Fusin Motors /WorldWide Electric Bikes 48V 10AH Kit Review

[Dan K]

As long as it's exposed simply measure across each cell with a voltmeter to check the individual cell voltages.

-R

EDIT: I'd be concerned about that nasty lookin' one in the middle.

Yeah, that one in the middle is cause for concern. Like it was suggested (Dogman I think?) that cell was probably bad from the factory, to have buildup like that.

 

[Dan K]

Sorry to hear about your accident Dan, but glad to hear that you are mostly okay.

Thanks. It's better than "mostly dead", for sure

 

[Russell]

[I know of the kona and Surly forks, and actually know the Surly fork is one bad mofo. The concern is what if the dropouts are a hair too wide, as they were on my motobecane forks?

Most forks are going to measure the standard 100mm between the dropouts but if this is too wide for your motor then add a flat washer to the axle on the inside of the forks.

-R

That's not the way it had fit issues. The dropouts themselves were not tight enough on the flats of the axle. Tough thing to figure out on a mail-order fork, it's probably a tolerance thing.

OK I misunderstood. Any bike that takes a standard quick release front axle is going to be 9mm and generally needs to be filed a bit to take off the paint to accomodate a 10mm motor axle. I have a Kona P2 fork on my Kona Smoke and it's standard 9mm. I believe you said you had a bolt-on front axle before the conversion which is why your dropout slot was bigger than standard. Those type of forks are on a few heavy duty off-road bikes and are made for bigger axles but if a fork is made for QR axles it'll be 9mm.


-R

 

[Dan K]

OK I misunderstood. Any bike that takes a standard quick release front axle is going to be 9mm and generally needs to be filed a bit to take off the paint to accomodate a 10mm motor axle. I have a Kona P2 fork on my Kona Smoke and it's standard 9mm. I believe you said you had a bolt-on front axle before the conversion which is why your dropout slot was bigger than standard. Those type of forks are on a few heavy duty off-road bikes and are made for bigger axles but if a fork is made for QR axles it'll be 9mm.


-R

Awesome, thank you! that's good to know. My concern with a QR fork is enough purchase for the washers and axle nuts. How do your Kona forks look in that respect? Do they have lawyer lips? Are you using them on a standard or motorized wheel? If standard, would it be too much issue to pop the QR and post a pic of the dropouts?

 

[Dan K]

OK, I thought of a way to charge it without having to cut & splice, I can just jump the 2 terminals in question. The question is, without the BMS, will the charger over-charge the battery? I could charge it and check every few minutes, but it'd still be iffy.

 

[Russell]

OK I misunderstood. Any bike that takes a standard quick release front axle is going to be 9mm and generally needs to be filed a bit to take off the paint to accomodate a 10mm motor axle. I have a Kona P2 fork on my Kona Smoke and it's standard 9mm. I believe you said you had a bolt-on front axle before the conversion which is why your dropout slot was bigger than standard. Those type of forks are on a few heavy duty off-road bikes and are made for bigger axles but if a fork is made for QR axles it'll be 9mm.


-R

Awesome, thank you! that's good to know. My concern with a QR fork is enough purchase for the washers and axle nuts. How do your Kona forks look in that respect? Do they have lawyer lips? Are you using them on a standard or motorized wheel? If standard, would it be too much issue to pop the QR and post a pic of the dropouts?

The front motor I'm currently using is mounted to my Raleigh hybrid (see avatar), I don't have a motor mounted to the Kona at this time. On the Raleigh I filed down the lawyer lips flush. The Kona fork has similar small retention tabs at the bottom of the forks.



If I do install a front motor on this bike, and that's likely, I'm going to try to grind down the thick anti-spin washers that come with most motors to clear the tabs. Another alternative to grinding the lawyer lips off is to install small spacer washers; some folks use split-lock washers, others make some washers to fill the gap. Yet another more pricey solution is to buy C-washers from ebikes.ca.



-R

 

[Dan K]

Cool, thanks for the pics and the reply! That fork is on my short list if I'm able to resolve these issues and this kit ever goes again.

 

[Russell]

OK I misunderstood. Any bike that takes a standard quick release front axle is going to be 9mm and generally needs to be filed a bit to take off the paint to accomodate a 10mm motor axle. I have a Kona P2 fork on my Kona Smoke and it's standard 9mm. I believe you said you had a bolt-on front axle before the conversion which is why your dropout slot was bigger than standard. Those type of forks are on a few heavy duty off-road bikes and are made for bigger axles but if a fork is made for QR axles it'll be 9mm.

-R[/quote]

I just wanted to clarify what I said above. Most standard front forks are made for a 9mm QR however the actual dropout will be bigger than this. I measured my Kona dropouts with calipers and they are nominally 9.85mm so they need ever so slight filing, probably just enough to take off the paint, in order for a 10mm motor front axle to fit snugly. Also bolt-on front axles are found on some cheap department store bikes to save a buck but they are not the oversized axles found on rugged off-road and downhill bikes which use big axles for strength.

-R

 

[Drunkskunk]

Sorry to hear that happened... But what a review!

The blue in that corosion comes from copper oxides, and that doesn't happen fast. that battery has had trouble for a while. it may be that the wreck caused a marginal cell to fail, and the BMS is just doing it's job and shutting down due to a bad cell.

The battery ought to be covered under warrenty. there is no way that corosion was normal or caused by the crash.

As for the forks, I'd definatly go for a good Beefy Kona or Surly, and avoid Motobecane for the replacement. MotoB is made by Pacific, the same people who make the average walmart bike. Granted, the MotoB is equeped with the best of the best, but there are stronger forks.

and..
Torque arms...

 

[Dan K]

OK I misunderstood. Any bike that takes a standard quick release front axle is going to be 9mm and generally needs to be filed a bit to take off the paint to accomodate a 10mm motor axle. I have a Kona P2 fork on my Kona Smoke and it's standard 9mm. I believe you said you had a bolt-on front axle before the conversion which is why your dropout slot was bigger than standard. Those type of forks are on a few heavy duty off-road bikes and are made for bigger axles but if a fork is made for QR axles it'll be 9mm.

-R

I just wanted to clarify what I said above. Most standard front forks are made for a 9mm QR however the actual dropout will be bigger than this. I measured my Kona dropouts with calipers and they are nominally 9.85mm so they need ever so slight filing, probably just enough to take off the paint, in order for a 10mm motor front axle to fit snugly. Also bolt-on front axles are found on some cheap department store bikes to save a buck but they are not the oversized axles found on rugged off-road and downhill bikes which use big axles for strength.

-R

Thanks again for this detailed reply. I did misunderstand what you said initially, but it seems the verdict is the same: A fork like your Kona will be made for QR, and will fit my axle, possibly with some filing. A fork that’s intended for bolt-on, like my Moto, will be larger than the axle (not by much, but no filing required) and that’s clearly a no-no.

 

[Dan K]

Sorry to hear that happened... But what a review!

The blue in that corosion comes from copper oxides, and that doesn't happen fast. that battery has had trouble for a while. it may be that the wreck caused a marginal cell to fail, and the BMS is just doing it's job and shutting down due to a bad cell.

The battery ought to be covered under warrenty. there is no way that corosion was normal or caused by the crash.

As for the forks, I'd definatly go for a good Beefy Kona or Surly, and avoid Motobecane for the replacement. MotoB is made by Pacific, the same people who make the average walmart bike. Granted, the MotoB is equeped with the best of the best, but there are stronger forks.

and..
Torque arms...

Glad you enjoyed the review. It’s not the first I’ve done, just the first for an e-bike. Here in the camp of Dan K, we get to the skin ‘n pavement of things, even if it means leaving some skin & blood on the pavement like I did today!

Good to know about the battery. The pics were taken within an hour of the crash. If it took a while to get like that, it was already like that. I’m hoping that Worldwide Electric Bikes/Fusin Motors will see fit to replace it under warranty. It seems like it should be a warranty issue to me as well. I’ve had the kit under 2 weeks. In fact, it shipped 2 weeks ago tomorrow. I got it on the 14th, and finished the build and got the first ride in on the 15th, so I’ve actually only had it 9 days, and been riding it for 8. It feels like so much longer! I’ve grown attached to it in such a short time.

If I can get a new battery on warranty I’m definitely thinking about the Kona. I’m actually more of a Surly guy normally, but since I’ve spoken to Russell and seen what I’d be getting, as well as even measurements(!) it seems like the smarter choice, unless someone can provide me with a similar picture and the same measurement on the Surly.

When I spoke with Steve @ WWEB today he told me that better wheel retention was already in the works. I assume this means torque arms, in some way, shape or form. If I am able to get another battery on warranty (I did pay full price for the battery, as part of the deal we worked out for this test) torque arms will be high up on the list of things it needs. I’m thinking something like “am not riding this thing without torque arms”. Today was ugly, and could have been a lot worse. I’m not one to make the same mistake twice. And, since they are now working on better wheel retention for their kits, I won’t really be breaking away from their product review when I continue the review (which I will if I get another battery, there’s still a lot more to be tested!).

My truck is currently out of commission for some exhaust work. I need to figure out a new way to get to the races this weekend now, after being spoiled by this kit I have slacked on fixing my truck and don’t really feel like riding 40 miles with a tent, cooler, clothes, etc. for a weekend at the track. Drat! I need to fix my truck anyway to get my bike to the track for next month, but there’s no way I can finish it by tomorrow night or Saturday morning.

 

[fifthmass]

Dan,

This is what I got, less the cantilever mounts.

http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=10807

The 10 mm drop outs very tightly fit the flats on the 408 motor axle. It was a very light push fit but no filing was required. Likewise the washers fully seat on the drop out flats. No lawyer lips or anything else on the flats. Just checked it after 2000 miles. No spreading or deformation of the drop outs that I could detect.

Damn strong fork and a good fit to the axle.

Bill

 

[louispower]

Hi Dan,

a really bad news today, but It could be worse if it hurt you seriously, good to know you are ok yourself with this accident.

now back to the accident, sorry I didnot see a photo how the wheel was installed on your bike, here is a photo we could show how we install it here in our workshop.

You could see on motor's both sides there are 2 washers, washer 1 and washer 2. The washer 1 must be put inside the forks, to attach with the motor firmly, and the washer 2 shall be put outside the forks, then use locking nuts to tighten it. Once this was done, it is very hard to get loose on riding.

Also please use a standard steel fork with 100mm dropout, which fits the axle the best.

For the batetry problem we think this is caused by the bad cell, the BMS should be OK. When BMS detected there are any cells which are under regulated voltage, BMS will cut off the pack's output immediately. This is to prevent over-discharge. That's is why you could not measure a voltage before you "bypass" the BMS.

The corrosion was caused by water effect very obviously, you could see from the photo the blue area, it says it was caused by water effect. To be honest the steel pack is not good on water-proof, we have been now working on an aloy container for 48v/10ah, which should be better water-proofed.

Please send back the whole battery pack to Steve, and contact him for a warranty replacement. believe you will have a satisfying solution. We wish you could finish the review after you recover from the accident. Take care.

Thanks.

 

[Dan K]

Hi Dan,

a really bad news today, but It could be worse if it hurt you seriously, good to know you are ok yourself with this accident.

now back to the accident, sorry I didnot see a photo how the wheel was installed on your bike, here is a photo we could show how we install it here in our workshop.

You could see on motor's both sides there are 2 washers, washer 1 and washer 2. The washer 1 must be put inside the forks, to attach with the motor firmly, and the washer 2 shall be put outside the forks, then use locking nuts to tighten it. Once this was done, it is very hard to get loose on riding.

Also please use a standard steel fork with 100mm dropout, which fits the axle the best.

For the batetry problem we think this is caused by the bad cell, the BMS should be OK. When BMS detected there are any cells which are under regulated voltage, BMS will cut off the pack's output immediately. This is to prevent over-discharge. That's is why you could not measure a voltage before you "bypass" the BMS.

The corrosion was caused by water effect very obviously, you could see from the photo the blue area, it says it was caused by water effect. To be honest the steel pack is not good on water-proof, we have been now working on an aloy container for 48v/10ah, which should be better water-proofed.

Please send back the whole battery pack to Steve, and contact him for a warranty replacement. believe you will have a satisfying solution. We wish you could finish the review after you recover from the accident. Take care.

Thanks.

Hi Louis,

Thanks for your condolences. I’ll live, it could have been worse. I’ve been banged up before, it’s not the end of the world.

The wheel was installed exactly as your picture shows, on a chromoly steel fork with 100mm dropouts. When I spoke with Steve he said you were trying to come up with some addition wheel retention to include in the kit, such as torque arms. I think this would be beneficial, as I had the wheel installed exactly as your picture shows and this still happened.

I’ve contacted Steve about a replacement, and await his reply. If he’s willing to send me a replacement, I will send this one back to him.

Assuming that goes well, I will continue the review as soon as I get a new fork, the new battery and some torque arms (I’ll purchase the torque arms myself, but after this incident will not ride the kit without them again). By the time I get all that stuff mailed to me and installed I should be healed up enough to continue. I hope you’ve been pleased with my review so far. Aside from this incident it has been an excellent kit.

Dan

 

[louispower]

Hi Dan,

please PM me your detailed address and phone number, a new pack will be sent to you by express next week.You should get it next weekend. Also please send back the broken pack to Steve, but please keep your charger with you.

Thanks.

 

[dogman dan]

Nice Louis! Dan, did the forks actually spread any? Or did the force on the nuts tend to spit the axle out of the dropout? On my first disasterous install, after I took it apart, they were definitely a v shape instead of the u shape. Dan, if you have any bikes with a 1" headset, I have had very good results with the squashed tube type suspension forks. Good quality bmx or mtb steel forks seem to work too. Both will have big beefy dropouts. I think this is crucial for front hubs. If you don't want to continue the review, PM me, and maybe we can work something out on just the motor.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Good to hear that the battery is being replaced.

 

[Dan K]

I’m pleased with the reponse of Louis and Steve as well, and stoked the battery is being replaced. I’ll continue the review when I get the new one!

Dogman, I spend all weekend at the motorcycle races, and have not looked at the forks to see if they spread or not. Considering they dove blade-first into the pavement when the wheel came off, I’m not sure I’m going to be able to tell anyway, but I’ll check it out this week. I also need to order a new fork now, or start seriously hunting CL for an older rigid MTB with a chromo fork. The only bike I have with a 1” headset is a very high-end hardtail that I’m not comfortable dedicating to this project. The fork alone is worth over $600, and focused toward light weight, not taking this type of abuse. I’m going to hunt CL, and if I can’t find something I’ll order another 29er fork online that has the space. I have a feeling I need to replace that 29er fork anyway…

 

[Drunkskunk]

2 ideas for you. 1, see if you can finde a machine shop that would be willing to cut off the end of the fork and weld on some 1/4 dropouts for you. No need for a torque arm then.
2, you mentioned this was a single speed. If thats the case, and if the motor has threads on the left side of the case for a spin on disc brake, and if the covers on the case can be swapped (I know, this is a lot of "ifs") then you could spin on a single speed freewheel and use this as a rear motor, eliminating the fork issue. and if the case covers aren't reversable, the cover from a rear motor version of this(if there is one?) might be used.

 

[Dan K]

2 ideas for you. 1, see if you can finde a machine shop that would be willing to cut off the end of the fork and weld on some 1/4 dropouts for you. No need for a torque arm then.
2, you mentioned this was a single speed. If thats the case, and if the motor has threads on the left side of the case for a spin on disc brake, and if the covers on the case can be swapped (I know, this is a lot of "ifs") then you could spin on a single speed freewheel and use this as a rear motor, eliminating the fork issue. and if the case covers aren't reversable, the cover from a rear motor version of this(if there is one?) might be used.

Thanks. As far as #1 goes, I think it would cost more to have new dropouts welded on than to just get a new fork. I'm also not overly keen on trusting this one after it bit into the ground that hard. I could inspect it, but after a wreck like that I'd just as soon bin it. As for #2, I'll look at the motor tonight. The bike is indeed a singlespeed.

 

[snowranger]

Call a bike coop or used bike store in your town. You can probably score a rigid fork for $15 or so.

 

[dogman dan]

Glad to hear you are going to continue the review. I think the gearmotors need what Heinzmann did, integrating a bombproof torque arm into the axle by having a big diameter on one side of the axle. No doubt patented, but when did that bother the chinese?

 

[OneWayTraffic]

Any updates?

Louis showed me a link to a version of this kit in NZ for $900. That's an incredible value. Shame I'm not in country to snap it up.

 

[louispower]

Any updates?

 

[Dan K]

Hi All,

Just wanted to bump this up, let you all know I have not forgotten about you. Since I last posted I have bought 2 seperate MTBs, and the wheel didn't fit in either properly. One there was too much rotational play, like the one I had my crash with. The second the area from the flat of the dropout to the bottom of the fork leg was not high enough, so the locking washer hit the fork tube and couldn't fit smoothly. Then, I crashed my motorcycle in a race, and have been laid up a little bit. I'm back to about 90% now, and don't have another motorcycle race for a month or so (raced last weekend but no crashes, fortunately) so I'm back on the hunt. I'm going to look at another possible candidate tonight or tomorrow, this time I'm taking the wheel with me (the first two were just bikes I saw cheap and grabbed up unplanned, so I didn't have the wheel). If this one works I'll continue the review tomorrow or the day after. If not I may have to go to wal-mart with the wheel and some tools and see if they've got something that fits, I've been focusing on bikes of pretty good quality so far and the forks are just not working.

I'll be back with updates soon. I have the new pack and am anxious to continue this review.

Dan