off switch on the bars just using a contactor to the pack, if so where can I get a contactor that will work with this kind of current.

Finally the last thing that is on my mind at the moment is my rear axil as in horizontal drop outs, with quick release. i believe i will need adjusters but can anyone recommend strong ones that wont break like Aussiejesters did. i also guess i cant use quick release with them correct?


If my bike works and performs to anything close to matts ripper, I will have to build the exact same setup onto a norco ryde.

Please feel free to comment, I am open to out of the box ideas, because essentially I have just compiled each user on this sites ideas and options that i like into one bike.

cheers and ps I dont pretend to know you guys (people i have mentioned) I just find it easier to relate to everyone the way everyone else does, so no offence intended.

 

[AussieJester]

So my Questions start now.
Is an expensive ENO really worth it for me, since im not going to be pedalling, probably ever(seeing that if it is freewheeling almost all the time, does this wear them out)?

If the eno is for the crank it is highly recommended you go with it ...

Aussie Jester / Timma / any other Lipo aussies....
What is the implications with ordering a large amount of lipo into australia from hobbycity with respect to shipping safety and import tax ect..

Had no issues at all ordered 8 22v packs in one hit were delivered for the quoted price from HC
with no additional import duties by customs. Hyena has ordered more than I and AFAIK he
hasn't had issues either.

Finally the last thing that is on my mind at the moment is my rear axil as in horizontal drop outs, with quick release. i believe i will need adjusters but can anyone recommend strong ones that wont break like Aussiejesters did. i also guess i cant use quick release with them correct?

ChoppersUS do sell the adjusters i think IIRC they are in the drive train section of the site...

Best of luck with the build & welcome to ES

KiM

EDIT. p.s niiice Honda 250 in the pic too

 

[AussieJester]

Was just looking at the trials site you lined too...they also sell some meaty looking chain tensioner

http://shop.trialshive.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=55&osCsid=bfa69c78bf904ad72b704fe6159c25ba

Definitely stronger looking than the ChopperUS offerings anyway

KiM

 

[recumpence]

That frame looks fantastic for this type of build. You can easily weld mount tabs for my drive to the lower frame tube.

I can hook you up with the motors, the twin motor drive (obviously) and the HV160s. I am also about to release a thumb throttle solution using a Magura twist grip as a base. You can send me a PM and I can get you prices. I can still do discounts on Astro motors.

As for performance; you will have to be VERY careful riding that thing with two 3220s! It will have the power of a 125cc motorcross bike with less weight than a 60cc kids bike! I cannot stress enough the importance of safety on such a monster build. You will, indeed, be happy with the power. But, you cannot imagine the torque you will be seeing at the rear wheel. This thing will be a freakin MONSTER!

In any event, shoot me a PM with your email address so we can talk further.

Lastly, all the guys here are very good at answering questions and welcoming newcomers. No worries on the fact that you do not yet know us all personally. That will come with time.

Welcome!

Matt

 

[Timma2500]

Hi Rodgah, welcome to E.S.

Holy sh*t mate, awsome 1st build!!! twin 3220's / 20ah of lipo / twin HV160's / lightweight hardtail = a guided missile the military would struggle to catch!
As Matt said that is seriously guna haul ass, although if thats your CR250, i'd say your used to handling a quick bike... :wink:

Aussie Jester / Timma / any other Lipo aussies....
What is the implications with ordering a large amount of lipo into australia from hobbycity with respect to shipping safety and import tax ect..

I have found over the years of ordering from Chain Reaction Cycles that if ya keep the order under $1000Aud, no import tax was added. Someone more knowledgable may be able to be more specific. I ordered my lipo from Truerc.com about 6 - 7 months ago and had no dramas, havn't ordered from Hobby City yet so can't comment.

Are D's kona, Timmas Norco ect with on/off switch on the bars just using a contactor to the pack, if so where can I get a contactor that will work with this kind of current.

I can't speak for D but mine (when i get around to wiring it up) will just be picking up the middle wire on the reciever leads of the HV140. I don't think it's a proper switch, Matt may be able to explain it more in-depth but i think it only partially shuts down the ESC.

Does the HV160 have LVC and does this work well enough so i dont kill cells.

The 140 does so i'd assume the 160 would. The EvLogix Throttlizer has one as well if you were guna use one of those. Having two LVC's gives me peace of mind as does a temp probe on the ESC to protect it from over heating. With a 160 and good air flow you should be fine.

Is an expensive ENO really worth it for me, since im not going to be pedalling, probably ever(seeing that if it is freewheeling almost all the time, does this wear them out)?

I reckon it would still be worth it - the ENO would probably have less run-out / run straighter than a cheaper unit, therefore allowing tighter clearances to be acheived between the dual chains and frame and drive unit etc if needed.

Goodluck with the build, can't wait to see the progresion! Don't forget to include plenty of pics!


Paul

 

[grindz145]

That frame is actually wicked cool for a big-box store. I can't imagine going to Dick's and getting a dirt jump bike. Godspeed.

 

[rodgah]

guys yes you caught me out I have a serious need for speed. some other bikes I have owned
2003 R1 - BMC airfilter, Gianelli pipe and powercommander best time of 10.10 Quarter/Mile


2002 yz426f - hardly anything standard inside of it anymore


07 Cr250 in the background, last 2 stroke mx 250 honda made, last of from my opinion the golden age of motocross bikes. As good as 50 4-strokes sound over the start gates, you just cant match the sound and buzz u feel with riding a 2 stroke. After ~20 years of riding bikes, the smell sound and feel of riding a 2stroke 250 still makes me tingle and yes i am only 25.

I have owned quite a few, and some fast cars aswell, But bikes are my passion....peddling not so much but still beats anything else.

Kim : ozzy ozzy ozzy hahaha yeah I will go ahead and order the whole lot of batt's in one go, is 20c enough....Matt? I noticed the chain tugs after I looked further into that site.

MAtt : I PM'd you before christmas, I still have not followed up on it as I am waiting for funds etc, planets to align etc etc hahaha. Since you supply the WI freewheel on your drive, are you able to supply me either a 22tooth white or a flanged one.....reason I ask is its hard to get anything locally, and I would prefer to order everything from one location. safety what safety hahaha im an aussy, we wear thongs singlets and stubbies (short shorts for people not in the know) hahaha not really, but arent we already known for being hard headed fools. I agree the power will be quite substantial, i hope my poor little XC wheels can cope. I think I may stick with a conventional throttle as that is what im obviously used to, what is the reasoning behind a thumb throttle?

Paul : yes its a bit more than most peoples first builds. I still sit in awe of your handy work on your bike, not really my cup of tea(having to pedal) but looking at it from a machining DIY job it definitly is the best of anything i have ever seen given the tools used. Of course, i forgot you could just ground out the throttle rendering it useless, but what i was really looking for was a contactor so that A) it handles the arc of connection to the controllers instead of burning out the connectors B) if something bad happens and i have a run away i want a sure fire way of disconnecting power. I can handle replacing it every now and then due to current wrecking it, providing it isnt too expensive. with regards to LVC yes i forgot the throttlizer has LVC aswell, is it the norm for you guys to rely on the esc and throttlizer for lvc?

finally i think the only thing i still have questions on is charging this pack, i realise gdgoodrum has a bms in the pipework but from what im aware it is still a way off. I dont mind the method i previously mentioned but just want to know if this is possible and what charger is decent.

grindz145 : yes i love the shape of the bike, but in the pics i attached the only parts left on the bike that are original from the shop is the frame and gooseneck.

Thanks for the advice and motivation guys

 

[AussieJester]

Kim : ozzy ozzy ozzy hahaha yeah I will go ahead and order the whole lot of batt's in one go, is 20c enough....Matt? I noticed the chain tugs after I looked further into that site.

Oi Oi Oi I know the Turnigy packs C rate are said to be underrated, whatever Matt suggest go with though he knowz best

I should of hit Matt up for a Wi freewheel i didn't even think to ask if he had them in stock, I know SickBikeParts
have taken their sweet ass time getting mine out been waiting 2 weeks for it already :-(

I would leave the Battery management till the end and hope and pray Gary has the boards ready will make things soooooo
much easier for you.

Agreed on the 2 stroke too, tiz a said day when they are completely gone :-(

KiM

 

[electraflyit]

Hi, mate

Looks like the east coast is catching up fast to the west coast (AussieJester) with some 'out there' builds.
Can't wait for the next installment on this build.
Makes my GM hub on a Ebay special pale into ..... really average.

go the Aussies

(OPPPPs forgot Timma2500 build in the west also.) Come on rodgah don't let the east down.

Eddie

 

[AussieJester]

go the Aussies

(OPPPPs forgot Timma2500 build in the west also.) Come on rodgah don't let the east down.

Eddie

Ditto...and don't forget we have Matt.Ps L337 cruiser also ...could i tempt you to move from
Queensland rodgah to the West? ...Timma2500 is originally a Banna Bender but we have claimed as a Sandgroper now of course if his build had sucked he would still be a Queenslander living in West OZ hehehe..

KiM

 

[rodgah]

Well Kim funny you mention it, I was thinking of moving over to perth to operate machinery because things are still slow over here in the coal fields. No doubt if I moved it would then pick up, my luck.

electraflyit: beleive it or not, I have been thinking about putting a GM or x408 on another hardtail with a decent amount of battery, docs 100+kms range really tickles me.

I made the mistake of going to my local bike store. I didnt mention anything about motors, not pedalling or electrics, all I wanted to know was if they could order Trials cranks and WI enos......
welllllllllllllll........ lets just say wish i didnt. Not only did they not understand that there are indeed cranks that have thread on sprockets or freewheels if your so inclined, but the fact that they didnt want to recognise trials bicycles exist, ummm danny mcgaskill????????? instead of making a little money out of mark up from ordering parts for me, they decide to be pig headed and ignorant. their loss

batteries should be ordered by the end of next week...maaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttttt 20c alright???? i think ill have to PM him. It also looks that I will be ordering 2 of everything, my mate cannot wait to see mine going, he wants his own.

 

[AussieJester]

all I wanted to know was if they could order Trials cranks and WI enos......

White Industries do have an Australian agent for there Eno freewheels just so happens they are in Queensland to

The freewheels that you want for the cranks though as per sold by SickBikeParts (non toothed version)
is an item made exclusively for SBP and cannot be purchased at any other WI agent unfortunately
i even checked this with WI after Pablo from SickBkes told me this...

For the standard oothed enos though try this mob-->

Australia
Definitive Cycles
127 Nearra Street
Deagon QLD

Tel: +614 1372 4484

Web: http://www.definitivecycles.com.au
E-mail: info@definitivecycles.com.au

IMO 20c is fine if your going with the Zippy or Turnigy packs has been said they are very underatted in their rating. BUT that
said buy the highest 'C' rate you can afford...seeing your a CUB (see p.s) you could probably afford 100c lipos

KiM

p.s so your a CUB..i.e Cashed Up Bogan hehe..works in the mining industry owns 4 houses and heap of big boyz toyz no doubt...
we seen the moto-x bikes, wheres the 40k Harley, the v8 UTE , the fishing boat and the 4x4 that tows it mate?

You should DEFINITELY head West we have that many mines here too choose from spatted across the state...

 

[rodgah]

busted again, actually mate I am not a CUB at the moment I am just working normal town labouring till things pick up again. I have a IT degree(never used it), have programmed for and operated laser cutting machines, worked at large scale refineries but I still want to just drive trucks hahahaha . no no 4wd or boat(not too keen on fishing) houses or harley(i have thought about it once or twice though), but i do have a ute aswell.

View attachment 1


I am really only after a 22tooth. i want to use that up the front, pedalling will be rediculous but possible, and it will be compact. i will give them a call thank you. 20c, because i dont want to spend money on stuff i dont need. as far as im aware it would be really hard to maxx out a 20c rate in such a batt configuration anyway, maybe if it was geared for 150km/h. anything under 60kms/h will prolly result in the front wheel in the air.

 

[rodgah]

can anyone tell me why some attached images show up while others dont.

 

[deecanio]

Hi Rodgah,

this will be an awesome build, if it's as quick as Matts bmx you'll be in for a hoot
Im with you on the total power kill in terms of kill switch, mine is hooked up to a contacter via a dc dc converter with some other bobbins i probably don't recal, jozzers handy work so dont ask me how it works i know theres a few ways to pull down the esc but imo you should go for cutting the pack totally method if you can.
echo cranks are sweet and definately go with the eno, you wont be pedaling ever but you still need a "get home" so it may as well be of quality.
welcome to the forum, and keep the pics coming.


D

 

[Scorefield]

Nice bike, looking forward to see how it goes with those motors.

can anyone tell me why some attached images show up while others dont.

There you go, just make the size smaller.

 

[AussieJester]

Very nice U-Beaut UUUUTE you CUB you

KiM

 

[recumpence]

batteries should be ordered by the end of next week...maaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttttt 20c alright????

Just get the highest C rating you can afford. Basically, the higher the C rating, the lower the IR (internal resistance). The lower the IR, the more performance you will get because you will see far less voltage sag under load. You can also charge higher C packs faster.

D,

This thing will have twice the power of my PK! It will be a freakin BEAST! I have a customer building nearly the same bike setup (full suspension, though) and is nearly done.

When I put two 3220s on a bike, I never thought it would catch on like this! But, if done right, you can have the performance of a factory built motorcrosser with the weight of a 60cc kids bike, while retaining pedals so you can fly under the radar and be "Street-legal". Just remember, the power is not what the police dislike, it is riding like a fool and giving yourself away. Stay modest on the road with that insane beast and let-er-rip on the trails and you will be fine!

Matt

 

[Timma2500]

Hehe, seems a few of us here are into cars and bikes. Luke (liveforphysics) loves his big bore ktm 2 stroke and 10sec drag car My daily driver up till a few months ago was a 400hp R32 GTST with '25 conversion, a wheel spinning best of 13.4@107mph street trim. Did Bris to Perth n back in it too :wink:
Nice R1 and 426 by the way - what header pipe is that on the YZ?
I agree, rip 2t dirt bikes my '07 ktm 200exc was fun hmm but so was my '05 WR450F too! grunt machine...

I made the mistake of going to my local bike store

Thats Toowoomba for ya! :wink: For Enos locally, that Brisbane dealer seemed cool when i spoke to him on blower. Competitive on price at the time too.

Timma2500 is originally a Banna Bender but we have claimed as a Sandgroper now of course if his build had sucked he would still be a Queenslander living in West OZ hehehe..

LMFAO! You crack me up AJ! :lol:

not really my cup of tea(having to pedal)

with an 8150 between my legs, i won't be pedalling much either i dare say!
Your idea of using a 22t eno on the cranks as a get home mode is a ripper, nice n compact eh. Will make it easier to arrange your chains for clearance i'd say.

is it the norm for you guys to rely on the esc and throttlizer for lvc?

not sure if its the norm but i figure having 2, i've got a reserve if one fails...
Oh i agree re the switch, mine is sorta dodgy i know...

Paul

 

[rodgah]

Nice R1 and 426 by the way - what header pipe is that on the YZ?

umm its standard in that picture, but it did eventually get a DEP powerbomb, I highly recommend one.

Thats Toowoomba for ya! :wink: For Enos locally, that Brisbane dealer seemed cool when i spoke to him on blower. Competitive on price at the time too.

man i wish i lived in toowoomba.... i live in townsville, just like toowoomba but so much further away from anywhere nice.

Nice bike, looking forward to see how it goes with those motors.

cheers and thanks for explaining the pics

Hi Rodgah,

this will be an awesome build, if it's as quick as Matts bmx you'll be in for a hoot
Im with you on the total power kill in terms of kill switch, mine is hooked up to a contacter via a dc dc converter with some other bobbins i probably don't recal, jozzers handy work so dont ask me how it works i know theres a few ways to pull down the esc but imo you should go for cutting the pack totally method if you can.
echo cranks are sweet and definately go with the eno, you wont be pedaling ever but you still need a "get home" so it may as well be of quality.
welcome to the forum, and keep the pics coming.


D

cheers, your description of your contactor baffles me, i guess i will research this more.

Matt: OK ill get what i can afford re batteries. the law is somewhat relaxed here, more so if you dont appear to be doing anything wrong. But yes because of the nature of this bike, it wouldnt really be used for commuting, hence not really going to be seen by many people at all.

 

[Timma2500]

man i wish i lived in toowoomba.... i live in townsville, just like toowoomba but so much further away from anywhere nice.

Don't ask me why i thought you were in toowoomba.... Timma! Oh forgot to mention - you beaut ute you have there too.


Paul

 

[rodgah]

thanks timma.....it maybe upgraded later this year. I keep blowing my cash on things unebike related (new sammy 50" 1080 plasma) but I have made headway towards getting somewhere.

So just a quick update......I jumped in and bought 2 Hyperion eoi1210i chargers off the ebay seller, from Matts recommendation. Also 16x 5ah 6s turnigys are ordered along with 4x cell monitors (1 per 4parralell 8) during discharge) and a bunch of connectors to suit turnigys ballance and discharge points to create my loom all from Hobby king. 2 sets of Echo cranks and some rear wheel chain adjusters on order from a local(aussy) guy.

things left is....
- 2 x Matts twin V3!!!!!! drive (ps how freaking cool does the chain/belt enclosure look) with 3220's and frame clamps
- 4 x HV160
- 2 x Magura throttle (Matt can you supply this?)
- 2 x Evologix throttlizer (Do i need a custom High Current one, What kind of current draw do you think this setup will see)
- 2 x 22Tooth ENO for crankset ( Matt do/can you stock/supply this???)
- 2 x some form of adaptor from freehub to 110mm bcd chain ring and matts recommended chainring to suit turn of motors used to make 40-50mph limited on 26" wheel
- some fresh sets of underwear.

ps yes I am making 2 bikes, I will take a picture of both together tomorrow night.

 

[recumpence]

I can supply the WI freewheels for you. What I do is search ebay and other sources for the best price. They fluctuate a bit.

So, you will need four 3220s and two twin motor drives? I can set you up there, no problem. I can get you the HV160 controllers as well. The EV logix boards are not something I deal with. I have heard they work well, though.

Anyway, let me know when you want to order. Astro is still paying catch-up from the 40 motors I have ordered from them over the last 2 months. I also need to do some reprogramming for case mounting and outboard bearing supports on the twin motor drives.

Matt

 

[AussieJester]

::looks up yellow pages for Haul Pac driver training courses::

I wanna be a CUB too so i can affordz builds like this hahaha

All the best with it mate this will be a ball tearer... hrmz..i wonder if it
might inspire the great one Mr Recumpence SiR to build that mtb
build he has been putting off hrmz..what ya think Matt ?
cant be outdone by an Aussie mate :: nudges Matt ::
can you mate? hehe I'm guessing the ol bank account will need
to replenish somewhat after the epic build that is your yellow trike
first though...Seen that effort yet rodgah :: druuuel::
he sees your 2X 3220s and raises you two 3215s ontop of that LoL
Thought about making one of these builds AWD rodgah

KiM

 

[rodgah]

hahaha @ jester. To be honest I have not earnt that much money in the last year working in town. Just have not bought much and little overheads. Yes if this build fills my expectations the next step will be migrating this drive to a lowrider chopper frame think http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/046/d2d/046d2dde-7616-4257-86da-ba4d888dd48c and then (awaiting results of matts hornet/bullet) making my own light weight dirtbike with 40-50ah of lipo and i dunno 4 astros? hahaha the sky is the limit. If you know anyone that could give me a step in job over in WA I would be happy to move, they dont want to know me coz im not already living there.

Matt yes I will need...
4 x 3220s
4 x HV160s
2 x drives with chain enclosures bearing supports and frame clamps in black no special engraving
2 x ENO on the output of the drives for RHS chain drive parralell same as your PK
2 x 22tooth ENO for cranks
2 x 110bcd chainring at a tooth count you can recommend for 40-50mph 26" wheel
2 x Magura throttles

Can you please PM me with an itemised price list, availability, lead time and payment methods.