First build

[rodgah]

Thumbs up! rodger.

Now you & kim throw your bikes on a wet bound steamer & Join us for a little Action in Tuscon...

looks like a ton-O-fun.

thanks Thud,

wish I could, I would love to.

Wild, absolutely wild. Now you see what I mean when I say "It will be wildly insane!"

I bet this thing would be cool on an oval track.

I wonder how fast it will go, anyway? Hmm, what is Doc's world record, 100kph? I bet you could SMASH it without much effort.

Matt

Wild it is,
I have a little loop near home that nearly is an oval track....as in nascar style, still have to brake for the corners though. Considering it still wheelstands from 75 to 80km/h without any trouble im sure 120-140 even more wouldnt be a struggle, I dont know if the HV160s would like it too much though. Im still trying to convince people that look at it that the motors do NOT labour, there is no such thing, its like you say.....as soon as you set a new throttle position, the motors just take that new rpm instantly and everything else just has to catch up.



Actually that brings me to another thing i was thinking. I am not sure how the throttleizer worked, but I was wondering if someone could come up with a throttle ramping module. I have no idea on electronics but I gather it would be possible considering some of the things these gurus do. Something so no matter how quick you open the throttle, the signal sent to the escs is always at the same ramp. Kind of like a traction control/wheelie control. Since I have to ride it like that anyway (reallly steady on the throttle) I see no reason why this would cause any problems with escs etc etc. Maybe even modes, with baby mode, on the edge mode, and unlimited. That is the only way I can think that would make this thing more rideable but still be blistering.

Rodger

 

[recumpence]

Rodger,

You can program the HV160 throttle response. If you set it for "0", you will have about 3/4 second delay. However, I do not like the mushy feel of it.

If you do use that, make sure both controllers are set exactly the same.

Matt

 

[rodgah]

is that 3/4 of a second from zero rpm to top rpm. If so thats what im talking about, slow down the rate at which the motors can accelerate, but I would need around 5 seconds or so to make it idiot proof.

 

[AussieJester]

is that 3/4 of a second from zero rpm to top rpm. If so thats what im talking about, slow down the rate at which the motors can accelerate, but I would need around 5 seconds or so to make it idiot proof.

Pretty sure its 3-4 seconds from when you turn throttle to when the power is applied.

Woke up late this morning missed my off peak ISP time capped in Peak so still haven't got to watch video :-(

KiM

EDiT: fiiinally loaded video was worth the wait, looks like your on a freakin 600 sports bike Rodgah
if we can get you the throttle control necessary for controlled power monos this thing will be freakin nuts
...wait...it is nuts now...controllable nuts hehehe...thanks for making the effort to grab video buddy freakin sweet
....ThudSTaR 8) That go kart track in Tuscan doesn't have straights long enough to wind these high powered rc bikes up does it :lol: off to watch again hehee..

 

[rodgah]

Glad you liked it Kim,

just set the throttle response to 0 and it made no noticeable effect. 600? more like 1000!, 600 wont pull the front wheel up at 60km/h like that without a clutch. I have done a fair bit of riding around today, and man I NEED a faster charger. 2.5amps is like watching super slow drying paint . it 'is' controllable 'if' you had a bionic arm able to make such small increments.....but this boso needs some throttle ramping.

Cheers

 

[neuraxon77]

Does anyone know if the Magura electric throttle pots are linear or logarithmic? If linear then changing to a logarithmic may help...

 

[recumpence]

After a while, you do get used to it, believe it or not.

I have to tell you, NO-ONE ever believes how much freakin torque these little motors have until they take a blast on one.

Now, picture twice that power in a low vehicle that is not prone to wheelie, and you have an idea of what my yellow trike was like to ride. Then you can understand why I went down to one motor and a slipper clutch.

Anyway, I want to see what this thing will do wound all the way out!

Oh, also, when I ran 1/2 that much power in my BMX bike, I could lay on the handlebars with all my weight and it would still wheelie violently. In fact, it wheelied so hard, it knocked the wind out of me the first time I tried holding the front end down by laying on the bars.

Matt

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Matt, out of curiosity (and at the slight risk of veering off-topic) have you ever thought of using a set up like Rodgah's on a small, lightweight, motorcycle? I'm contemplating doing something similar, but using a couple of sensored motors and my own controllers. I can't help but think that a more controllable set up like Rodgah's might work well on a lightweight trials-type motorcycle.

Jeremy

 

[gwhy!]

The little motors ( the ones Im using 3250w turnigy's) will have the power for a light weight motorcycle so Im sure the astros will, The bigger turnigy at 3kw do not flinch pushing my scooter project along and that is around 80-90kg in weight, I dont know why more peeps are not looking at these little motors to power motorcycles but I sposes there have always been the problem with controllers for them but now the controller issues are slowly becoming a thing of the past thanks to a lot of work by members on this forum.

 

[rodgah]

Anyway, I want to see what this thing will do wound all the way out!

what do you want me to do? gear it up so it can do 200km/h? as the gear ratio i have right now I came pretty close to doing 80km/h in that video and thats about its limit

Matt, out of curiosity (and at the slight risk of veering off-topic) have you ever thought of using a set up like Rodgah's on a small, lightweight, motorcycle? I'm contemplating doing something similar, but using a couple of sensored motors and my own controllers. I can't help but think that a more controllable set up like Rodgah's might work well on a lightweight trials-type motorcycle.

Jeremy

I think you could quite easily make a light weight mx bike out of these motors (given the right controller). I have strapped 2 x 1litre bottles of water to the fork legs to try and simulate what extending the wheelbase would do, but it made no noticeable difference. I think you could throw away 10-15 kgs in extra weight and still not notice anything.

Does anyone know if the Magura electric throttle pots are linear or logarithmic? If linear then changing to a logarithmic may help...

Magura is linear but I doubt a logarithmic curve would make it any more rideable, the last 30% would be a killer.

Cheers

 

[deecanio]

Scarey to ride, and I consider that Ive had enough experience to know how to ride, I can just imagine how someone that doesnt know how to ride a powerfull dirtbike or 1000cc roadbike would end up on it :?.Cheers

i can

lol, that is way too fast, twin 3220's i can't even ride one lol
The throttle modulation is a bummer, you shouldn't end up on your ass for a 3-5mm throttle increment, maybe Matts slipper clutch is the only answer?


D

 

[adrian_sm]

I have a something that may be a temporary solution for the throttle modulation from my ebike developement that is on the other end of the power spectrum. It is a little device that controls the ramp rate of the throttle signal with nice little adjustment pots for how quickly it ramps. I use it to smooth out the engagement of my friciton drive, but you might be able to use it so that you don't require such a bionic arm.

The $8 Turnigy 3 Channel Servo Speed/Direction Regulator

BTW the bike looks wild. Stay safe.

- Adrian

 

[rodgah]

Scarey to ride, and I consider that Ive had enough experience to know how to ride, I can just imagine how someone that doesnt know how to ride a powerfull dirtbike or 1000cc roadbike would end up on it :?.Cheers

i can

lol, that is way too fast, twin 3220's i can't even ride one lol
The throttle modulation is a bummer, you shouldn't end up on your ass for a 3-5mm throttle increment, maybe Matts slipper clutch is the only answer?


D

haha Funny you should mention one being a handfull. I tried one (removed the belt connecting the motors, even though Matt told me not to(yes you should'nt and ill tell you why)) and it did tame it down a lot I must admit, still plenty enough to shoot the front wheel into the air, but for the first time I felt like I wasnt going to flip at any moment. Problem was, either the gear ratio is too tall or 5t astros are a little too much or a bit of both, so the poor little hv160 seen some mega temperature build up. That much infact I think the data logging stopped working. And I felt surging when giving it its all which i can only imagine is its current limiting kicking in. I quickly let it cool off and put the belt back on, once the belt was back on everything ran as normal, after 10mins thrashing the motors are a little warm and the controllers the same and even (data logging tells me a max of around 60degC) on both controllers, so hopefully i didnt cook one too much.

I have a something that may be a temporary solution for the throttle modulation from my ebike developement that is on the other end of the power spectrum. It is a little device that controls the ramp rate of the throttle signal with nice little adjustment pots for how quickly it ramps. I use it to smooth out the engagement of my friciton drive, but you might be able to use it so that you don't require such a bionic arm.

The $8 Turnigy 3 Channel Servo Speed/Direction Regulator

BTW the bike looks wild. Stay safe.

- Adrian

That is EXACTLY the thing i was looking for, BUT on closer inspection of youtube videos it seems as though it lags a little in operation. For instance : if you were to power on which lifts the front wheel, and back off, the esc is still getting told to keep that ramp up for maybe 0.25 to 0.5 seconds before backing off....which when on the edge like that could be really dangerous. I could be wrong but that is what it looks like, I would be really interested to find out if this is the case. Do you have one in your posession adrian?

Went down the park today to try and get some footage of jumping it and fast action on the grass. Unfortunately its been raining for months here and 1 day of sunshine just isn't going to dry the grass out enough to not eat mud. So we changed locations to a new sub-division and rode around in circles. Heres some footage.

[youtube]Khr2tfEc06M[/youtube]

I think the days might be numbered on free hub #2. I heard a definite twang, and it looks a little looser than it should be, the good news is my mate will not ride his as hard as I do so his equipment may never die. Atleast it is a serviceable part to exchange each time i suppose.

enjoy

Rodger

 

[adrian_sm]

That is EXACTLY the thing i was looking for, BUT on closer inspection of youtube videos it seems as though it lags a little in operation. For instance : if you were to power on which lifts the front wheel, and back off, the esc is still getting told to keep that ramp up for maybe 0.25 to 0.5 seconds before backing off....which when on the edge like that could be really dangerous. I could be wrong but that is what it looks like, I would be really interested to find out if this is the case. Do you have one in your posession adrian?

Yep I have one, but I did not use it in any of my videos. So any lags you see in my videos is likely due to my very cheap dodgy camera, or slow throttle control with my thumb throttle. Remember the ramp rates are fully adjustable, so if it is too slow in response, just speed it up.

I think it will be just the ticket for now, longer terms there are probably better solutions that will allow faster ramp rates, when torque drops off.

Adrian

 

[rodgah]

I am talking about this video ...
[youtube]gyQIzej8X2w[/youtube]

at around 4:11-4:12 you will see him change directions but it seems to lag a fraction in direction changes, but it may be because he upped the backwards direction regulation lol. That would be my only concern. If you say yours works with no noticeable lag like that then I will order one, hell its only 8 bucks haha, and if it tames the thing down into a pussy cat imagine the tune-ability. Thanks Adrian for sharing.

Rodger

 

[adrian_sm]

No lag for me, but I certainly don't need the sort of throttle response you require. But as you say $8, can't go wrong.

I just did a few quick tests with mine. Going to 100% throttle, and back to 0% really quickly, just to make sure it respects the reduction in throttle, and it does. So It won't just keep happily ramping up to 100%, before letting thign down again.

Just buy one already. Here is the link again

- Adrian

 

[boostjuice]

'kn sweet vids. Im envious

Don't give up on freehubs just yet. It might be time to upgrade to a tougher hub that incorporates more synchronously engaging pawls than most cheap spline attachable/replacable freehub bodies (Shimano or otherwise) that can use as few as two pawls.

Stronger proprietary MTB hubs tend to feature deeper ratchet engagement points at a larger radius for improved torque handling - something like a Hope Pro 2 hub with four synchronous engagement pawls - or in the case of Industry nine hubs, multiple engagement points per pawl.

Way stronger than your ordinary Shimano compatible Freehub

.....That might end up looking like this with the torque your putting though it.

 

[gwhy!]

Hi rodgah,
Your bike is the business and I know what you mean about freehubs :wink: I have had a similar experience.
My next bike will have a fixed sprocket on the rear. I bought a screw on freewheel disk hub and what I intend to do is flip it round so the sprocket fits onto the disk side, you can get screw on disk adaptors that will allow a disk to be fitted to the thread of the screw on freewheel... (just a thought ). Also thinking about Your throttle problem,what about a 2 position switch to change the throttle resolution ( it do have its own set of problems but makes the throttle so much more controllable, like if you hit the switch before letting the throttle off :lol: ) Im using a sensored controller so this has it built it but it may be possible/easy to incorporate this function for a rc ESC. Some of the designs that I have seen that use a simple ramp circuit has the disadvantage of it also ramps down at the same rate as it ramps up i.e so there is a slight delay when you shut the throttle off ( which is not good :? )

Cheers.

 

[adrian_sm]

Some of the designs that I have seen that use a simple ramp circuit has the disadvantage of it also ramps down at the same rate as it ramps up i.e so there is a slight delay when you shut the throttle off ( which is not good :? )

Luckily the one I posted above has separate adjustments for ramp up and down. So no problem there.

 

[gwhy!]

Some of the designs that I have seen that use a simple ramp circuit has the disadvantage of it also ramps down at the same rate as it ramps up i.e so there is a slight delay when you shut the throttle off ( which is not good :? )

Luckily the one I posted above has separate adjustments for ramp up and down. So no problem there.

sounds good, this will make it so much more user friendly.

 

[StudEbiker]

Wow. I just found this thread. Crazy stuff man. Cool bike. Nice work. 8)

 

[rodgah]

hey people,

I got my little servo regulator in the mail, popped him on the bike. It definitely makes it more ride-able, it can be turned right down so it takes nearly 500m to make 80km/h or right up so its not noticeably there. I had a fiddle and got it to a point where it carry's the front wheel very lightly if at all on the road when I'm leaning over the front. An additional feature is being able to screw the throttle right open all the time without worrying about hammering the freewheels/freehub, as the rpm builds up slowly and engages nice and smoothly. There is one downside I have discovered in that there is a delay between opening the throttle (from dead stop) till when the motors start up. It isn't an issue if you don't let the motors stop but everytime you do you have to deal with the delay....video of delay

[youtube]pkKGybfLGs8[/youtube]

and a video of out riding it.....most of the acceleration is using 100% throttle here letting the regulator do its job. Some 80km/h in here too. Second day after cyclone hit the coast ~150 to 200kms north of us.....still a lot of cleaning up to do.

[youtube]tryRNoNB2LI[/youtube]

Cheers

 

[adrian_sm]

Wow, that delay is huge and sucks. I just went and tried out mine again, and the delay is maybe 1/4 of second. Small enough that I didn't really notice until I just checked it.

Just wondering if the length of the delay is related to the overall ramp rate you set. Mine will ramp from 0->100% in ~2 seconds, and has about a 0.25 sec delay.
Yours seems to ramp from up over ~5seconds, with about a 1 second delay.

 

[rodgah]

yeah its definitely related to the ramp rate. I think because the controller doesn't see 0% throttle as the start of its rev range that it takes a while to traverse to the spot at which the controller starts. It isn't a BIG deal however, you just have to be aware of it an not pull out in front of cars....kind of like remembering to pedal lol. In fact the smoothness that it comes on means that from a stand still i can just twist the throttle to 100%, push off at the same time and take off like i was riding a hub motor. If it weren't for the delay i would say it is a perfect fix for tune-ability.

 

[adrian_sm]

You should be able to tune the ESC to your throttle range. Check your manual, but with mine it is something like hold throttle @ 100%, turn on ESC, listen for two beeps, set throttle to 0%, more beeps, done. Then it uses the full range of your throttle signal. Or I think Aussie_Jester cracked open his Magura and physically rotated gears, pots etc to get rid of dead spots.

Anyway glad it is helping you tame the beast.