Good Batteries?

That is 25 bucks before shipping, customs and VAT, right?

What are the total costs of ownership for a complete, working solution?
An old pc psu is fine, but you still need a load for the 5V line to keep the 12V stable and the psu from braking.
 
Yea if you look at my photobucket it shows the big ceramic resis. I used. I would post pics but my isp bandwidth is barely letting me post :? We have HK HobbyKing warehouse in Us. Shipping was free depending on dollar amount spent.
 
Cheapest I found now were $41,96. But let's go with your $39. times 3 is $117 plus charger plus PSU.
Sorry, but that's a long way from $100 incl charger.
 
They have sales all the time. It has been a couple years since I got mine. I figured they would be that cheap still. Back then guys would also do group buys all the time. Like I said been a little while,sorry. Lipo is still a cheap way to put together battery that will run decent amps. But you do get what you pay for.
If you look at my FSR bike you can pop 15s in a little box and it only weighs 5 lbs. maybe and you can pull 35 amps continuously on a little 5 ah. pack.
 
Come guys this guy needs a safe and sane plug and play battery. From www.ebike.ca, Ping, emv3 or sunthing. Pay the price for a first battery and with just plug and play. Not some backdoor junk on ebay. Customer surport ect . Just saying. Beating cheap can cost alot. Or be a hobby needing two complete batteries, motors and controllers. Some working.
 
Haha yea I think we got off topic. I started started to talkabout cheap HK lipo. Sorry. Back on topic I find about the best quality versus price from Cellman .
 
Nimbuzz said:
Hi, I'm wondering what the latest reliable 48v battery might be. Longevity? I searched but I didn't find a thread on this most important subject--any clues?

Thanks,
A
Click to expand...

What the TS is looking for is obviously a reliable, high quality pack.

Here are my thoughts:
LiFePO4:
-Outdated technology
-They drift - You gotta use a shady Chinese BMS solution that might (will? :) ) fail
-Heavy and bulky
-Pouches are fragile (does not apply to headway cells obviously)
-Low discharge rate (not true for A123)
+Safe
+Number of cycles (if your BMS does not fail and kill the cell first)
+Easy charging solution (as long as the BMS works)

LiPo (hobby king):
-Gotta watch them closely when charging.
-pouches are fragile and if punctured they will catch fire and if you are lucky, only damage your bike, if unlucky give you a 3rd degree burn.
-Involved charging solution - often have to disconnect your series connectors, connect balance leads etc.
-Number of cycles
-Cells seem to be somewhat prone to DOA
-Often sold out - i.e. you can't order them when you need
+ Light weight
+ Compact
+ High discharge rate - great for building a micro pack that will deliver tremendous amounts of power for a short time

Sony Konion (New cells of course)
+Drift free (i.e. no bms or balance charging)
+Light weight
+Compact
+Steel cells - not pouches
+Does not catch on fire too easy (I guess it is possible to somehow make them catch fire but I have yet to figure out how)
+Safe
+Easy charger solution (generally same as for LiFePO4 but you don't have to use BMS)
+Number of cycles (500 cycles will leave 90% of capacity, LiFePO4 is often rates lifetime til 80% of original capacity)
+The VTC4 cells does have really low internal resistance, i.e. high C rate
+Built in short circuit protection (fuse)

Can someone please fill out the negative things about the Konions? I can't seem to think about any..
 
bose said:
Nimbuzz said:
Hi, I'm wondering what the latest reliable 48v battery might be. Longevity? I searched but I didn't find a thread on this most important subject--any clues?

Thanks,
A
Click to expand...

What the TS is looking for is obviously a reliable, high quality pack.

Here are my thoughts:
LiFePO4:
-Outdated technology
-They drift - You gotta use a shady Chinese BMS solution that might (will? :) ) fail
-Heavy and bulky
-Pouches are fragile (does not apply to headway cells obviously)
-Low discharge rate (not true for A123)
+Safe
+Number of cycles (if your BMS does not fail and kill the cell first)
+Easy charging solution (as long as the BMS works)

LiPo (hobby king):
-Gotta watch them closely when charging.
-pouches are fragile and if punctured they will catch fire and if you are lucky, only damage your bike, if unlucky give you a 3rd degree burn.
-Involved charging solution - often have to disconnect your series connectors, connect balance leads etc.
-Number of cycles
-Cells seem to be somewhat prone to DOA
-Often sold out - i.e. you can't order them when you need
+ Light weight
+ Compact
+ High discharge rate - great for building a micro pack that will deliver tremendous amounts of power for a short time

Sony Konion (New cells of course)
+Drift free (i.e. no bms or balance charging)
+Light weight
+Compact
+Steel cells - not pouches
+Does not catch on fire too easy (I guess it is possible to somehow make them catch fire but I have yet to figure out how)
+Safe
+Easy charger solution (generally same as for LiFePO4 but you don't have to use BMS)
+Number of cycles (500 cycles will leave 90% of capacity, LiFePO4 is often rates lifetime til 80% of original capacity)
+The VTC4 cells does have really low internal resistance, i.e. high C rate
+Built in short circuit protection (fuse)

Can someone please fill out the negative things about the Konions? I can't seem to think about any..
Click to expand...

Seems to be bias toward Sony... OP specify Longevity and Lifepo4 meets his criteria.

Been running Samsung 18640 for 1years 8000km and starting to see capacity dropping 2-3%. I have switch to Lifepo4 slightly heavier(~2kg) and slight bulkier... but not a deal breaker and hardly noticable in ~20kg bike
 
Sorry, that is just plain wrong.

At what point is the energy density or the power density of LiFePo better than that of the Sony cells?
Longevity of LiFePo does not matter. Even after 500 full (!) cycles at maximum charge and discharge rate (multiple times higher than possible with LiFePo), which will be several years, the Konions will have lost only 10% of their capacity and still have an energy density twice as high as the LiFePo4.
Putting the Konions through the maximum punishment the LiFePos can take, won't even tickle them and I submit that they will be able to withstand more cycles at the same discharge rate.

It's like you're comparing a car from the 50s to one from 2013 and call it biased that everything about current one is better than the old one. Choosing a battery technology is by far the easiest decision, when building an ebike.

Just take another look at the numbers. It's so apparent, it's almost scary that anyone in their right mind could think otherwise.

By the way,the Konions have an internal fuse. If you short them, they won't go boom, but 0V
 
schwibsi said:
Sorry, that is just plain wrong.

At what point is the energy density or the power density of LiFePo better than that of the Sony cells?
Longevity of LiFePo does not matter. Even after 500 full (!) cycles at maximum charge and discharge rate (multiple times higher than possible with LiFePo), which will be several years, the Konions will have lost only 10% of their capacity and still have an energy density twice as high as the LiFePo4.
Putting the Konions through the maximum punishment the LiFePos can take, won't even tickle them and I submit that they will be able to withstand more cycles at the same discharge rate.

It's like you're comparing a car from the 50s to one from 2013 and call it biased that everything about current one is better than the old one. Choosing a battery technology is by far the easiest decision, when building an ebike.

Just take another look at the numbers. It's so apparent, it's almost scary that anyone in their right mind could think otherwise.

By the way,the Konions have an internal fuse. If you short them, they won't go boom, but 0V
Click to expand...

Damn.. Sony 37V11Ah $500USD (+shipping) nearly the same price as a Neo Battery... lol.. might give them a miss for now.
 
I am in California, please advise where I can purchase the sony 48volt 11amp battery or comparable battery thanks
 
999zip999 said:
Hobby or plug and play a link to these batteries made as a plug and play pack not just some of the best loose cells hobby..
Click to expand...

Example:
http://www.groetech.de/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=24&products_id=156
€339 36V 11,5Ah (with V3 cells)

Melbourne said:
bose said:
Nimbuzz said:
Hi, I'm wondering what the latest reliable 48v battery might be. Longevity? I searched but I didn't find a thread on this most important subject--any clues?

Thanks,
A
Click to expand...

What the TS is looking for is obviously a reliable, high quality pack.

Here are my thoughts:
.
.
.

Sony Konion (New cells of course)
+Drift free (i.e. no bms or balance charging)
+Light weight
+Compact
+Steel cells - not pouches
+Does not catch on fire too easy (I guess it is possible to somehow make them catch fire but I have yet to figure out how)
+Safe
+Easy charger solution (generally same as for LiFePO4 but you don't have to use BMS)
+Number of cycles (500 cycles will leave 90% of capacity, LiFePO4 is often rates lifetime til 80% of original capacity)
+The VTC4 cells does have really low internal resistance, i.e. high C rate
+Built in short circuit protection (fuse)

Can someone please fill out the negative things about the Konions? I can't seem to think about any..
Click to expand...

Seems to be bias toward Sony... OP specify Longevity and Lifepo4 meets his criteria.

Been running Samsung 18640 for 1years 8000km and starting to see capacity dropping 2-3%. I have switch to Lifepo4 slightly heavier(~2kg) and slight bulkier... but not a deal breaker and hardly noticable in ~20kg bike
Click to expand...

Yes it does seem biased towards konions but I I'd really try to come up with negative point but could not think of any. If you have any can you please supply them to me? I am very eager to find the weak points of those because I do trust my life with the batteries.

The op was also asking for a reliable package as well and it seems like you can forget that with most of the shady BMSs on the market today and the lack of quality control..
 
Hello,
I am building a scooter and i will use a 48v 500w motor and i decided to put RC Lipo batteries 8000mAh
My problem is that i don't know how many cells to buy ?
1.Do i need a BMS or i connect the batteries straight to the controller ?
2. The controller can work work with 60v so i was wondering can i work it with :
44.4 volt battery = 12 cells x 3.7 volts (12S) ?
or
55.5 volt battery = 15 cells x 3.7 volts (15S) ?
or
59.2 volt battery = 16 cells x 3.7 volts (16S) ?

thanks for the help
 
Assuming that scooter has a closed battery compartment. With a 60V controller and a 500W motor, I'd go with 16s lipo and a bms using 4s 5ah hardcase packs from hk at $25 each. LVC on a 60V controller is ~53V and should work well with a 16s rc lipo pack. Or you may just want to buy a premade 20ah 60V lifepo4 pack. Either should work well.
 
Why do i have to use BMS ?
I will buy a charger with balance is it necessary the BMS ?
 
I actually tested the Konion and used one pack for my stolen brompton.

Here's the test data:
Screenshot%202014-01-02%2002.11.28.png


To read the chart is to think that although the Konion cell doesn't loose much capacity after 100 cycles, its resistance increases like normal cell. (Lifepo4 cell don't have such increased resistance after 100 cycle).

What that means in term of real life data is voltage sag that becomes higher and higher. I loose more than 10V under 3C load. But you'll also reach minimum voltage earlier and earlier

My conclusion is that in average I get 2000mAH out of a Konion cell down to from 4.2 to 3V on all tested cells. On my full battery pack of 100 cells (72V11.25AH) I have a maximum of 9.5AH before reaching 50v... So about 2AH/cell again even when I go down to 2.5V/cell. I'd be keen to hear about real life data to know if people can really get 2.25AH from Konion V3 cells.

With deep discharging, pack tends to be a bit unbalanced after. It takes several cycles to have them back to normal shape.


So, I'd say that although these cells are quite robust, they are definitively not the lightest one at 2.25mAH, the 90% capacity after 500 cycles is maybe true but resistance is going to be so high the cells may not be usable. And many other cells have high power but also higher capacity such as the NCR18650PF at 2.9mAH or some of the samsung SDI cells.
 
dogman said:
Reliable used on what? Some of us have bikes that can quickly ruin a battery that would last 4 years on a low wattage bike.
Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth. My 28s10AH of zippy compact lipo won't last long with a voltage sag (when I go WOT from a dead start to 52 mph) of from 117v to 90v. I can't wait until they are toast so I can get 1200.00 worth of 32s10Ah Turnegy nano-tech 65-130c. I doubt if I'll have to wait long. Those Turnegy better not sag much.
 
Japan needs money to do work to our mutual advantage. Nobody wants there fish finger sandwiches to glow at night, especially after they have eaten them.
The satisfaction I could get from getting some top quality cells while helping Japan has me thinking I might buy a pack early. I just wish they were tabbed.
 
Hello again,
Do I need a BMS for RC Lipo batteries ?
I will use them on a scooter and i will charge them with balance-charger.....
 
VEGAS said:
Why do i have to use BMS ?
I will buy a charger with balance is it necessary the BMS ?
Click to expand...
You don't. I've never used a bms with my lipo, but it will make for easy charging of a 16s pack. Otherwise, you'll need to split the 16s packs into two 8s packs to balance charge them. Not that hard as I split my 24s pack into 12s packs to charge. There's many ways to do it. Using a bms would just be the easiest way to charge.
 
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