Grayborg Warp g

HAL9000v2.0

HAL9000v2.0

10 kW
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
977
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
I have started with "Grayborg line" some 7 years ago. First one (warp a) was a micro scooter with 24V 280W motor and 15Amp controller from accu dril. Made so small so it can fit behind seat in my Bertone X1/9. It has 2s 12V7Ah bat and a top speed 30km/h. Of course that on the picture is only frame and tyres, everything else moved to next project :)

warp b,c and d was 3 versions of steer-by-wire ICE motrorbike that one day will become electric (Perm PGM 132 waiting for controller) Test drive of warp c ----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_2DAMiJjhU

e,f and finaly g was 3 versions of frame for e bike. I am ended with g after few km without rear suspension on f.

So, frame is made of 2 pieces 1,2mm CrMo steel bended on CNC machine and welded to form tube 73x155mm. Controller WAS untill few days ago 36-72V 20A Crystalyte. Now is dead and I am waiting for new 4110 to come :lol: One of the wires on thermal protection fell off and it was overheated. I do not understan why they didn't use PNP instead ov NPN (or Viceversa).

Motor is x 504 and I am more than happy with it. I have tested it on 108V 66A for 3minutes (Than 2 batteries were dead), top speed on 5% downhill was 106 km/h and on same road uphill 65km/h. Motor was slightly warm but SLA was boiling.
Batteries are 6s 12V9Ah SLA in standard mode and 8s 12v 9AH in faster mode.
Now some pictures.
On the end is sneak preview of version H - combinaton of d and g...
Warp a
Warpa.jpg

Warpefirstsketch.jpg

Warpf.jpg


F was never painted because I strip him off for next version.

Warpfframefinished.jpg


Warpg.jpg

Warpgbotomtubeend.jpg

Warpgcabelholder.jpg


36V and 72V key next to the cover with new core duo style cooler
Warpgcoverandkeys.jpg

Warpgcoverclosed.jpg

Intel inside
Warpgintelinside.jpg

Ready for 4110 :)
Warpgreadyfor4110.jpg

Seat adjusment screw
Warpgseatadjustmentscrew.jpg

torque arm and rear breake holder
Warpgtorquearmandbrakeplate.jpg


Warphall800x600.jpg

Warphblue.jpg

Warphskeleton.jpg

Warphwhite.jpg
 
HAL9000v2.0 said:
Motor is x 504 and I am more than happy with it. I have tested it on 108V 66A for 3 minutes (Then 2 batteries were dead), top speed on 5% downhill was 106 km/h and on same road uphill 65km/h. Motor was slightly warm but SLA was boiling.
Click to expand...
Wow... think of the Peukert's Effect on that... to drain the batteries in three minutes you would likely be pulling 5C or more and that means that about 80% of the battery is lost to the Peukert's Effect.

:arrow: You would do well to switch to either NiMh SubC's or LiFePO4 so that you can minimize the Peukert problem.

Interesting... but so much power getting used up so fast isn't exactly going to give you much range.
 
safe said:
Wow... think of the Peukert's Effect on that... to drain the batteries in three minutes you would likely be pulling 5C or more and that means that about 80% of the battery is lost to the Peukert's Effect.
Click to expand...
It was more like 7.3C!
I have done that only to make two points.
1. To see when x5 will die. (On 108V, 66A, 4 minutes...slightly warm and no visible damage inside.)
2. To kill batteries so I can show it to my wife and buy LiPo :D (6 of them are still working so - LiPO, see you next time... :cry: )
safe said:
You would do well to switch to either NiMh SubC's or LiFePO4 so that you can minimize the Peukert problem.
Click to expand...
I am looking for a long time now for affordable Kokam LiPo, last offer for 74V24Ah was 2500€. But now I like NiMH size F very much and...Will see...
safe said:
Interesting... but so much power getting used up so fast isn't exactly going to give you much range.
Click to expand...
Normally setup is 36/72V 20A. I am using 36v for cruising around town and 72V for climbing home (4,5km uphill) and I have range about 25km (81V fully charged to 60V cutoff)

lazarus2405 said:
Pfft, Intel fanboy. If my controller needs cooling, I'll use a heatsink from an old AMD Athlon build. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...


I don’t care about processor type until it is Windows propelled. I want to ride my bike not open-and-shut-cover-push-rear-brake-front-brake-and-shift-into-2nd-gear-stuff every few km... :lol:
 
HAL9000v2.0 said:
But now I like NiMH size F very much and...Will see...
Click to expand...
Before you buy "F" size check out the SubC. They give higher "C" rates and if you run the numbers they are very low priced in comparision.

SC3500_1.jpg


http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=452

$2.59 in volumes above 100.

I'm planning to do a "solderless pack" design for mine. :p
 
HAL9000v2.0 said:
Are you reading my mind ?!?!? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Click to expand...
It's the new trend in pack design...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=768722

http://kern.hanson1.com/micro/

spt.jpg


http://www.modelelectronicscorp.com/browse_product.php?pid=30

http://www.modelelectronicscorp.com/view_products.php?tid=2

Note: There is a mistake to avoid... do not try to build a tube that uses screws to hold the batteries together, they need to be spring loaded in order to deal with expansion and contraction.

Also, if you want that litttle "extra" there is silver paste that you can buy that increases the conductivity between cells. If you do this right it's actually BETTER than solder, not just easier. :p
 
Hi Hal,

I like your work! On version H it looks like you must be planning a hub centre steering system, which would be really cool. How do you plan to route the steering linkage through those curving arms, or is it simply not shown in your drawings?
 
Malcolm said:
Hi Hal,

I like your work! On version H it looks like you must be planning a hub centre steering system, which would be really cool. How do you plan to route the steering linkage through those curving arms, or is it simply not shown in your drawings?
Click to expand...

Steering is via low-friction cables like ones used in aircrafts. This is only sketch - only main parts. I am not quite finish with hub. For now there is 117 parts and I have to draw few more. weight is 1,2 kg and plan is to be under 1. here is the link on page (not finished, have no time, maybe next winter...) where is short decription about b,c,and d ---> http://sucic.org/xmoto/graybork_1.htm
 
safe said:
Also, if you want that litttle "extra" there is silver paste that you can buy that increases the conductivity between cells. If you do this right it's actually BETTER than solder, not just easier. :p
Click to expand...

Thanks for great links, I,we just tested come Cu based fat founded in garage and resistance is cca. 0,2ohm between two wires inserted in fat and 1mm apart. when bateries are conected distance is allmost zero so the ressistance will be tollerable.
 
HAL9000v2.0 said:
This is only sketch - only main parts. I am not quite finish with hub. For now there is 117 parts and I have to draw few more. weight is 1,2 kg and plan is to be under 1. here is the link on page (not finished, have no time, maybe next winter...) where is short decription about b,c,and d ---> http://sucic.org/xmoto/graybork_1.htm
Click to expand...

Like the Di Fazio inspired designs 8)
 
It'll be interesting to see how your steer-by-cable system works out Zvonimir. I guess it'll need a good tensioning system to eliminate any play, but I'm sure you've got that all worked out. I didn't realise that the Italjet had hub steering – that's very useful information and a surprisingly innovative approach on a scooter. What's the advantage of the torsion bar over the coil shock, is it just neater, or is there some performance advantage?

One day I'd like to build a recumbent or feet-forward motorbike with this type of steering arrangement, although probably more conventional steering linkage. It has great potential for building a low-drag machine.
 
Looks like someone is getting tired of dealing with SLA.

Good.
 
kbarrett said:
Looks like someone is getting tired of dealing with SLA.
Click to expand...
I'm a representative from the "Lead Battery Consortium" and I just want to say that we want people to stay with lead because it's cheap and plentiful.

I'm also on the "Office Paper Products Consortium" and want to say that paper will always be an essential part of your office needs. :wink:

Seriously... we all want the expensive exotic batteries, but it all comes down to how much we want to spend on them. It makes one seriously be tempted to risk buying duct taped LiFePO4's from China because we're all so desperate for some realistically priced solution. :shock:
 
If you really wanted to save money, you would replace this electronic stuff with something called a "fixie", and these things called pedals.

You could run your bike on bean and rice burritos.
 
As chairman of "Warp Core Batteries Consortium" must say that I will stay with SLA for a while because some major developing founds were cut back due to renovation of Consortium habitat.

To "Office Paper Products Consortium": Dear Sirs, From now on I will print everything...
 
HAL9000v2.0 said:
As chairman of "Warp Core Batteries Consortium" must say that I will stay with SLA for a while because some major developing founds were cut back due to renovation of Consortium habitat.

To "Office Paper Products Consortium": Dear Sirs, From now on I will print everything...
Click to expand...

As a member of the "Kouncil for the Equitable and Reasonable Promotion of LiMn over Other Competing Kemestries" (KERPLOCK), I must say that quality LiMn cells can be an affordable, safe alternative to SLAs with exceptional energy density, with power density second only to the most advanced LiFePO4 cells.

However, I must also stress the risks involved in the products promoted by the "Warp Core Batteries Consortium". Their technology is unsafe in vehicle application, large and small.

Captain! We can't shut it down! The magnetic locks are failing! Warp Core breach imminent!
 
So far,
SLA 6x 72V9Ah 648Wh 13,56kg ?C max?A 6s1p 128$
SubC 300x 72V17.5Ah 1260Wh 17,69kg 10C max175A 60s5p 927$
SizeF 60x 72V14Ah 1008Wh 14,76kg 3C max40A 60s1p 780$


And KERPLOCK recomending which type of LiMn?
 

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