Folding Bikes: Full suspension + under 24"

[andrebandre]

double post

 

[andrebandre]

I'll make twist and go for the folding 20" fatty. TBH half the reason i want FS it is for winter riding. I'll try and get a front fork on it too. haters be damned. The bike looks cool and its got some squish.

Lil fatty looks killer to me and seems capable enough from the vid. I don't think you can go wrong with it and it seems to me very competitively priced. The only downside could be spares if something gives.

 

[downtube]

The "downtube p8" is so cheap it will probably just fall apart after i hit a couple speed bumps. It doesnt even deserve to be at the top of the thread, even if I have to put the Junma 20" there instead.

Really??? Please clarify your logic. I introduced this bike in 2005 and it has been our best selling frame for the past 10 years. We have sold thousands and I think I have had one warranty claim ( in a decade ). Clearly you must know something I don't.

Thanks,
Yan

 

[Chalo]

I introduced this bike in 2005 and it has been our best selling frame for the past 10 years. We have sold thousands and I think I have had one warranty claim ( in a decade ).

In my observation, the vast majority of folding bikes are used to take up space in a car trunk or a closet. Such use does not result in frequent warranty claims.

 

[downtube]

I introduced this bike in 2005 and it has been our best selling frame for the past 10 years. We have sold thousands and I think I have had one warranty claim ( in a decade ).

In my observation, the vast majority of folding bikes are used to take up space in a car trunk or a closet. Such use does not result in frequent warranty claims.

So all our bikes are sitting in the back of cars? Interesting....

Thanks
Yan

 

[The Stig]

Really??? Please clarify your logic. I introduced this bike in 2005 and it has been our best selling frame for the past 10 years. We have sold thousands and I think I have had one warranty claim ( in a decade ). Clearly you must know something I don't.

Thanks,
Yan

Yes, sorry i was frustrated when i wrote that post so I exaggerated. As you can see i didnt take the 8fs out of the original post. I will rewrite the comment in a fairer way

Welcome to the forum and thank you for chiming in. I was basing my reliability and toughnes expectations on personal experiences with that type folding joint and am not familiar with that model of front fork. I was also thinking along the lines of what chalo usually says about folding joints creeking or not being very stiff or needing maintenance. I know he can be a bit of purist / minimalist some times... I would be open and happy to seeing any reviews/stats/info produced by a third party, that you might have on the 8fs.

 

[The Stig]

...TBH half the reason i want FS is for winter riding. I'll try and get a front fork on it too. haters be damned. The bike looks cool and its got some squish.

Lil fatty looks killer to me and seems capable enough from the vid. I don't think you can go wrong with it and it seems to me very competitively priced. The only downside could be spares if something gives.

Thanks andre! Im hoping to test ride it over the next few days while im in paris. I also want to check out the folding joint because thats the same type of joint we've been questioning in this thread. Only less suspension, hence greater forces on the joint i think. Only other downside is it almost definately comes with junk cells as almost all low-end ebikes seem to come. (Go ahead, somebody prove me wrong). So i'd have to get it with no battery / empty battery case.

 

[craneplaneguy]

My "little fatty" Trail Viper exhibits great frame stiffness to date, the folding handlebars take a little getting used to however as they have a bit of play. No big deal, it's all a trade off, and for my application the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

 

[The Stig]

CPG, Good to know! And now Im thinking Lil fatty should be the offical ES designation for this bike / type of bike; folding 20" fattys. ive noticed the play in headtube joint in a couple folders, its a bit scary but can be ignored, once used to it yes. I expect the type of HT joint the downtube 8fs has would not have this problem.

BTW it would be great to get some info on how the battery does while under power. Woulld hooking up a volt meter to the battery be something you would ever consider doing? Or does your lil fatty have a display that shows "v" / volts?

 

[craneplaneguy]

No volts display, just the cartoonish looking battery icon, showing percent of charge. Being new to E- bikes I am fumbling my way along. I do know batteries though, at least large lead acid types used in renewable energy systems, and know that voltage indications under load (or under charge) are just the start of the story. No surprise then that I've noticed that while riding it will tell me I am quite low on capacity, and then once parked and not under load the same icon shows all is well. I obvously need more info!

 

[downtube]

I was basing my reliability and toughnes expectations on personal experiences with that type folding joint and am not familiar with that model of front fork. I was also thinking along the lines of what chalo usually says about folding joints creeking or not being very stiff or needing maintenance. I know he can be a bit of purist / minimalist some times... I would be open and happy to seeing any reviews/stats/info produced by a third party, that you might have on the 8fs.

Our bikes are the stiffest you will find ( in the horizontal plane) the suspension is very soft in the vertical direction. Our folding joint is one of the largest you will find on any folding bike. Creeking is not normal on any folding bike, I expect it is a product of metal on metal contact without lubrication ( all metal on metal contacts on bicycles need to be lubricated ). I don't think any serious folding bike brands have issues with creeking....am I incorrect?

I created a video on the 9FS, which is a heavily upgraded 8FS ( same frame/fork as the 8FS ). The video can be viewed at https://youtu.be/OLUF9ZxHIJ0 .

Thanks,
Yan

 

[Chalo]

Our bikes are the stiffest you will find ( in the horizontal plane) the suspension is very soft in the vertical direction. Our folding joint is one of the largest you will find on any folding bike. Creeking is not normal on any folding bike, I expect it is a product of metal on metal contact without lubrication ( all metal on metal contacts on bicycles need to be lubricated ). I don't think any serious folding bike brands have issues with creeking....am I incorrect?

In my observation of having serviced almost all the recognizable brand folders at one time or another, they all make a racket. Some are quieter, like the better designs from Montague and Fuji. But they all do it. (For what it's worth, I've worked on more Dahons than everything else combined.) The noisiest one i ever saw was a Bickerton, with Birdy a close second. Yes, they could probably be lubricated until quiet for a short time, in the same way that my squeaky Brooks saddle with multiple springs can be oiled at points of contact to shut it up for a ride at a time.

But folding bike owners don't even lube their chains, let alone anything else. Why would they? Lubing their bikes' chains would mess up their cars' trunks.

Anyway, Downtube bikes use the same kind of joint as most of the cheap and noisy folders of the last 50 years. Making the joint a little bigger does not make it categorically different.

If I wanted to make a bike fold using a hinge in the middle of the boom tube (an inherently bad idea), I'd incorporate a Hirth coupling in the hinge faces instead of relying only on the hinge pin and closing bolt for torsional strength.

 

[downtube]

In my observation of having serviced almost all the recognizable brand folders at one time or another, they all make a racket. Some are quieter, like the better designs from Montague and Fuji. But they all do it. (For what it's worth, I've worked on more Dahons than everything else combined.) The noisiest one i ever saw was a Bickerton, with Birdy a close second. Yes, they could probably be lubricated until quiet for a short time, in the same way that my squeaky Brooks saddle with multiple springs can be oiled at points of contact to shut it up for a ride at a time.

But folding bike owners don't even lube their chains, let alone anything else. Why would they? Lubing their bikes' chains would mess up their cars' trunks.

Anyway, Downtube bikes use the same kind of joint as most of the cheap and noisy folders of the last 50 years. Making the joint a little bigger does not make it categorically different.

If I wanted to make a bike fold using a hinge in the middle of the boom tube (an inherently bad idea), I'd incorporate a Hirth coupling in the hinge faces instead of relying only on the hinge pin and closing bolt for torsional strength.

Folding bike owners don't lube their chains??? As if 'ALL folding bike owners don't lube chains?'...I guess all our bikes are in a trunk so no one ever rides them anyway. Please don't generalize for other people, there is not much I can say about everyone that will be true.

We use a heavy duty frame hinge on our full suspension bikes....it's not cheap ( unless you know better than me ), 50 years old you say??? I don't think that is accurate either. FYI folding bikes are about 150 years old ( see http://www.foldingcyclist.com/folding-bike-history.html ).

We were a Dahon dealer before we had our own folding bikes. I sold hundreds of Dahons and setup/tuned many of them myself. In 2003 I assembled each one of our VI bikes from our first 20' container ( 150 or so bikes ). I have also ridden almost every folding bike model at shows/events. I have a little experience on this topic, and I would agree that some folding bikes have squeaking issues. However as I mentioned before most squeaking can be removed by using lubrication....standard practice in the industry.

I agree that Montague are established as one of the toughest 26" wheel folding bikes, however in the 20" folding bike market I have yet to see anything tougher than our 8FS/9FS models. Let me know if you find something which you consider "tough".

Thanks,
Yan

 

[slacker]

Having owned a down tube 8fs and still own a Brompton I say bullshit on the they all make racket comment. The Brompton I commuted 30 miles a day mixed riding and bus. It is as quite as my catrike expedition. The down tube was a real solid ride that I put a 20 inch e-bike kit dd hub motor kit on.It sure was a rocket and a very fun ride. And I never put a folding bike in a trunk. Also where I live if you commute year round as I did if you do not lube chain it tends to get rusty fast, yes I lubed it often.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[The Stig]

Slacker, thanks for your input in the 8fs. So how did the suspension fork hold up?


Yan, the 9fs looks better than the 8fs in every way. I liked the longer travel of the fork on the 8fs, it was the main reason I was looking at a downtube. The 9fs fork does look tougher / maybe higher quality. Is the 8fs even available anymore?

 

[downtube]

An 8fs owner! Slacker, how is the suspension fork holding up?


Yan, the 9fs looks better than the 8fs in every way. I liked the longer travel of the fork on the 8fs, it was the main reason I was looking at a downtube. The 9fs fork does look tougher / maybe higher quality. Is the 8fs even available anymore?

The 8FS is a cheaper version of the 9FS. We just reintroduced it this year, it was last produced in 2008. The 9FS uses a lighter threadless fork/stem, while the 8FS has a threaded setup.

The new forks last much better than our 2008 and earlier models. The fork manufacturer recommends you disassemble and clean it yearly, most customers do well with a less frequent maintenance schedule.

Thanks,
Yan

 

[Toango]

Having owned a down tube 8fs and still own a Brompton I say bullshit on the they all make racket comment. The Brompton I commuted 30 miles a day mixed riding and bus. It is as quite as my catrike expedition. The down tube was a real solid ride that I put a 20 inch e-bike kit dd hub motor kit on.It sure was a rocket and a very fun ride. And I never put a folding bike in a trunk. Also where I live if you commute year round as I did if you do not lube chain it tends to get rusty fast, yes I lubed it often.
Just my 2 cents.

I would also have to agree with Slacker

I have a downtube nova which does not creek at all and had that for 4 years already which converted to an bike 3 years ago. very happy with downtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtTJsSwXxt0


also have a brompton and that does not creek as well.

what does creek is my dahon folder. their older models have really loose connections.

 

[puregsr]

Sorry, I must chime in. Always awkward with a seller here too.

I own a Downtube Nova. It is by no mean a high-end bike, given that it is the lowest in their lineup and very affordable. What I like about it is that it's light. Components are cheap and low-end. Gear range is laughable (46T and 14/28T). Stamped crank/arms, 7 speed freewheel, Chinese tires/wheels, wobbly extendable stem, and messy goopy welds. It's nothing fancy, but technology from last the century works. Expect what you would find at a big box store in East Asia, and you won't be disappointed. So it's neither a positive nor a negative review. You'll get your money's worth.
I replaced a bunch of parts on the bike to make it "good enough for me." I like riding it ... looking back, I'd buy it over other Chinese mass produced off brand folding bikes, but if I had a little more money ... hmm ...

Just checked out Yan's website again. Looks like business has been good and lots of new models. I know the dollar is strong right now, but dang, how do you get your price so low!! Certainly very tempting ...

 

[downtube]

Sorry, I must chime in. Always awkward with a seller here too.

If it is awkward for me to join I will happily leave.I have been active on bikeforums.net for 10+ years.

I own a Downtube Nova. It is by no mean a high-end bike, given that it is the lowest in their lineup and very affordable. What I like about it is that it's light. Stamped crank/arms. Expect what you would find at a big box store in East Asia, and you won't be disappointed. So it's neither a positive nor a negative review. You'll get your money's worth.

The Nova is my least favorite model, it is cheap in every way. However it is logically equivalent to the big box $500+ entry level models ( compared feature wise ) and it retails for $259! FYI our new Nova models have removable chainrings and many other improvements.

Just checked out Yan's website again. Looks like business has been good and lots of new models. I know the dollar is strong right now, but dang

Sales have doubled over the last year, and we were close to a fourfold increase in the second half of the year. We have many more models coming in late 2016. I am most excited about our kids bikes. Check out my kids riding at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZQNNjx_V4s

how do you get your price so low!! Certainly very tempting ...

I design, import, distribute, and retail all our models. I ship all the bikes in our NC facility ( we also have a PA warehouse ). I am also a full time professor and have worked as a professor for all but one year during my time with Downtube. As of the new year 1/1/16 the Downtube is a non-profit, we will donate all profits to charity.....I think we are unique in the industry.

Thanks,
Yan

 

[The Stig]

Personally im happy when sellers join the conversation. Some will feel awkward, I'm thinking most of us would feel totally fine about it.


AmIrite

 

[madin88]

@ downtube

i consider about using the 9FS frame for a folding e-bike and have some questions:

- whats the dropout width?
- width and thread size of the bottom bracket? because i would like to install a torque sensor like this: http://www.szbaf.com/en/components/component/sensor/sen-st01325.html
- do 1 1/8" forks fit and what are the dimensions of the headset?

thanks

 

[downtube]

Stig thanks for the welcome message!

- whats the dropout width?

100mm front and 135mm rear

- width and thread size of the bottom bracket?

we use 68mm english threaded 114mm BB on most of our bikes.

- do 1 1/8" forks fit and what are the dimensions of the headset?

We use 1 1/8" threadless on the 9FS, 1 1/8" threaded on the 8FS. The 9FS uses an integrated headset.

Thanks,
Yan