Get a hub motor

[eP]

How much do you allow for motor mounts, sprockets, chain and fabrication time?

How much it is related to X5 efficiency ????

As for comparisons based on cost, I always tell racers that if it rolls on the street, it's fair game. It's not my fault if someone doesn't bring enough.

As for comparisons based on cost, smaller geared motor need much smaller power input so the overall costs are much smaller.

If someone going to spend big money for huge battery pack and big money for power hungry inefficient (at low speed at least) motor hub it is his/her problem.

 

[Lowell]

How much do you allow for motor mounts, sprockets, chain and fabrication time?

How much it is related to X5 efficiency ????

As for comparisons based on cost, I always tell racers that if it rolls on the street, it's fair game. It's not my fault if someone doesn't bring enough.

As for comparisons based on cost, smaller geared motor need much smaller power input so the overall costs are much smaller.

If someone going to spend big money for huge battery pack and big money for power hungry inefficient (at low speed at least) motor hub it is his/her problem.

You are the one that brought up "it's unfair to compare a $400 hub motor to a $40 disc motor".

Then we can agree that the people with money can buy hub motors and batteries to run them, and those people will be faster than 5lb smoking discs. No real surprise there. Money buys better/faster/cooler/more-kickass toys, be it bikes, cars, boats, airplanes, computers, home theater, houses, etc.

It's funny, you seldom see rich people hating on the poor...

 

[eP]

..
Then we can agree that the people with money can buy hub motors and batteries to run them, and those people will be faster than 5lb smoking discs.

Maybe faster but only for short range. Efficient discs have much much longer range at the same amount of energy.

No real surprise there. Money buys better/faster/cooler/more-kickass toys, be it bikes, cars, boats, airplanes, computers, home theater, houses, etc.

I'm afraid X5 is not much better than poor, non-efficient cheap smoking motors.

So this way your money buys not better but much more power hungry first of all.

If more power hungry mean better for you, so its your problem.

Even the manufacturer don't want to relase its true parameters which could be guarantee.

How do you think - why

 

[Lowell]

..
Then we can agree that the people with money can buy hub motors and batteries to run them, and those people will be faster than 5lb smoking discs.

Maybe faster but only for short range. Efficient discs have much much longer range at the same amount of energy.

No real surprise there. Money buys better/faster/cooler/more-kickass toys, be it bikes, cars, boats, airplanes, computers, home theater, houses, etc.

I'm afraid X5 is not much better than poor, non-efficient cheap smoking motors.
Even the manufacturer don't want to relase its true parameters which could be guarantee.

How do you think - why

Do you call 68km short range? Some people like sports cars, and some people like econo boxes. Gas mileage is not a high priority for sport machines, but going fast is. Run at high speeds, the efficiency of a hub motor (90-92%) can exceed that of a disc when you factor in extra losses from chains/gears/bearings.

The difference is that an X5 hub will go fast without burning up. Lots of people have proven results with 503, 5303 and 5304 motors. None that I know of have failed in clouds of smoke.

 

[eP]

I'm afraid X5 is not much better than poor, non-efficient cheap smoking motors.
Even the manufacturer don't want to relase its true parameters which could be guarantee.

How do you think - why

Do you call 68km short range?

If you keep in mind how huge you need battery pack 68km range is very very short.

The difference is that an X5 hub will go fast without burning up. Lots of people have proven results with 503, 5303 and 5304 motors. None that I know of have failed in clouds of smoke.

Those people are usually closely related to distributors X5 as far as i know.

You still didn't answer for my simple question:
Even the manufacturer don't want to relase its true parameters which could be guarantee.
How do you think - why

How do you think - manufacturer don't know that parameters or don't want to relase them on his own site ????

 

[Lowell]

I'm afraid X5 is not much better than poor, non-efficient cheap smoking motors.
Even the manufacturer don't want to relase its true parameters which could be guarantee.

How do you think - why

Do you call 68km short range?

If you keep in mind how huge you need battery pack 68km range is very very short.

The difference is that an X5 hub will go fast without burning up. Lots of people have proven results with 503, 5303 and 5304 motors. None that I know of have failed in clouds of smoke.

Those people are usually closely related to distributors X5 as far as i know.

You still didn't answer for my simple question:
Even the manufacturer don't want to relase its true parameters which could be guarantee.
How do you think - why

68km at an average speed of over 60km/h? I guess it depends on how far you need to go in one trip.

Who is closely related to Crystalyte distributers? Patrick M? Knoxie? Name some names. Are you suggesting that people are lying about their test results to promote Crystalyte products?

I would trust real world observed results more than any manufacturers specifications. Have you tried to ask the manufacturer for motor specs and they would not supply them?

 

[eP]

I would trust real world observed results more than any manufacturers specifications. Have you tried to ask the manufacturer for motor specs and they would not supply them?

Why i should ask the manufacturer for motor specs ?

Are you kidding man ???

It is so strictly confidential or manufacturer is so much shy ? :wink:

If he dont want to relase the specs i have right to assume the specs are pretty bad isn't it ?

 

[Lowell]

I would trust real world observed results more than any manufacturers specifications. Have you tried to ask the manufacturer for motor specs and they would not supply them?

Why i should ask the manufacturer for motor specs ?

Are you kidding man ???

It is so strictly confidential or manufacturer is so much shy ? :wink:

If he dont want to relase the specs i have right to assume the specs are pretty bad isn't it ?

You have the right to ASSume anything you want.

You can also bench race to your hearts content at the Ebikes.ca simulator, but you better start coming up with better arguments, or your credibility will go the way of a certain other poster on this forum who will now be ignored by the majority, regardless of what he writes.

 

[eP]

I would trust real world observed results more than any manufacturers specifications. Have you tried to ask the manufacturer for motor specs and they would not supply them?

Why i should ask the manufacturer for motor specs ?

Are you kidding man ???

It is so strictly confidential or manufacturer is so much shy ? :wink:

If he dont want to relase the specs i have right to assume the specs are pretty bad isn't it ?

You have the right to ASSume anything you want.

You can also bench race to your hearts content at the Ebikes.ca simulator, but you better start coming up with better arguments, or your credibility will go the way of a certain other poster on this forum who will now be ignored by the majority, regardless of what he writes.

Why are you so angry ?

If i have no guarantee i simply assume the worst scenario. Is it the wrong way ?

I don't care your insults, or yours attack on my credibility.
I see you simply act like as 8-years girl.

Credible manufacturer always relase specs for his produts

I don't care about distributor's simulator. The simulator can't give me any guarantee for any parameter.

 

[Lowell]

eP: I gave you the benefit of the doubt on this topic, and you have simply repeated the same questions over and over. The post above shows that you have nothing useful to say here and I am done with you in this thread.

 

[eP]

eP: I gave you the benefit of the doubt on this topic, and you have simply repeated the same questions over and over. The post above shows that you have nothing useful to say here and I am done with you in this thread.

The post above shows that you have no way to argue why manufacturer didn't relase the specs.

So you started the insults.

So i tell you again. Everybody has right to assume the worst scenario if he cannot get any guarantee.

If the manufacturer products is better than anybody assume in his worst scenario it is the manufacturers problem why he didn't relased the right specs.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

EP, you are comparing a very real and common motor to purely theoretical motors and you are criticizing the Crystalyte with no information whatsoever to back up your opinions. Have you ever used a Crystalyte motor? No? Then your opinion is worthless.

Everyone who has used them has been very pleased. My 5303 is shockingly quiet (the freewheel is many times louder than it is), it was easy to install, and it goes 34-36 mph on flat ground with 48V lead-acid batteries.

The motor was designed to perform well at high speeds, at the expense of low-speed and uphill climbs. It performs adequately in those situations but not necessarily efficiently.

 

[eP]

EP, you are comparing a very real and common motor to purely theoretical motors and you are criticizing the Crystalyte with no information whatsoever to back up your opinions.

I have the full right to warn - manufacturer dont want guarantee anything.

Have you ever used a Crystalyte motor? No? Then your opinion is worthless.

You want to sell the motor now, so your opinion is even more worthless. :wink:

Everyone who has used them has been very pleased. My 5303 is shockingly quiet (the freewheel is many times louder than it is), it was easy to install, and it goes 34-36 mph on flat ground with 48V lead-acid batteries.

The motor was designed to perform well at high speeds, at the expense of low-speed and uphill climbs. It performs adequately in those situations but not necessarily efficiently.

I will be pleased when i get the specs and the guarantee that what i buing fulfill the specs.

I don't want throw out my money because somebody else was very pleased.

Until i don't get the manufacturer full motor's specs i cannot assume more than at worst scenario.

So i have to assume that motor is pretty inefficient.

 

[knoxie]

Hi Guys

Cool your boots!! xlyte motors are not perfect and they are not the most efficient motor or kit that is available, they are however very good value hard wearing high power motors that simply get the job done, they are simple to fit, very tough and will take pretty much as much as you want to throw at them, its certainly capable IMHO of maybe as much as 5KW without burning up, thats if you want to.

Ep is right to question the efficiency figures if thats his concern it does not however mean that these motors are hugely inefficient just because the manufacturer does not release the details?

How may e-bike vendors release range and power data? yes pretty much all of the big kit sellers do. Ebay retailers and the like and do they ever really live up to the claims they make? err no! of course not, they are massively off most of the time, that 20 mile range is never more than 10 normally and that great hill climbing? well you know what I mean.

Manufacturers claims and data are largely irrelevant, real world testing is what counts, I cant speak for Lowell but I dont work as a vendor I just report back the performance of the kits I try.

The X5 was the only motor from the none geared bunch that really lit me up in a 26 inch wheel, the 4 series are good but compared to the geared systems werent quite enough for me, but thats just me.

There was actually a motor performance curve data released by the factory a while back, it was posted on VV I will see if I have a copy of it.

Both you guys have good points, lets not drag it down to the bottom of the volcano guys, I dont want people to leave the forum because of posts that go off the rails.

Take it easy guys

Knoxie

 

[CGameProgrammer]

You want to sell the motor now, so your opinion is even more worthless.

I'm not selling my motor; I'm selling an extra. I had a front 5303 but wanted to use a rear motor instead, so I bought a rear 5303 and am now selling the front one.

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[EbikeMaui]

Ebay retailers and the like and do they ever really live up to the claims they make? err no! of course not, they are massively off most of the time, that 20 mile range is never more than 10 normally and that great hill climbing? well you know what I mean.


Knoxie

Yea I known that for years also I know that people on this forum fudge there so called facts espacilly when they have the same motor.. Life goes on and so does the BS.

 

[knoxie]

Randy drop the name calling, you make some very valid points at times but this kind of unprovoked childish behaviour is uncalled for and just makes the threads unreadable.

Why do you do this in very forum you post in? whats the point? if people are happy with what they got and are using it leave them alone? you are happy riding about on your bike and you woudlnt touch a hub motor, thats your choice and nobody is trying to change your mind so dont insult people that are happy with what they have.

You have every right to contribute to the forum of course and I think sometimes what you say is valuable but continually insulting people destroys any credibility that you had, you can tell me your bike is 100% efficient whatever? it doesnt matter as nobody is going to watch your videos or listen to what you have to say.

Its a shame as deep down you have some good ideas and you have a lot to add to the subject, this hobby is not about bragging rights or records its supposed to be about fun and alternative forms of e-transportation and the interchange of ideas and information, so what if your motor is more efficient? so what? people are happy with what they got.

So cmon Randy lets cut the name calling and try and add something positive? there are a lot of good people on here that are developing some great batteries, motors you name it dont drive them away? we all know about your system, and it looks like you haven't developed it or made your own battery pack or done anything on it as such for a long time? dont disrespect people that are moving things forward, join in and make your bike better, lighter what ever.

I wouldnt want to see you get moderated but I can see it happening just like it did on the other forums, that would be a shame so lets all play fair guys!

Knoxie

 

[Drunkskunk]

I have the full right to warn - manufacturer dont want guarantee anything.

Obviously, you know nothing about Asian buisness practices. You have no "Right" to anything.

You only have "Rights" if you live in a country that agrees to a certian set of "rights" by social contract, and then only within the confines of that soverign country.

Whining about rights makes you sound like the little girl.

If you want comprehensive tech specs on a motor, you will need to negotiate with the manufacturer directly. That is custom in Asia, and they aren't given for free, unless bestowed on you as a gift. To demand them, or expect them is to insult the honor of the buisness owner, and by way of association, his family.

If you don't like Asian buisness practices, don't buy one of these motors.

So i have to assume that motor is pretty inefficient.

Thats a failurre in your logic. You have rejected all data, because you felt like it. Thats your choice, but to make the leap to the conclusion of inefficientcy is false logic. Then, to compare it based on this false logic to your mythical motor of efficancy is just moronic.

If you have a logical argument against the hub motors, I'd be willing to listen to it, but so far, all you've spewed out on these forums can best be compared to the insane rantings of a madman. Its amusing, but in the sad way that watching a drunkard try to walk down a street is amusing. I feel bad about laughing at you, but I can't help it.

 

[fechter]

Geezz :x

What's the beef with Crystalyte motors? There's enough 'real world' testing to know how they're going to perform. I don't trust most manufacturer's specs anyways, I'd rather have actual test results.

Let's stop the dissing and flaming here

Somebody needs to get a calibrated dynamometer and actually run some of these things before we can rag about specs.

I agree that most bike/scooter manufacturer's claims are wildly exaggerated. Again, testing will tell the truth.

 

[Lowell]

EP, you are comparing a very real and common motor to purely theoretical motors and you are criticizing the Crystalyte with no information whatsoever to back up your opinions. Have you ever used a Crystalyte motor? No? Then your opinion is worthless.

Everyone who has used them has been very pleased. My 5303 is shockingly quiet (the freewheel is many times louder than it is), it was easy to install, and it goes 34-36 mph on flat ground with 48V lead-acid batteries.

The motor was designed to perform well at high speeds, at the expense of low-speed and uphill climbs. It performs adequately in those situations but not necessarily efficiently.

It's funny you mention the freewheel noise, because for 1800+km I never had one. Now that I installed a single speed freewheel, the clicking is consistantly the loudest thing on the bike. I'd really like a roller bearing clutch like my helicopters have.

 

[Lowell]

Hi Guys

Cool your boots!! xlyte motors are not perfect and they are not the most efficient motor or kit that is available, they are however very good value hard wearing high power motors that simply get the job done, they are simple to fit, very tough and will take pretty much as much as you want to throw at them, its certainly capable IMHO of maybe as much as 5KW without burning up, thats if you want to.

Ep is right to question the efficiency figures if thats his concern it does not however mean that these motors are hugely inefficient just because the manufacturer does not release the details?

Manufacturers claims and data are largely irrelevant, real world testing is what counts, I cant speak for Lowell but I dont work as a vendor I just report back the performance of the kits I try.

Both you guys have good points, lets not drag it down to the bottom of the volcano guys, I dont want people to leave the forum because of posts that go off the rails.

Take it easy guys

Knoxie

I've tested my X5 to 6600W input power with no issues except the batteries got warm. 5kW+ is no problem at all, and the hub was telling the batteries "Is that all you got??" :lol: I only need a few more Emoli cells now to complete my 25s2p pack and then we'll see who cries uncle first!

I do not work as a vendor, and make zero dollars off the sale of anyone's ebike products. My main business is high performance cars, which is perhaps the polar opposite of ebiking.

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Perhaps you need to stick with cars where you have the correct specs.
http://www.crystalyte.com/

X-LYTE 5304 36v

R/MIN
N.M
WATT
AMPS
VOLTAGE


348
0.00
0.0000
1.2
36.0

Zero watts & you get 348 rpm!
I'd say that's pretty damn efficient!!
I doubt your design could improve on that, zero-point.

So why all the griping about the manufacturer not providing specs?

 

[TylerDurden]

SUMMARY:

Hub motor: Lots of power, but lower eff; easy-to-use package with no chocolate mess.

Etek: Lots of power, better eff; more difficult to install (DIY fabrication).


Could both be better? Yes.

Could both be worse? Oh yes.


Is one better than the other? It depends on what you want to use them for.


I humbly accept this merit-badge in ebike technology, and wish to thank the GSUSA for their non-sexist, non-ageist, all-inclusive policy.