Got pulled over today

[Miles]

flez,

The old EAPC statutes from 1983 haven't been rescinded yet. I expect they'll get around to it.

There's a lot of discussion and lobbying going on WRT the EU regulations. You need to read the thread that I linked to.

You shouldn't really use "average" in lieu of "continuous rating", even casually. The continuous rating is a qualified maximum, nothing to do with averages.

 

[flez1966]

flez,

You shouldn't really use "average" in lieu of "continuous rating", even casually. The continuous rating is a qualified maximum, nothing to do with averages.

Yes thats my bad.

Right just cable tied all the bits back to the wifes bike for a road test before assembling it neatly, time to see if full operation has been restored after the water damaged / blown fets

technically i should now watch for plod.. the 'plate'' saying the size of the motor and voltage is now unreadable as the rain has got to the print...on a good side while it was benched i found all the extras like 3 speed switching and regen/cruise that she cant legally use.... now wheres my controller....

 

[Hangdog98]

An electric bike, even a high powered one like mine, uses so much less energy that it doesn't matter,

Compared to a 20 kW e-bike, a 20kW gas bike is just about as efficient per calorie of fossil fuel, costs less to make and buy, and lasts much longer than the most expensive and energy-intensive part of the e-bike (the battery). A 1kW e-bike bests a 1kW gas bike in most ways, though. And in a real city, a 1kW e-bike gets you there in almost the same elapsed time as a 20kW bike, but with a small fraction of the power consumed.

Chalo

A 1kW ebike ridden to work uses considerably less fossil fuel than a toyota Prius for the same journey. Not kW for kW, not km for km, but journey for journey. Yes, a 20kW motor, either ICE or electric may be shown to use similar amounts of fossil fuel for the same journey (when you completely ignore the off-peak charging likelihood which uses no extra coal), but, an ICE bike is usually a 2kW to 3 kW motor and is an oily, smokey, smelly, vibrating contraption that has little mass market appeal. A 1.5kW eBike is like a magic carpet by comparison whose battery will last twice as long as a Chinese two stroke bicycle engine, and an is a real alternative for people currently driving to the store in a V6 Toyota Kluger. That's where the comparisons should be made. My wife leaves our mid size SUV at home and takes the eBike to the store and she loves it. There's no way she'd fire up some crappy ebay smoker-bike and buzz to the store. She, like every other soccer mom would take the SUV. That is where the the emissions comparisons should be made.

 

[Ariane]

I'm not taking sides, but I'm a light and relatively fit person, and I can't maintain 20mph on the flat on a MTB for miles, maybe 15mph. 15mph takes about 250W, 20mph is getting on for 400-500W.

A fit(ish) average rider can maintain about 250W of human leg power for any kind of distance.

Sprinting is a bit different though

Well ES suprise me every day now it's fitness forum :lol: :lol:

 

[Punx0r]

I much prefer the glide of electric propulsion now

The point is still flying right over your head. An electric bike, even a high powered one like mine, uses so much less energy that it doesn't matter, the pollution is drastically less, and that includes less pollution than pedal bikes unless you grow your own food. They use so little energy that it's actually practical to use a home alternative energy system to provide the energy required.

You and Chalo are clueless in your opposition to high powered ebikes, and have yet to present a valid argument in support of your position, so you resort to making up problems that don't exist and trying to change the subject.

John, I'm now not sure if you are genuinely unable to understand what I'm saying, or are pretending not to, to use me as an easy target to hammer home some point you wish to make.

I calculated the mpg-equivalent of my bike a couple of weeks ago, just out of interest.

I've been a fan of EV's for many years - since I was a boy. Long before being "green" became a middle-class fashion. I love them as pieces of technology.

I'd love to see more widespread use of EVs, the only caveat being the *responsible* piloting of high-powered vehicles. I have made this abundantly, repeatedly clear.

I'm not changing the subject by mentioning EVs moving pollution. For the second time: I DID NOT BRING IT UP. MY ONLY COMMENT WAS TO NEGATE IT AS A CRITICISM AGAINST EVS.

Now, if you want to be the electric equivalent of Easy Rider then that's fine, I've already given my approval and blessing of the situation in your country. Just stop inventing me as an opponent simply as an outlet for your angry views. How the hell would you ever convince someone who is anti-EV if you can't even get on with someone like me who loves them?

 

[John in CR]

An electric bike, even a high powered one like mine, uses so much less energy that it doesn't matter,

I just don't think you are right about that, hp-for-hp. What you have in effect is a hybrid, with the fossil-fueled engine at the the power plant. The best coal-fired steam turbine plant is about 50% efficient. You lose efficiency bringing the brown coal (not a very energy-dense fuel) to the plant, and then lose some more in the electrical generator and even more (about 10%) in the lines getting it from the plant to your house's plug. Then you lose more converting the voltage in your charger, and more again turning the charger's energy into battery charge. Then under optimum conditions you get 3/4 of the battery's charge out of the controller and motor if you have good ones.

Let's disregard the wasted energy moving coal to the power plant, since gas vehicles need their fuel transported too. And let's disregard transmission and tire losses, because those apply whether you're using ICE, electric, or muscle. And then let's take our best case numbers for the electric system-- let's assume you have a really good motor and controller that combine to deliver 75% efficiency, and that your charger and battery are both 90% efficient in the real world. And let's assume that your local utility is using a state-of-the-art steam turbine for power generation, and a state-of-the-art electrical generator and generator system that delivers 90% efficiency,

50% from the power plant's turbine X 90% from the power plant's generator X 90% from the power lines X 90% at the charger X 90% at the lithium ion battery X 75% from the bike's controller and motor = 24.6% total efficiency, or about the same as what you get from a good gasoline engine under favorable operating conditions. Only your bike is running on coal.

The way an electric vehicle becomes more efficient than its ICE equivalent is by using less power, as in less actual horsepower to the ground. And that means going slower than the ICE vehicle, because as I just demonstrated, horsepower for horsepower the electric does not improve on the efficiency of a good modern gasoline engine. Just like human power, the efficiency and small resource footprint of an electric vehicle is predicated on its low power and speed. Make an EV like a Tesla or the two-wheeled equivalent, and your pollution and resource depletion are going to be directly comparable to their ICE counterparts per kWh. Higher, if you figure in the energy sunk in manufacturing the batteries, which I know you don't like to do.

The beauty of an EV is that one with 1/2hp or 2hp works every bit as well as one that makes 100hp. Probably better, in fact. ICE engines give up thermodynamic efficiency as you scale them down, which is a technical disincentive to making really small ones. So the real efficiency promise of EVs is in making them smaller and slower than ICE vehicles, in a regime where ICE vehicles can't offer comparable performance per kWh and in which household-level power generation makes sense. Start making 20kW e-bikes and those advantages disappear.

Compared to a 20 kW e-bike, a 20kW gas bike is just about as efficient per calorie of fossil fuel, costs less to make and buy, and lasts much longer than the most expensive and energy-intensive part of the e-bike (the battery). A 1kW e-bike bests a 1kW gas bike in most ways, though. And in a real city, a 1kW e-bike gets you there in almost the same elapsed time as a 20kW bike, but with a small fraction of the power consumed.

Chalo

Just more cluelessness in your prejudice against against any ebike capable of more than pedal bike performance. That's about like the electrical engineer who told me I could only run my bike for a 6 minutes because I have a 20ah battery and draw up to 200A. Even with my much higher than typical load, my bike only draws that peak power for a few seconds, and since I cruise at roughly the same speed on all my ebikes, I get essentially the same consumption per mile on all of them. The difference in power levels really only changes acceleration time in normal riding. The extra consumption due to slightly higher average speed of the higher power bikes compared my cargo bike at just 5kw is offset by the fact that my cargo bike spends a greater percentage of it's time in the lower efficiency range of operation.

With my typical cruise of 35-40mph I've ended up consistently right around 60wh/mi for all my ebikes for nearly 4 years. The more efficient motors I'm now using have dropped that to 50wh/mi. Compare that to the 1000+wh/mi in gasoline for a car or 500wh/mi for a motorcycle and it's laughable to insinuate that pollution is the same. While I left out the losses of my charger, everything else is accounted for, and your analysis leaves out the fact that well under 5% of Costa Rica's electricity is generated using fossil fuels.

Natural gas is used for the backup gas turbine generators to fill in during peak time demands near the end of dry season when the reservoirs run low and they want to keep the dams working at steady state output for optimum efficiency, as well as to regularly run them to keep them in good operating condition. Over 80% of CR's electricity is hydro generated, with the rest being wind, geothermal, and solar, leaving only a tiny percentage being provided by the gas turbine generators. If being green is important to you, then there's no better location on the planet, and CR is working to become the first carbon neutral country in the world. Ebikes are an important part of my daily life now, so complete ebike freedom is a huge plus for me.

In comparison to low power ebikes, all I'd have to do is slow down to the same speeds and to get the same consumption numbers they do. That's because motor my motor is more efficient I have extra friction losses with the tires, and the power required for a given speed is virtually identical otherwise. Not only are my bikes more fun, but the higher speeds they permit makes me better able to safely and seamlessly blend with traffic, making them a more practical form of transportation for me and my family. Saving on my less than 1 penny per mile consumption while sacrificing fun and safety in the process is of no interest to me whatsoever, and the only reason I want to build a solar charging station for my bikes is to stick it to the man that last bit. Plus total independence of transportation has a lot of appeal. I built my own basic transportation, so the next step is to provide my own energy for it.

John

 

[Chalo]

In comparison to low power ebikes, all I'd have to do is slow down to the same speeds and to get the same consumption numbers they do.

Exactly. It's the speed that counts; all other factors are less important by comparison. So the social incentives should be to slow (therefore safe, quiet, and efficient) vehicles rather than to EVs, alternative fuels, or whatever.

Chalo

 

[John in CR]

In comparison to low power ebikes, all I'd have to do is slow down to the same speeds and to get the same consumption numbers they do.

Exactly. It's the speed that counts; all other factors are less important by comparison. So the social incentives should be to slow (therefore safe, quiet, and efficient) vehicles rather than to EVs, alternative fuels, or whatever.

Chalo

Slow....LOL! That'll go over well. Does practical or realistic ever enter your thought process except as directly related to pedal bikes?

 

[Chalo]

Exactly. It's the speed that counts; all other factors are less important by comparison. So the social incentives should be to slow (therefore safe, quiet, and efficient) vehicles rather than to EVs, alternative fuels, or whatever.

Slow....LOL! That'll go over well. Does practical or realistic ever enter your thought process except as directly related to pedal bikes?

I'm not concerned about what will go over well. The fact that poor and working class Republicans exist is evidence that people can be convinced of anything-- even things directly contrary to their interests. So they definitely can be convinced of things that are very much in their interests, for instance safe, quiet, peaceful, inexpensive, slow transportation.

I am concerned about doing the things that must be done if we are to transition comfortably into an energy-scarce future. That means interregional transportation by rail, and slow local surface transportation. Energy hogging for the sake of selfish jollies isn't going to do it, whether you use petroleum, coal, natural gas or electricity. Zooming around at highway speeds is as out of date as heating up your house with incandescent bulbs and then air conditioning the excess heat out. Folks just haven't hit the economic wall yet. Those who haven't figured it out yet are in for a ruder and ruder awakening the longer they stay endarkened. In the meantime, their stupidity and gluttony increases the coming misery for all of us.

Chalo

 

[John in CR]

It just blows right by you that a single 200W solar panel would be enough to supply the energy needs for my transportation. Even with my high performance ebikes the energy needs is immaterial. eg My ebikes require about 1kwh/day, so 30kwh/month. Our family household consumes about 600kwh/mo, and your interest in reducing my energy for transportation even further, when it's already only 5% of our electricity budget is a perfect example of misguided liberal nonsense where the actual numbers make no sense at all.

Keep them coming though, because it's getting entertaining now. What are you going to suggest next, that I can help save the world if I go around and unplug all of the fractional watt electrical vampires in our house when they aren't in use? Have you read the 2 page disposal instructions for those highly toxic expensive light bulbs that you guys forced on everyone else simply to enrich the manufacturers who had you do-gooders in their hip pocket?

John

 

[liveforphysics]

Compared to a 20 kW e-bike, a 20kW gas bike is just about as efficient per calorie of fossil fuel, costs less to make and buy, and lasts much longer than the most expensive and energy-intensive part of the e-bike (the battery).

Looking at it from a coal to ebike perspective vs a gasoline to gas bike perspective is not comparable. You must look at it from a harvesting and refining crude oil to gas bike perspective if you want the whole energy picture.

The energy used to refine that 1gal of gasoline can alone can carry the ebike further than most gas vehicles can travel on it.

 

[Chalo]

If you use 1kW per day while riding 5kW to 20kW bikes, it's only because you don't ride long or far or frequently, and furthermore it means that a 1kW bike would be more than adequate for the job. A heavy, aerodynamically bluff bike like yours, with a physically inert riding position, doesn't even approach 30mph on a kilowatt. 50mph takes about 6kW, give or take. So if you are cruising around at 35-50mph and burn only a kWh per day, that implies you do it for a few short minutes and then your day's riding is over.

So congratulations on living really close to where you need to go. Why are you in a hurry?

 

[Hangdog98]

My friend just returned from Austria where in our conversation he mentioned that the train lines have no fences around them and he could see the train running alongside the roadway as he drove along. His immediate thought was how dangerous that must be to have railway lines without fencing... until he realized that he had no such concerns about the 4 lane highway he was driving on that was also unfenced and far more likely to kill an unwary pedestrian than the railway was. That's what is happening here. So many people are looking at something they haven't seen before in the 3kW eBike and are thinking how dangerous it must be, all the while travelling at high speeds, just inches from other 2 tonne vehicles, half of them travelling in the opposite direction. "quick grab your iPhone and take a picture of that dangerous eBike from your moving car".

The Phantom Menace.

Chalo, there is no way to control climate change, man-made or not. I can't believe people still fall for that crap. Pollution of any kind is a product of population. A lifetime of carbon-footprint reduction that you do is immediately outpopulated and erased as China and India alone create over 100 new people every minute of every hour of every day.

 

[John in CR]

If you use 1kW per day while riding 5kW to 20kW bikes, it's only because you don't ride long or far or frequently, and furthermore it means that a 1kW bike would be more than adequate for the job. A heavy, aerodynamically bluff bike like yours, with a physically inert riding position, doesn't even approach 30mph on a kilowatt. 50mph takes about 6kW, give or take. So if you are cruising around at 35-50mph and burn only a kWh per day, that implies you do it for a few short minutes and then your day's riding is over.

So congratulations on living really close to where you need to go. Why are you in a hurry?

Once again you missed it. I use 50wh/mile, and for almost 4 years 60wh/mile with other motors. That's long term average and basic arithmetic tells you 20mi/day...7k miles/year with typical cruise 35-40mph. I rarely hurry, but on those occasions riding hard consumption is obviously higher. Characterizing my normal riding as quick and safe would be the best way to explain it. From a stoplight I zip out ahead of all traffic and maintain that distance for comfortable safe space. Cars can't hit me because I'm not within striking distance. Why else?...because it's fun and unlike yours, my time is valuable, but it's really road and traffic conditions that determine my speed. If you could achieve that performance on your pedal bike, of course you'd do it, but instead you're stuck at the side of the road where all the crap goes breathing those exhaust fumes using far more energy.

And no a 1kw bike is nowhere near sufficient, and geared for 60mph, the 5kw on my cargo bike isn't sufficient. Some of the hills I need to climb, it won't do even by myself, much less with a kid or two aboard. My next cargo bike will have at least 20kw peak input so it will be a little better on the highway and be able to climb any mountain I point it at with whatever load I want to carry. Flexibility like that requires real power, but even then my energy consumption will still be in the 50-60wh/mile range in normal errand riding.

John

 

[Hangdog98]

Harassed to death for not submitting to the will of a bureaucrat.

A pensioner suffered a heart attack after he struggled with police who stopped him for riding his motorised bicycle without a helmet, a Sydney inquest has heard.

Gheorghe Lisita, 63, from Claymore in Sydney's southwest, died after he refused to give his details to police who had stopped him while he was riding through nearby Campbelltown on May 28, 2011 the NSW Coroner's Court was told on Monday. Mr Lisita, a pensioner with a heart condition, argued with officers when they tried to issue him with an infringement notice for not wearing a helmet. A scuffle ensued and Mr Lisita was arrested and handcuffed. He then collapsed to the ground and could not be revived by paramedics, counsel assisting the coroner, Anna Johnson, said. Ms Johnson said the inquest would hear that one of the police officers drew his taser during the scuffle but said he put it away without using it. The inquest would examine "the use of force by the two officers and the way the arrest was conducted", including the drawing of the taser, Ms Johnson said. "I'm also concerned about the way in which the investigation of these events unfolded and whether critical incident guidelines were followed," she said. The inquest heard that Mr Lisita was jailed for five months in 2004 for repeatedly driving while disqualified but that he was allowed to ride the motorised bicycle. Mr Lisita's wife was too distressed to attend the hearing, Ms Johnson said. "She is particularly distressed at the circumstances of his death and that he should have died with handcuffs on in a public place," she said. The inquest continues before NSW State Coroner Mary Jerram.

Had he been wearing his helmet... it would have saved his life yes? Thank God for tasers and those laws 'eh.

 

[The fingers]

Tragic, atypical cycling death. "To protect and to serve" should be changed to: "We protect our own".

 

[Lessss]

After 7 years of pull overs I finally got a ticket today.

They were saying new legislation has been passed and I said no there wasn't so they gave me a ticket.
I watch the legislative agenda and have been emailing MLAs for 6 years trying to get them to pass ebike legislation, there has been no new legislation.

Looks like I will have to fight this in court. Could use some donations to pay a lawyer/ and or the ticket
ebike@rogers.com for PP

 

[RoadWrinkle]

Sorry to be a downer, but if you ride/drive like a hooligan you deserve to get a ticket. If you ride without a helmet you deserve to get a ticket. Not to mention both examples also pose a real threat to the use of ebikes on public streets in general. Soon laws will emerge from the bowels of the do-gooder legislative bodies to basically turn ebikes into motorcycles in terms of legal requirement's. Then you will need a license and reg, and insurance, and blinkers, and brake lights, and...and... Also, helmets not only can save your life, they can save the public at large from the risk of catastrophic liability posed by the brain donor's that shun helmet's (and thus create a much higher chance of serious injury). Rider protection is not the only compelling public policy behind the enactment of helmet laws...it is also to keep auto insurance rates down.

 

[el_walto]

After 7 years of pull overs I finally got a ticket today.

They were saying new legislation has been passed and I said no there wasn't so they gave me a ticket.
I watch the legislative agenda and have been emailing MLAs for 6 years trying to get them to pass ebike legislation, there has been no new legislation.

Looks like I will have to fight this in court. Could use some donations to pay a lawyer/ and or the ticket
ebike@rogers.com for PP

Can you post some details as to why you got a ticket, and why you've been getting pulled over for 7 years. I ride my ebike all the time and have never once gotten pulled over by a cop. Was the ticket for speeding, or driving recklessly? Please post more details, especially since you are asking people for donations.

 

[cal3thousand]

After 7 years of pull overs I finally got a ticket today.

They were saying new legislation has been passed and I said no there wasn't so they gave me a ticket.
I watch the legislative agenda and have been emailing MLAs for 6 years trying to get them to pass ebike legislation, there has been no new legislation.

Looks like I will have to fight this in court. Could use some donations to pay a lawyer/ and or the ticket
ebike@rogers.com for PP

Can you post some details as to why you got a ticket, and why you've been getting pulled over for 7 years. I ride my ebike all the time and have never once gotten pulled over by a cop. Was the ticket for speeding, or driving recklessly? Please post more details, especially since you are asking people for donations.

I agree... a good story might get you some bucks...

 

[RoadWrinkle]

Scan the ticket you got and post it here as a .jpg attachment...

 

[John in CR]

....If you ride without a helmet you deserve to get a ticket. Not to mention both examples also pose a real threat to the use of ebikes on public streets in general. Soon laws will emerge from the bowels of the do-gooder legislative bodies to basically turn ebikes into motorcycles in terms of legal requirement's. Then you will need a license and reg, and insurance, and blinkers, and brake lights, and...and... Also, helmets not only can save your life, they can save the public at large from the risk of catastrophic liability posed by the brain donor's that shun helmet's (and thus create a much higher chance of serious injury). Rider protection is not the only compelling public policy behind the enactment of helmet laws...it is also to keep auto insurance rates down.

RoadWrinkle,

Save your idiotic comments about helmets for elsewhere. There's not a shread of evidence that helmets increase overall safety. The primary reason (among others) is because of risk compensation. ie Your brain feels safer in a helmet, so you ride differently. It's no different that you naturally walk more carefully along a path with a sheer cliff than you do on a park sidewalk. The results of riding more dangerously or with less care have shown up here on the forum time after time with the most serious accidents happening to helmet worshipers.

Of course it makes sense to wear helmets for certain types of cycling where going down is so common place that it's part of the sport, and people know enough to make that choice without a mandate.

Your comment about someone not wearing a helmet being a bad thing for ebiking couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, it's you helmet worshipers who are bad for cycling in general, because it has lead to the perception that cycling is a dangerous activity. You don't worry about people walking on sidewalks wearing helmets, yet that's a more dangerous activity. I wouldn't doubt that you even wear a common cycling helmet, which is in direct contradiction to the fact that the majority of serious cycling head injuries are injuries to the face, not the top of the head which is about the only place where bike helmets are reasonably effective.

The overall safety ends up about the same, so if people what to wear helmets that should be their choice. Laws mandating helmets are the wrong way to go though, so keep the cute helmet worshiper comments that are borne of ignorance of actual facts and statistics to yourself. Helmets discourage cycling, and that's contrary to overall public health and safety.

John

 

[Jolly Jumper]

Helmets discourage cycling, and that's contrary to overall public health and safety.

No its the haters who do it. Death from cycle accidents are nano compaired to the car/truck/superbike statistics.

You have to wear a helmet when you go on this warzone called street becouse you cant avoid all failures from the other multi ton multi KW vehicles.
Expect always drunken driver without licens or fleeing bank robbers or or or. streets are dangerous so safety gear is substanzial if u dont want run around like a zombie with a broken skull

 

[canadianbikeguy]

Tragic, atypical cycling death. "To protect and to serve" should be changed to: "We protect our own".

Nothing new there. Its the biggest gang in the world, everything from the meter maid, to transit officers, city, county, state/prov and federal and there are no boundries.

 

[Lessss]

Got pulled over a few times 7 years ago, when ebikes were new to them(no ticket and not bad driving), then nothing for the last 5 no got pulled and a ticket. It was a registration check. I heard them say, "yeah him" I I was approaching the stop.

First thing out of my mouth was 1.21 they said yeah they used to be legal but the law changed, I replied no it hasn't nothing was passed in the legislature or published in the gazette - instant contempt of cop citation...

ticket is carbon copy bad unreadable so I doubt the writing will be readable in a pic

Anyone who have read my posts knows I've tried emailing every member of the legislature trying to gt them to pass ebike legislation.