Folding bike to ebike conversion.

[Fishstalker]

Hey all, im thinking of buying a folding bike and converting it to an ebike by using an ebike kit.
Problem is i live in australia and all they have here in terms of bikes are dahons, some giants and some progears.
Do you guys think these will be good for converting to an ebike? im talking commuting on sidewalks and some roads for about 9 miles per session.
My budget for the bike its self is about 500 dollars so im not sure how good a bike i can get with that , i heard a folding bike with no suspension would get owned if converted to electric due
to the forces that get applied to it. (24v 200w motor in case you guys needed to know).

So yeah if anyone can give me some gems of wisdom or advice, or if anyones done what im planning to do could give me suggestions id greatly appreciate it.

Happy riding all, thanks.

 

[spike]

Hi Fishstalker

Just to give you a start, since no other fish took the bait...
I ran a Dahon Matrix MTB folder with a Cyclone (bottom bracket 500W) motor for about 6 months.
It was great for what I wanted at the time, good cadence, great on the hills, 24V 20AH (light weight) battery etc.
The only reason I switched to a hub was the noise of the gear box. That can be over come with a hub or a by a Greenhill type setup if it bothers you.
I found the bike to be a pretty good all-rounder. It's easy to fold/snap back together, & fits into the boot of most hatch backs pretty easily.

HTH

Spike

 

[Drunkskunk]

Same project I'm looking at doing, and I'm finding the older steel Dahons may be better than the new aluminum framed ones for converting.

But thats me, I'm also looking at building a 700 watt all wheel drive version. 200 watts shouldn't stress anything too much.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Same project I'm looking at doing, and I'm finding the older steel Dahons may be better than the new aluminum framed ones for converting.

But thats me, I'm also looking at building a 700 watt all wheel drive version. 200 watts shouldn't stress anything too much.

Drunkskunk, are there older steel-frame Dahons with 26" wheels? I've seen plenty of the scooter-looking ones, but how about real bikes?

BTW, don't the new aluminum-frame ones, have steel dropouts? As I understand it, that's where the mechanical failures usually occur in ebikes.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Haven't seen many 26" folders, other than the paratrooper bikes.
As for dropouts, an aluminum fork is bad. you'll want one with a steel fork if you plan to put the motor on the front.
For the rear, aluminum is usualy fine as the dropouts are built heavier, but you'll still want to use a steel torque arm.

 

[mwkeefer]

Hmmm...

From experience you can put a hub motor on a folder with alloy forks or frame, just be certain to use a proper torque arm (or pair) that prevent ANY motion within the dropout... even a slight amount of slack will cause issues with forming cracks in the dropout cavity.

I have successfully installed 9c front and rear on downtube.com 9fs, 9h and soon a nova - I have also converted a Caynne Rambler (2 actually) and an old... 20" dahon folder (steel frame).

My favorite bike right now (not my fastest by far) is my 9FS with a single speed freewheel in rear on a 9C RH205 which @ 63v gets me around 30mph (27-29 really) quite fast enough for a folder and the weight is perfect for taking on the train and such.

For the record the only alloy folding forks I've used with front hubs are the swift brand with I believe 50mm of travel in the suspension and I did use torque arms on both sides of the axle which I had also modified (the torque arms) to reduce the inner clearance from 10mm to 9.95 as my axle lands were actually 9.94mm... so .01mm of clearance (I used JB weld inside the torque arm to act as Filler after coating the threads on the axle and all surrounding parts with CHAP STICK, basically I installed the torque arms then pushed like you would wall spackle or grout the JB weld into the clearance between the axle lands and the torque arm then bolted it together - the following day I had a 100% no movement torque arm on each side of the Swift alloy fork). This may not be needed really... being a folder, therfore less rigid I wasn't taking chances on a front hub install (especially since everyone cautioned against it - even Yan from downtube) - then again, if I recall... when I did my 2003 specialized with a front hub on the alloy fork - this wasn't recommended either and for many caused broken drop outs... not me, I must have > 1000mi on the specialized (about 250 on the 9FS front hub install, 350 on the 9FS rear hub install) and I haven't had .01mm of movement within my dropouts.

When I hit the 1500 mile mark... I will be pulling my forks (on all the test bikes with front hubs) and having them tested for micro cracks and other signs of possible impending doom. I don't remember the name of the equipment but it's used by the speed shop to test for stress fractures (micro) within automotive engine heads, blocks, rods, etc... this makes it perfect for analyzing the alloy forks (aluminum and magnesium) and should confirm what my contact paper and micrometer readings (daily) have show - 0 movement = 0 fracture.

Hope this helps!

-Mike

 

[Fishstalker]

Thanks for the feedback guys, greatly appreciated. I think my choices of bikes are slowly narrowing down based on the materials that the bike needs to be made out of.
I will probably settle for a dahon of some sort as downtubes arent available in australia =(. Also im still deciding whether to put the hub motor in the front or back, im thinking if i put it in the front i could put foot pegs at the back and my girlfriend could hop on for 1 or 2 mile rides haha . Im just worried that the fork widths on dahons arent wide enough to accomodate a hub motor. Anyone know much about the newer dahons? The one im paying particular attention to is the dahon speed d7 as it is made out of a chromoly steel alloy with forged dropouts and fork, i think that has sufficient strength
and its a pretty good price too.

 

[monster]

i heard a folding bike with no suspension would get owned if converted to electric due
to the forces that get applied to it. (24v 200w motor in case you guys needed to know).

thats rubish. i've converted a folding bike and they are just fine for electrification. make sure you buy a steel one tho. i have run an X5 crystalyte on mine 2000W. in fact, suspension is the last thing you want on a folding bike conversion. the batteries can only fit on the rear rack because of the fold. if you have suspension you introduce a pivot point in the bike. because of play in the joint there you will find that the two halves of the bike wobble side to side independantly. Not nice to ride! i wish i didn't have rear suspension on my folding bike.

 

[Fishstalker]

You bring up a good point there, but i think the play is only pronounced if the motor is powerful, like your 2000w motor (which by the way sounds like awesome fun! )
But it doesnt really matter now because theres no suspension folding bikes in aus that dont cost over 1000 dollars
My real big hugeass problem is finding a bike with a fork that can take a hub motor, dahons are way too small! Anyone had experience with those progear folding bikes? theyre fairly common here in australia and i might get one of those instead if the fork will fit the motor.
Otherwise is it possible to change the fork on a dahon bike? :?

 

[Drunkskunk]

I looked up Progear. its an Australian only company. The Folding progear city looks like a Downtube Nova, but with a different latch. Probably the frames come from the same Chinese factory.

 

[monster]

fork? you mean rear dropout? i hope your not going to use a front hub motor.

any frame will accept a hub motor, just bend it! you can bend a steel frame by 20mm easy. even a short 20" folding bike frame. i did with mine. the chainstays are at an angle of like 30* !

just buy the cheapest folding bike you can find. avoid suspension. aim for disc brakes.

 

[deardancer3]

The stock small frame 20" wheel folders can be a hard riding mount with motor and batteries..

My wife did a 30 miler on a stock e-folder and it was pretty bone jarring.

Better tires, better handgrips, better seat-- all helped out quite a bit, but increased the cost $ . Next would be a "Thudbuster" extended length $$.

Maybe could soften the spoke tension. Part of the problem was the new Gen 4 20" Bionx hub motor is radially spoked.

For lengthy rides, an e-folder with no suspension can be a hard ride. Save some $$ for softening it up.

just my 2 watts worth.
d

 

[Fishstalker]

Hmm bending the fork you say? wouldnt that be a bit risky? I was thinking of getting an el cheapo folding bike before but i found that most are made out of aluminium, not even the 7000 kind but the 6000 series . The cheapest folder that was steel i could find was the dahon speed d7 and well thats going at about 600 aussie dollars!! . Do you think aluminium folders can be bent? How i wish i could just get a downtube 9 fs =( its cheap and with suspension and i heard you can fit a rear hub motor on it with like 5mm of bending but not available in australia . By the way, why not put a hub motor on the front?

 

[StridaHope]

I've been converting an Abio Penza using bits from a Conhis (i.e. Golden Motor rebadged) kit, and the Wuxing parts that ship with Worldwide Electric's Fusin kits. (I love the headlights and the throttle).

I am using the rocker switch on the throttle to enable/disable regen and enable the calibration mode (needed to find a use for the last setting xD)

I am adding turn signals controlled by a switch on the left. Controller is the regen controller that Conhis/GoldenMotor ships (not the GM "Magic" controller).

Torque arms built by me from U-bracket endpieces and mending brackets from Ace Hardware. They attach to the fender mounts.

I really like using a shaft-drive bike for the e-bike mod. Completely clean with no grease or catching of pantlegs, and the 5% or so loss from the shaft drive is insignificant when you have motor assist that more than makes up for it.

You can see the work in progress (from a while ago) at the Abio blog. http://www.abiobikes.com/blog/

Those pictures have none of the wiring done. I've selected some molex-alike connectors (what Radio Shack had at the time) to standardize my personal throttle adapters so I can mix and match between kits. Will be doing the same with my motor control adapters. It's coming out nicely although the RPM on the motor is a bit low for the 20" wheels -- I wish it had fewer windings.

 

[USAEBIKECO]

How is the izip ezgo? Anyone have any experience with that bike?

 

[mwkeefer]

Hmm bending the fork you say? wouldnt that be a bit risky? I was thinking of getting an el cheapo folding bike before but i found that most are made out of aluminium, not even the 7000 kind but the 6000 series . The cheapest folder that was steel i could find was the dahon speed d7 and well thats going at about 600 aussie dollars!! . Do you think aluminium folders can be bent? How i wish i could just get a downtube 9 fs =( its cheap and with suspension and i heard you can fit a rear hub motor on it with like 5mm of bending but not available in australia . By the way, why not put a hub motor on the front?

Im sure you could get a downtube FS in australia... just might cost a penny for shipping... I could even help out, I'm going to downtube this week to see what they have in photo shoot stock for discount sale... It would be easier to get a boxxed unit for shipping.

That said... I don't think putting a tiny UK/AU powered motor on the stock front suspension fork (50mm) is a big deal... I have plans to do just that.

BTW: My rear is currently configured as a single speed (I had a 6spd on, but I'm having a custom freewheel made up with better gearing for me) but I manage to fit a disc and a 6spd into the rear dropout with a single mm of bendout. Torque arms are a MANDATORY!!!

Also.. when mounting dd rear onto such a light bike... I mount power under main forward folding tube (doens't mess with the folding) to keep the distribution even

Finally, upgrade to DISC brakes front and rear to complete = )_

-Mike

 

[Jaybird]

Hi

Another Dahon folder worth considering for a front wheel motor is the 2007 Cadenza 26 inch wheel s it has Chromoly steel front forks although the rest of the frame is aluminium, only the 2007 model cadenza though, after 2007 the Cadenza's all have aluminium forks, the 2009 Dahon Speed D 7 20 inch wheel folder is chromoly steel frame and forks so you can fit a motor to the front or rear the strange thing is it is the lowest priced Dahon folder and the strongest of them, I got a brand new one from Fudges Cycle Store London for £249 end of year clear out, perfect for my little commuter conversion, be careful if buying a Dahon some of the other speed models have a steel frame but the forks are aluminium or vice versa on other models.( bring a magnet when buying second hand)

Cadenza - http://www.dahon.com/archive/2007/intl/cadenza.htm

 

[jkt]

Fishtalker,

I converted my Dahon folding bike (chromoly steel frame) about a year ago:

Dahon Speed D7 folding bike 20" wheels
eZee rear motor (high RPM version)
Crystalyte 36-72V 35A controller
Ping 48V 15Ah v2.5 LiFePO4 battery
Top speed without pedaling: 26.4 mph

 

[Toango]

Hmmm...



For the record the only alloy folding forks I've used with front hubs are the swift brand with I believe 50mm of travel in the suspension and I did use torque arms on both sides of the axle which I had also modified (the torque arms) to reduce the inner clearance from 10mm to 9.95 as my axle lands were actually 9.94mm... so .01mm of clearance (I used JB weld inside the torque arm to act as Filler after coating the threads on the axle and all surrounding parts with CHAP STICK, basically I installed the torque arms then pushed like you would wall spackle or grout the JB weld into the clearance between the axle lands and the torque arm then bolted it together - the following day I had a 100% no movement torque arm on each side of the Swift alloy fork). This may not be needed really... being a folder, therfore less rigid I wasn't taking chances on a front hub install (especially since everyone cautioned against it - even Yan from downtube) - then again, if I recall... when I did my 2003 specialized with a front hub on the alloy fork - this wasn't recommended either and for many caused broken drop outs... not me, I must have > 1000mi on the specialized (about 250 on the 9FS front hub install, 350 on the 9FS rear hub install) and I haven't had .01mm of movement within my dropouts.

When I hit the 1500 mile mark... I will be pulling my forks (on all the test bikes with front hubs) and having them tested for micro cracks and other signs of possible impending doom. I don't remember the name of the equipment but it's used by the speed shop to test for stress fractures (micro) within automotive engine heads, blocks, rods, etc... this makes it perfect for analyzing the alloy forks (aluminum and magnesium) and should confirm what my contact paper and micrometer readings (daily) have show - 0 movement = 0 fracture.

Hope this helps!

-Mike

Hi Mike,

Im in the process of converting my downtube nova with a front geared hub and was wondering if you can provide some pictures on the torque arm you modified. I too am scared about the danger involved. It would be good to know how durable it is now that it has been at least two years since this post.

 

[Toango]

Also.. when mounting dd rear onto such a light bike... I mount power under main forward folding tube (doens't mess with the folding) to keep the distribution even

Finally, upgrade to DISC brakes front and rear to complete = )_

-Mike

This sound like an ideal setup. I would love to see this! Would it be possible to provide pictures please?

 

[jonathan75]

Hmmm...

Hi Mike, I'm looking to convert a Dahon Jack or Espresso, and noticed after websearching, that your signature says you've converted a Jack. Can I ask how you mounted the battery, did you drill the downtube by the pedals? It doesn't come with a mount which would fit a bottle battery.

Thanks

Jonathan

 

[MattyCiii]

My Dahon is Aluminum.

Probably have well over 5k miles on it at high power/speed. The stock front suspension couldn't handle the loads but the frame is still in top shape.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39928

 

[BobTheBuilder]

My cousin just paid $1,100 for a 48v 9ah, front geared hub motor installed on her Dahon. She rides 24 miles round trip to work, 5 days a week. Plugs in when she gets home at night. It's no problem carrying it up three flights of stairs each morning and night. It's hard to believe the performance and power coming from such a tiny kit. Top speed is 30mph on the 20 inch wheel. I hope this pic helps.