Friction drive outrunner setup. New DJ bike.

veloman said:
That's around 1500watts, very roughly.


Pretty damn good for a friction drive I'd say.
Click to expand...

I would be curious to see other people's 0-30 times. I'm so used to seeing 0-60 times for cars that I didn't really know how to interpret my time. I have always gone by how it feels instead of real numbers. I will say I can usually keep up with or out accelerate traffic in my neighborhood.
 
Damn, I really hate HobbyKing sometimes. I usually have pretty good luck with them but this last order I placed is starting to piss me off. I ordered a few parts over two weeks ago and paid almost $40.00 to have them shipped EMS Express. I logged on to their site today to track it and it shows that it was just given to the postal service today! WTF?!

Keep in mind that everything I ordered was in stock and they showed it as shipped 2 days after I placed the order. Great customer service.
 
EVTodd said:
Damn, I really hate HobbyKing sometimes. I usually have pretty good luck with them but this last order I placed is starting to piss me off. I ordered a few parts over two weeks ago and paid almost $40.00 to have them shipped EMS Express. I logged on to their site today to track it and it shows that it was just given to the postal service today! WTF?!

Keep in mind that everything I ordered was in stock and they showed it as shipped 2 days after I placed the order. Great customer service.
Click to expand...
If you ordered LiPo, then it has to be shipped from Singapore. No more 2Ah+ packs will be shipped from HK. :evil:
 
EVTodd said:
I would be curious to see other people's 0-30 times.
Click to expand...

Matt.P's 1000watt cyclone belt drive would do 30 foot (~10meters) in about 3 seconds
from standstil... 100meters in 10 flat. ...Would be slightly
quicker now hoewever he has bumped his speed controller from the 40ampish to 75amp.


Hope this helps :)

KiM
 
AussieJester said:
EVTodd said:
I would be curious to see other people's 0-30 times.
Click to expand...

Matt.P's 1000watt cyclone belt drive would do 30 foot (~10meters) in about 3 seconds
from standstil... 100meters in 10 flat. ...Would be slightly
quicker now hoewever he has bumped his speed controller from the 40ampish to 75amp.


Hope this helps :)

KiM
Click to expand...

It does but I guess I was a bit curious about average 0-30 times on average setups. I know there are going to be a huge variety of times with different voltages, etc... Heck, I realized my battery was a lot more discharged than I thought it was when I did my little test.
 
I'd like to copy this drive, the big hold-up for me (and others who are also interested) seems to be the difficult-to-source EV-Warrior roller.

There HAS to be a way to copy the freewheeling one-way clutch-bearing and drive-roller by finding compatible generic parts! Since the roller touching the tire is a vital part of how the drive functions (but easily freewheeling at idle with no drag), this is the missing link. Once the motor is energized, the roller pulls itself deeper onto the tire tread.

CSK-PP one-way clutch-bearings have a keyway on both the ID and OD, so if its possible to use them (in their available sizes), there would be no slippage between the shaft and roller. I'd also very much like to find a combination of parts that would allow a removable sleeve to be used over the roller. Certainly not a requirement, but a very desireable addition if possible.

I am not losing my enthusiasm for Keplers drive. I want one, and I want to sell them to the midwest US (until he finds an established dealer he prefers). But quite honestly he needs no development help from me, his drive is fantastic as it currently sits.

Eventually, fuel prices will spike up again (how soon, how high, and for how long...who knows?) but when that does happen, I am absolutely certain that hub-kits (made in China) will be sold-out and unavailable (just as they were recently when US gasoline hit $4/gal). I foresee a boom in non-hub drives that can be cobbled together from locally produced or sourced parts.

Specifically,...Keplers drive, EVTodds drive, Matts RC-drives, and Left Side Drives (LSD) similar to dontsendbubbamail and Peltzer (which can easily accept a wide variety of available motors). If the high fuel prices mean a downturn in the national economy, I suspect RC motor suppliers will be selling fewer motors to RC plane/car/heli enthusiasts, so just as Chinese hub motors become less available, RC motors should become more available.

Any help identifying parts that might work is appreciated, and I thank Todd for allowing me to post this here.
 
I'm going to go ahead and take one of my rollers apart and post pictures of it. There doesn't seem to be much to them. Just the roller, a couple of brass bearings, the clutch bearing, and the hardened shaft. I think the bearings are pressed into the roller without a keyway. I've always wondered how they made it so the clutch bearing doesn't slip under load. It must be a very tight fit or I'm missing something.
 
Todd, by putting the free-wheeling one-way clutch-bearing inside the roller, I feel it opens up several experimental opportunities for builders, so accomplishing this has a wider benefit than just copying only your drive. If someone wanted to mount a motor above the roller, and connect the two with an HTD toothed-belt/pulleys, torque/speed adjustments can be made by sourcing a different pulley set.

Also, a motor mounting above the roller opens up a lot of room to use larger motors. For instance, a budget build could use a TNC scooter motor, but after the builder saved up some money, he could upgrade to a smaller/lighter RC-motor/ESC/LiPo. Though I must admit that for myself, I much prefer your simpler direct mounting on the side.

If its possible to pull this together, I'd also like to end up with a drive that allows the motor to be mounted on the left, the right, the top, or with two motors.

I've worked several times with components that used an "interference fit". When both parts are at room temp, they would "just barely" not assemble. The inner part was refrigerated to shrink it, and the outer part was heated to expand. If they ever needed to be pulled apart after assembly, they had to be put on a press.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=17309&start=0
200777_143419.jpg


Available CSK-PP Inside Diameters (ID) and Outside Diameters (OD) in Millimeters (mm), and caveman "inches"
15 - 35.......0.590 - 1.378
17 - 40.......0.670 - 1.574
20 - 47.......0.787 - 1.850
25 - 52.......0.984 - 2.047
30 - 62.......1.180 - 2.440
35 - 72.......1.378 - 2.834
40 - 80.......1.575 - 3.150

EDIT: been looking at thick-wall aluminum tubing. Does anybody know of good US sources for metric tubing and shafts,..or..., clutching one-way bearings with ID's / OD's in inches? Planned on running a grub-screw into a threaded hole in the tubing to sit in the bearing key-slot...

Edit: CSK-PP is available for $30 each (+shipping/tax) at http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/mercha..._Code=bearings&Category_Code=One-Way-Bearings
 
Apparently there are shafts available in a 15mm diameter (halfway between 1/2" and 5/8"), so the 15mm/35mm CSK-PP's would work for the heart of a one-way roller (making it possible to create copies of EVTodds-drive).

I imagine a thick-wall aluminum tube 'could' have its ID turned down a little bit at the edge, so as to slip-fit the tube over the metric CSK-PP OD. Not the full length of the ID, just the ends, only deep enough to insert the bearings. A grub screw could thread through the thick-wall tube into the key-slot to prevent slippage. Aluminum tube is not hard to find in quite a few diameters (with thick 0.250" walls), but nothing metric yet (still looking)

0.250"-wall thick tube ID / OD = 1.250" – 1.750"
CSK-PP ID / OD = 15mm - 35mm.......(0.590" - 1.378")
This scenario would leave a wall thickness of approximately 0.160" around the bearings (still 0.250" along the middle of the roller)

It would not be hard to find a local shop to cheaply turn down the OD of the inner roller, so that a removable sleeve can be made out of existing tube diameters (removing the need to thin the walls further by cutting out the inner diameter of potential removable-outer-sleeve candidates).

I'd prefer to find either a good supplier of keyed one-way bearings in inches (looks unlikely)...or...shafts and aluminum thick-wall tubing in metric sizes. The search continues...
 
Found a supplier of metric Al tubing in Ohio (central USA). 35mm ID, 45mm OD, wall thickness of 5mm (0.197"). http://www.metricmetal.com/

Plus they have 45mm ID tubing also, so it may be possible to get "no machining" friction rollers, and removeable outer sleeves from one place.

Waiting for a quote tomorrow...(hope to find several suppliers instead of just one, but we'll see...)
 
Sorry I haven't posted photos up yet. I've been swamped with work for the past few days. I'm going to try to take one of my rollers apart tomorrow. I don't think they use key ways though. It's just a smooth hardened shaft and the bearing seems to be a press fit. In fact, I hope my little press can get them out of there. I actually did a little research at one time for the same kind of bearing and they were kind of expensive. I know the ev warrior rollers at the time were less than the bearing by itself.
 
Ok... I just tried to press the bearings out. Man, they are TIGHT! I'm going to see if I know anyone with a bigger press. Now I'm wondering if the brass bushings inside the roller have a different outer diameter than the bearing. The bushings move pretty easy but as soon as they get to the bearing it stops dead.
 
snath said:
I believe that this is the bearing(s) you will find in the roller. They are a press fit.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#ball-and-roller-bearings/=7vzjyb

Larry Barefield
Click to expand...

That link takes you to the main page for all of their bearings. It does look like a roller bearing and I'm sure it's a press fit but I don't think I've ever found the exact one on Mcmaster-Carr's site.
 
Well, I couldn't get it to work either.

The Part Number is 2489K24 so I guess you could just Google McMaster Carr and type it in the search box.

The description is: One-Way Locking Steel Needle-Roller Bearing Plastic Cage, 1/2" Shaft Dia, 3/4" OD, 1/2" Width at $9.46 each.

Larry
 
snath said:
Well, I couldn't get it to work either.

The Part Number is 2489K24 so I guess you could just Google McMaster Carr and type it in the search box.

The description is: One-Way Locking Steel Needle-Roller Bearing Plastic Cage, 1/2" Shaft Dia, 3/4" OD, 1/2" Width at $9.46 each.

Larry
Click to expand...

Similar looking but that one has a plastic cage and is only rated for 6.525 ft/lbs of torque.

This one also kinda looks like it: http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit8658 It doesn't say how much torque it can handle though.

Compared to any I've seen on the 'net the one in the EV Warrior roller looks like it has a lot more needle bearings in it. They're tough for sure. I really thought after I switched to an outrunner that it would just screw the bearing up and make it slip or something.

I'm really hoping to press one out so I can get some pictures taken.
 
Since the roller diameter is so small, the one-way bearings may not need to hold very much torque. They are cheap enough, I'm sure the roller can even fit 4 of them inside (if needed). I'm just imagining its as if the wheel is the very large sprocket, and the roller is a tiny sprocket.

CSK-PPs are expensive, and these needle-one-ways are much cheaper. Grinhill had a little bit of trouble with his set-up http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9172&start=75#p177470, but he only fit one inside a toothed-belt cog (same diameter as our roller) and it drove a spoke-ring pulley (smaller in diameter than our wheel). If we are using two one-ways, and our wheel has a larger diameter than his pulley, then...this should be at least 2-times as capable. Thats a pretty good margin.

So far I've found very expensive parts that would allow us to copy the EV-Warrior roller, but I'm still looking for HTD pulleys that can attach to a 15mm shaft. I want the direct-drive motor option just like your set-up, Todd. But also, I want it easily adaptable to a single belt-reduction with a motor that sits on top.

Matt used 1/2" on all his drives, and he even made a freewheel adapter to slide onto a 1/2" shaft (Staton makes one in 5/8"). I'm guessing the 1/2" shafts gave him lots of choices concerning pulleys and sprockets. It would be great if we could find 1/2" shaft parts. The IDs of thick-wall aluminum tube would be a pain to get turned, but shaving the OD's would be fast easy and cheap (if needed).
 
This site is getting so big! I have to sift through hundreds of posts to re-find something that my old mind thinks it remembers! Info from Grinhills second build:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10635

"...a separate jackshaft driven co-axially by the motor with some form of shaft coupling. Can now use a 1/2" shaft. For some reason, the bearings are half the price of metric ones (supply & demand?). And the beautiful thing is, there is a 20-tooth pulley with a 3/4" hub (to suit Shaftloc system) which will precisely fit the oneway bearing. No drilling required! Only available to suit 15mm wide belt, but that's OK.

Here's a comparison of the specs for my existing one-way (weak) bearing and the proposed one:

ID 8mm....OD 12mm.....22mm wide,...4 Nm max torque - price AU$47
ID 1/2"....OD 3/4".......22mm wide,...8 Nm max torque - price AU$39 ..."

file.php


file.php
 
I finally got my DJ bike put together today.

After riding my father's comfort bike I realized I'm getting older because I kind of enjoyed it. It helped me decide to make a "comfort dj bike" hopefully without making it look too dorky in the process. I'm just sick of riding a bike all hunched over. It's soooo nice being in a more upright position. It's not as good for hill climbing but that's what the motor is for (even though it's not on it yet).

I had a great time this evening. I hit some local trails just to see what would come loose on the bike. So far so good. DJ bikes really do feel like a bigger BMX bike. I like it. I'll get some pictures of it this weekend.
 
EVTodd said:
After riding my father's comfort bike I realized I'm getting older because I kind of enjoyed it. It helped me decide to make a "comfort dj bike" hopefully without making it look too dorky in the process. I'm just sick of riding a bike all hunched over. It's soooo nice being in a more upright position.
Click to expand...

I'm not old and I really like the comfortable upright position. This "bent over" position is for racers and I only occasionally do it to minimize frontal area and max out speed.
 
Quick picture of the new bike:

4821030729_282c5def09_b.jpg


I know, I know, RST forks suck. I got this set brand new for $13 so I couldn't pass them up. They actually feel great to me compared to the old rock shox on my Raleigh with almost no travel. I think they'll be just fine for road use. Ignore the pedals and cranks too. I'm putting Race Face DH cranks and Kona pedals on it soon.

I hope to get the motor slapped on it this weekend for a little test run.
 
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