Gearsensor Delay BBS02

[Lego]

I have a Gearsensor I on a BBS02 Build with a Alfine 11 IGH
it works but
The power cut-off delay is quite long (or when applying ebrake) when shifting
and I'm losing a lot of acceleration potential waiting for the BBS to kick in again
I have the programming cable and want to reduce the delay. Is there a programming (or any other) setting to make that change? I've written the Gearsensor maker and he says that there is no settings on the sensor itself. Thanks : )

 

[tomjasz]

Tap the brake lever shift and go.
Return the GS and buy a decent 8 yo bottle of single malt.

 

[Lego]

Cool, btw this is on a Townie
What I'm not liking is the delay from the brake tap OR the gear sensor, both are caused by the same circuit and are (i'm guessing) .7 seconds. It only needs to be half that or a third. Hell.. the cable is already moving towards a shift. I have 2 BBS02s and on my other install I just let off the throttle, Shift and WOT again, takes almost no time (or acceleration interruption) at all.

What I'm really asking: Is there a particular adjustment in the BBS programming which you can specify the duration of the built-in brake-activated cutoff?

 

[vk4bxi]

Hi, I'm not sure (I'm busy commissioning my own BBS 02 at the moment ) but, I think that there is another way to do this. There are a couple of circuits out there that via a micro switch and a couple of resistors modify the output of the throttle circuit to cut it down to a low level while changing gear. when you release this the rise in power should be very quick. From what I can see the BBHD has an extra input designed to take the gear change sensor, I would suspect that this input has no or little delay on release. It would be nice if the BBS -01/02 also had this feature as well but it doesn't at present (at least mine doesn't ). One of the things on my list is to move the gear change sensor out of the brake circuit and into the throttle circuit and see if this improves the release time. I will need a relay and bits to add on to the gear change circuit so that it "looks like" a micro switch, then we will see how things go.

 

[Lego]

Thanks... interesting. Keep me posted
My intention of getting the GS was to be able to WOT and accelerate by indiscriminately running up the 11 gears of the Alfine 11 while keep the motor in medium, if not high, RPMS. I wrongly had the impression that the power cut would be 'just enough' delay. The way it actually is, is extremely conservative and laggy. I was imagining a performance accessory and it turns out to be a nanny 'governor'.

 

[WoodlandHills]

It is a bit unclear from your original post, but if you do not have the dedicated Gearsensor cable coming out of the controller you are working with the brake circuit and you are stuck with its delay. You can alter it significantly with the programming cable though.

If you have a newer controller with the dedicated (and supported) Gearsensor cable then the delay is very short and you can bang through the gears, just as you mentioned in the previous post. The only way to take advantage of this dedicated plug and software is to buy a controller that has a built-in Gearsensor cable. FWIW, all the newest controllers seem to have it AFAIK.

 

[Lego]

Yes, I am working with the brake circuit as this 2 months old BBS 02 does not have the dedicated GS port.

"You can alter it significantly with the programming cable though."

Can you direct me to info how I can do this?! This is really the crux of my post.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Search is your friend : there are many long threads here on this very subject.

 

[tomjasz]

You'll not get an improvement without the controller version. Go back and read the beta testing done here. The brake version is what it is. It's the wrong motor for SF hills anyway. Get a barebones BBSHD with the GS controller and rock those hills.

 

[vk4bxi]

Hi as I have posted, I want to use the thumb throttle circuit/ input to reduce power when the gear sensor operates. Does anyone know what the order of time delay that will generate when released on the BBS 02 controller ?

 

[Lego]

Search has not been my friend, which is why I started this post. I see many posts about the gearsensor, but none which discuss specific programming variables using the brake circuit on a BBS 02. Care to help me please?

I've read all about this, hours now. I'm an expert! But I haven't found, nor read one technical word, instruction or discussion about programming for the ebrake version bbs 02 via USB interface to change the motor cutoff delay (or any other compensation).

As far as SF terrain, riding (downtown) here is more about staying away and ahead of cars than hills. Being urban, it's like a video game to ride here with constant speed (and gear) changing to stay alive.

 

[WoodlandHills]

The first response I got was a thread with 43 pages all about programming the BBS01 and BBS02............ Did you try searching for the words: BBS02, Programming, Bafang, BBS01 and "the"? Maybe in a different order.........?

 

[Lego]

Sure, I know how to program the BBS 02. I did done that about 9 months ago.
But to program it to tweak specifically the ebrake cutoff delay (or other trick to effectively do so), I'm not finding anything. Can it be done?!

 

[dustNbone]

I read the 43 page programming thread from end to end. This is not mentioned there. Not every question is invalidated by the presence of a search function.

 

[tomjasz]

Search has not been my friend,.

http://bfy.tw/6P9E
First hit most relevant info

 

[vk4bxi]

Re: Programming the Bafang Middrive BBS01+BBS02

Postby pjgold » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:41 pm

Pedal Assist settings findings so far.

Slow Start Mode(1-8) No surprises here this controls how fast the power ramps up when you start pedalling 8 is fastest 1 the slowest.
Startup Dgree(Signal No) Not sure of the measure but controls the amount of pedal rotation before power kicks in lower is faster.

Work Mode(Angular Speed of pedal/wheel*10) This is the biggy, the setting I was looking for, this setting dramatically increases the power in pedal assist mode. It effectively closes the gap between the power that is available with the throttle mode compared with pedal assist. Not sure what the measure is however the higher the number the more power, it appears to be held on higher in the pedal RPM range or at least spreads the power over a greater RPM range and gives the bike a far more torquey feel in pedal assist mode. Whatever the case in my opinion the setting dramatically improves the pedal assist of this BBS02 and drastically improves its hill climbing ability without resorting to the throttle. Fair word of warning we all know that too much throttle for to long will over heat the BBS02 having this setting to high will be like riding around full throttle all the time use with caution.

Does this help ? I suspect that the slow start mode is where you and I are going to have to go to get the fastest re-engagement after a gear change.
my machine is slow picking up power again and I'm waiting for a connector to build my programing lead.

 

[Lego]

Thanks vk4bxi, I'm going to play with this, but I'm skeptical. It's really not a power issue as much as it is a timing one. With an IGH the power cut ideally should be almost imperceptible. Without the dedicated GS port found on bbshd (and rare BBS02) I'm becoming convinced by the lack of answers that the ebrake port's delay is fixed. I will try Karl's programming and maybe not use the GS, or leave it optional for when I let guests ride my bike.

This is one area where people seem to get really confused. You can hook up a gear sensor to either ebrake cable hookup on the BBS02 or BBSHD and it will work just fine. The delay is a little longer, but most people will probably not even really notice the difference.

I'm not most people! the delay is huge for me, for example, when I'm being tailgated by an irate taxicab driver

I have noticed that the motor immediately cuts out if you backpedal a slight amount. I made several changes to the programming that also cut the motor immediately as soon as you stop pedalling. Check out Karl’s special sauce on the programming page.

Problem is I probably don't want to use PAS at all - I need accurate speed control in the urban jungle. So I'm skeptical of this, but it's worth trying on the stand.

My original and persistent question remains unanswered so I'm lowering my expectations. But I'd be grateful if anybody has an answer. Thanks!

 

[dustNbone]

I would suggest just doing what I did, disable the PAS, set the throttle to current mode, and cut power manually when you shift. You'll eventually get really good at it.

The trick seems to be unloading the driveline without having it slow down too much that things start to lash. Nail that and you can shift quicker and smoother than I think you could with any kind of automatic cutout switch. Imagine if your manual transmission car cut the ignition to the engine as soon as you started to move the gear shifter. Sounds terrible.

 

[alfantastic]

Slow Start Mode(1-8) No surprises here this controls how fast the power ramps up when you start pedalling 8 is fastest 1 the slowest.

Can you confirm if changing this parameter only affects the ramp up and has no adverse affect on the other settings.

 

[tommie]

I`ve recently fitted the Alfine 8 to my BBS02 conversion, i find it`s pretty straightforward to move through the gears with little delay,

stop peddling for a second and the same time clik to another gear, immediately start pedaling on the `clik`

 

[tomjasz]

cut power manually when you shift. You'll eventually get really good at it.

The trick seems to be unloading the driveline without having it slow down too much that things start to lash. Nail that and you can shift quicker and smoother than I think you could with any kind of automatic cutout switch.

THIS!
The rest is simply the dog chasing his tail.

The GS is for mom and dad on the bike path. They've been reading all the fluff spewed out on electric bike review and all those other sources that sell STUFF to n00b builders. It really does work well when controller integrated, for them.

Having been the first to distribute the GS among ES users, this is the best advise for power riders. " Cut power manually when you shift. You'll eventually get really good at it."

Second best piece of advice, have a backup controller if you're gonna play at programmer.

 

[vk4bxi]

Ok I'm also starting to get there. Bottom line if you want to do fast gear changes on a BBS 02 you need to be in PAS 0 with it set to throttle only. Then use the gear sensor as I'm going to......use it to switch the throttle reference down to a minimum value and when it releases you should be straight back up to what ever throttle setting you had. A relay is going to replace the micro switch driven from the gear sensor.
Bob

 

[Lego]

Fascinating! Way better than Learn to Search & Learn to Shift
I'm trying to grasp it, So there's an external relay ("micro switch") that the Gearsensor trips?
You haven't built this yet? I'd love to know where you source the relay
I'm trying to understand the role (or non–role) that the PAS plays
What is the function of deactivating the PAS when it is already set to zero?
Thanks a ton!

 

[vk4bxi]

No not quite !
This circuit was an attempt to control the power to the motor during changing cogs. The micro switch was located on the handle bars driven by the gear selector lever I.E. the micro switch should operate each time you flick the gear selector. This was pre the gear change sensor being available. My intent is to replace the micro switch with a changeover contact of a relay. I have a gear sensor that works, so I need to look at the output of it and arrange for it to drive a small relay ( with an extra transistor in between probably ). In this manner it will appear as if you have chopped the throttle for the time the gear sensor is active. I don't know it this moment if the throttle has a lag or smoothing filter to it but this would be all that is preventing a quick build up of motor torque. I agree with you at the moment the return of torque after the gear sensor has operated as they say ......sucks. It may not happen this week end but its in the forward planning.

Regards Bob

 

[Lego]

cool! i look forward to hearing more about your progress with this.