Game On. Ambitious first build. Dual 3220's

[-Bugsy-]

Hi All.

This is my first significant post here on E.S.
Like many who first start out, I have been lurking in the background gathering ideas and bringing myself up to speed on the choice technologies and issues relating to them. I am now up to the stage where I think I have a viable design that fits with my dream e-bike and some funding set aside. So before pressing the 'buy it now' button I'd like to run it past the E.S forum here for impressions / advice / comments.

About Me:
I fix X-ray machines for a living so am not adverse to swinging a soldering iron or spanner. Also an avid bike enthusiast that races downhill MTB. However, I have no experience with RC components or LiPo.

Purpose:
I know twin 3220’s are probably overkill, but this project needs to have horsepower issues that boarder on the ridiculous. Ultimately, I’d like to race this thing on a go-kart track against the mini-motards. Plus, I’d get a huge kick out of wearing leathers on a bicycle. The spirit of this build needs to strike fear into the hearts of those who mount it. Not a Sunday ride through the park.

The donor bike:
DMR frame. Chromolly for strength. Marketed as a hard-tail downhiller (slack head angle and can accept long travel forks) making it stable at speed. Hardtail for the precious ‘real estate’ in the front triangle. As much as I’d love to do a dualie. That may have to wait to be build 1.2

Drive System:
I have my eye on one of Matt’s V3 drive systems with the twin 3220’s fed by twin HV160 controllers, throttle interface and Magura twist grip throttle. There was also mention in a non hub thread a few days ago about a slipper clutch that can be incorporated into a V3 drive system. This news allays many of my concerns about an RC build and I would offer my first born child for such a setup. Wink.

Q: Can someone point me towards a tech thread about modifying HV160 capacitors?

I plan to mount the motor under the down-tube in front of the bottom-bracket via some frame clamps. Pinned through the frame if nescerary to prevent torque twist
I plan to use 219 chain from the freewheel output on the drive system straight back to a broached freewheel on the hub (gearing to be determined) with a parallel single-speed chainline to the crank for pedaling – Yes. I also want to be able to pedal this thing as well.

Qo you recommend a second broached freewheel for the pedal driveline as well? Where can I get one – or two?

Both wheels will be 26” with the rear been a custom build with 10guage spokes and 135mm Hadley / Hope / Aireal hub (very high quality)

Battery System:
LiPo – Turnigy Nano 6Ah 6S 25-50C times 4 giving a 12S2P (12Ah) pack – yeah? Mailorder from HobbyCity.
Q: Can someone please recommend a good LiPo charger for a 12S setup? Hyperion?
Q: Does the HV160 take care of LVC or should I consider some sort of BMS as well?


Any advice or opinions are welcome as this represents a hefty financial outlay but I think the result will be worth it. Promise to post lots of action video.

Thanks in advance..

 

[Miles]

Qo you recommend a second broached freewheel for the pedal driveline as well? Where can I get one – or two?

Yes - essential.

See here for the forum supply: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=17602

 

[drewjet]

It sounds like a very ambitious project. I have a single 3220 on a hardtail, and have a hard time imagining the need or ability to use much more power, let alone double.

I think you need more battery. I am running 12S2P of the 5000 Mah, and it drains it pretty quickly, with 2 3220's I don't think you would get very far.

What kind of top speed are you shooting for?

Matt's drive is awesome, with that much power on board and such a light machine, I don't know if the slipper clutches are needed or would even do you any good. Beware the acceleration of it will try and throw you off the back everytime you accelerate.

 

[liveforphysics]

I run 8x that much battery, and I'm pretty happy with it. Like Drew said, you're going to want at least double that amount, I would recomend 3x that amount if you're looking to have decent range while flexing the power.

As I'm sure you know if you've read this forum much, expect controller deaths. I'm not even saying expect controller deaths from choosing RC controllers, I'm just saying in general when looking to do high performance EVs, expect controllers deaths. Plan on it, budget for it if needed.

 

[-Bugsy-]

What kind of top speed are you shooting for?

While sitting here at the drawing board, I'd like it to wheelie all the way to 100Kph. Something worthy of taking to the track and donning the leathers.

Thanks for the battery advice as well. Easy enough to scale up the size of the pack. Then again in the race application it only needs to last 5 - 10 laps then swap in a fresh pack.

 

[liveforphysics]

While sitting here at the drawing board, I'd like it to wheelie all the way to 100Kph.

Good man. Everything worth riding should wheelie all the way to at least 100kph.

 

[AussieJester]

While sitting here at the drawing board, I'd like it to wheelie all the way to 100Kph. Something worthy of taking to the track and donning the leathers.

*Subscribed* :lol: Welcome to the forum....

KiM

 

[recumpence]

A couple things;

#1 You do not need a clutch with that much power. What you need is a wheelie bar. :wink:

#2 If you run 6 turn Deltas or higher (higher turn count), blown controllers will be kept to a minimum or not happen at all depending on the setup. I say this because the high output trikes I have built (no wheelie issues with a trike, therefore they pull more current longer), 6 turn Deltas are enough for the motors to survive. If you run 7 or 8 turn Deltas, you are pretty safe. Again, 6 turn Deltas are a "Hot" wind, yet the controllers survive a long time on them.

#3 You will bend the frame before the round tube frame clamps twist on the frame. They hold like a vice.

#4 I have never run that much power through the stock drive on the right side. The freewheel may not take it. If not, you can run a left side drive. I have pushed 40hp through a left side drive with a White Industries freewheel without any failures.

Aside from that, I can tell yopu it will be STUPID fast and insanely powerful. Also, with intermittant throttle use (which is what you will see on a setup like that), it shoudl survive pretty well. I have learned alot about how to make these drives survive with that much power. It is a science and an art all in one project.

I can PM you my number (assuming you are in the US) and we can talk directly if you would like.

Matt

 

[Ypedal]

+1 for more capacity. .you will certainly need it for that many laps. I run 20ah on a single 3210 and i run out rather quickly lol...

I'd suggest a cheap RC charger for ballancing on occasion ( and initial pack building ) .. then go with meanwell power supplies for getting the job done quick.

 

[lostrack]

googled dual 3220s and saw this....did it ever happen?

 

[Byte]

googled dual 3220s and saw this....did it ever happen?

Rodgah here on the forum did it, I think he sold it after 1 week of riding because it was too much power

Subscribed btw!

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDK5LII_kao&feature=player_embedded

Scarey to ride, and I consider that Ive had enough experience to know how to ride, I can just imagine how someone that doesnt know how to ride a powerfull dirtbike or 1000cc roadbike would end up on it :?.Cheers

 

[Ypedal]

was like trying to ride a bucking bull down a country road lol... hilarious but no fun long term.

 

[Whiplash]

Do you think this type of build with the new R/C interface with the CA could be tuned to be ride-able? I mean if you have nice linear throttle, anything can be ridden if you are not stupid, right? Otherwise the Literbikes and Busa's would not exist...

 

[Idontwanttopedal]

I want one lol

 

[recumpence]

The newest twin motor systems I have built also come with my torque limiter installed. So, that helps.

I would assume the RC-CA would be a great addition to an otherwise crazy powerful setup.

Matt