Greentime controllers

[xmasta]

So, got the controller finally. TNT picked it up at 28 and it was delivered by 5th, so good job by delivery service at least
The package was kept well but the box inside the package wasnt so much - they hadnt handled it very well in storage at china i think..



that had resulted pretty hardly bent attatchment rail, one phase wire was crushed so hard against the cover that some strands were broken inside. One lead had its plastic clip broken.

Opened it up too to check for any inside noteworthy flaws and well, to make pictures of how the controller looked like as new, incase i need later.
Few capacitors were soldered in a "funky" way.. looked like got stuck to wire and were soldered like that. Luckily those are in parallel so no big harm done, even when the legs touch. (but i did pull it down later)



Oh, and even tho i asked for 52v LVC they sent 32v LVC, asked if i'm okay with it before but my answer was, that only if they give me instructions on how to change it (resistor values etc) - havent still gotten any, asked again, still silence from Leo.
So thats initial overview of my purchase.

 

[xmasta]

i just checked greentime website on aliexpress, seems only a few controllers have wiring diagrams, not sure if he has another website. there is a picture on the previous page of this thread with wiring diagram annotated.
here it is again shrunk down the size a bit so you can see the wiring ( from bonald)

View attachment 1
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=163301

I have all the wires on hes picture but then some.. can somebody help me identifying those please?



1. purple single wire - on board runs to same place where "controller on-off" goes, whats it for?
2. white loop - not a regen loop that is orange. If i have it connected - it starts to spin the motor about 1/3 speed on random direction, with no throttle input, just goes.. as soon as controller gets powered up.
3. single bullet kinda connector header yellow wire with green stripe, on board runs into some S+ marked pin. ideas?

Also how do the brakes work?
What is the difference between high and low breake? also high has only one single wire. Tried shorting low break - no effect, tried shorting High yellow to low black ground - no effect.

appreciate anyones help

 

[xmasta]

did i get screwed now with the 32v LVC and because of this, my regen breaks dont engage because my battery is way over some derived value?
Controller is for up to 72v and i'm running 16s lipo, 60v nominal..

does anyone know what resistors change the LVC value!? Leo is still hiding and doesnt answer this question..

 

[whatever]

what are the markings on the board where those wires connect. We did sort out most of the connections, I think it was previous in this thread ( there are a couple of threads relating to greentime controllers).

 

[xmasta]

oh crap, i forgot. i highly doubt raising the LVC will activate regen, as a 60v LVC will activate regen at 84v.
(LVC voltage)*1.2/(x+1.2)=3
That is the equation. LVC occurs when the whole thing equals 3. the x represents the value in kohm that you replace RJ15k with.
The location of RJ15k can be found in the PDF file layout of the board, it is near the VCC. That is the 15fet board with 75v fets in the PDF. But, I cannot take credit for this. stewrobb gave me the equation.

Guys help me out here, i have that exact board. According to this equation and the LVC resistor i have on my RJ15k spot, (SMD resistor marked 393 -> 39k) the LVC is 101V - if true, i dont think the controller should work at all, atm i only cant get the regen working.. so did I calculate something wrong or.. ? (after spinning the motor up, shorting "low brake" leads do nothing, driving "voltage" into "high brake" also doesnt seem to care about the spinning motor).
I ordered 52v lvc, Leo sent me 32v - still fails on sending instructions on changing the value - but I gathered most information from here.. but now this one makes me question if the info is outdated or has mine set low from software with this heavy resistor and now should play the equation around?
I'm running 16s lipo so thats 60v nominal.

And I believe wrong LVC to be the regen not working fault because of what John said in the thread somewhere in the past.

The HVC for regen is determined by the LVC setting, so no you want to decide on a voltage and order your controller with that pack in mind, since the voltage for regen cutoff is fixed and the spread between LVC and HVC isn't great enough to cover multiple voltages. After the fact you can only change LVC via a resistor mod, not terribly difficult but it does require opening the controller.

John

So If it's 32v atm like Leo said it to be (like wtf application uses 72v controller with 32v lvc anyway?!) then I'm probably "over the regen ceiling" all the time.

Oh and i found from various pictures and information definitions for nr. 1 and nr. 3 on my picture,
nr.1 being just battery voltage, marked usually as "voltage" (for some panel that reads it i guess, having that plug).
nr.3 being "speed signal". Not sure if thats hz or pwm or what, didnt see being mentioned.

but Nr.2 is still the wtf wire, cant use controller when it's connected. On board runs to pads marked "E1" column. Second row is just ground it seems so yeah, E1 it is.

xm

 

[xmasta]

Good news everyone!
The equation is still game. Turned out that sneaky soldering guys had decided to stack resistors..
As I was going with experimentation route to just increase the resistance to get my regen working - desoldering revealed the truth:



So 39k + 15k in parallel makes up for 10.8k resistance and in Ian equation this makes up for 30v LVC.
Now I slammed on 20k resistor that should put my LVC around 53v that I can accept and voila, both regens are now working

 

[John in CR]

Excellent Xmasta and thx for sharing in such detail. I've known of the mod but never actually did it myself despite having a couple of controllers in need of it. Now I'll have the confidence to go for it.

 

[Baron]

72v 45a 1500W controller arrived the other day, still playing around with the phase/hall wiring. anyone have tips for finding the correct phase/hall combination? i'm using these guides:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484

https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Determining_the_Wiring_for_a_Brushless_Motor

trying to figure it out. i'm using a 3a fuse and i'm measuring amps with a meter.

i tried matching all colors first, the wheel spun backwards. so far i have tried all 6 different phase combinations but i haven't touched the halls. 3 combos made the wheel spin backwards, 3 forwards. So if i understand correctly, one of the 3 forward combos is the right one, and the other two will draw unusually high amps?

left all colors matching, but swapped green and yellow phase. motor spins the right way, stayed under 5A at full throttle with no load on the motor. I thought this was the right combo, but when i test road my bike, it felt a little rough to start from a stop and it wouldn't start at all if i was rolling backwards. but otherwise it ran normally.

btw, my motor is the one from this kit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-LCD-Display-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Conversion-/371289491857?hash=item5672940991

can i just disconnect the halls and run it sensorless?

do i need a new throttle for 72v or is my old throttle from the 48v kit okay?

 

[John in CR]

You have to be careful with the sensored/sensorless controllers, because it can run sensorless when you have a bad combo. That's exactly what it sounds like is happening with the 3 forward and 3 reverse. If you're lucky the one that is the valid combo with that set of static halls is one of the 3 forwards. I would try all 3, and the one with better startup is the good one. If all three of the forwards start poorly, then pick one to stick with, and find the right combo of halls.

 

[Baron]

You have to be careful with the sensored/sensorless controllers, because it can run sensorless when you have a bad combo. That's exactly what it sounds like is happening with the 3 forward and 3 reverse. If you're lucky the one that is the valid combo with that set of static halls is one of the 3 forwards. I would try all 3, and the one with better startup is the good one. If all three of the forwards start poorly, then pick one to stick with, and find the right combo of halls.

I think you're right about it running sensorless with a bad combo. I tested all three of the forward rotation combos under no-load, all three drew identical amps at the same throttle positions. All were around 2A max WOT. So far I've road tested 2/3 of the forward combinations, neither would start when the wheel was moving backwards. It would just make a groaning sound. I hope I haven't damaged the controller or motor..I'll start testing hall combinations tomorrow.

 

[Baron]

Just did some more hall/phase testing...I think I'm running into trouble. First I tried keeping all phase wires the same (matching colors), and tested all 6 different hall combos. All 6 ran backwards, I didn't test these any further than that. Next I swapped the yellow and green phase and tested the 6 hall combos again. 5 ran forward and one was stuck. One of the 5 did run at slightly lower amps than the rest.

When I unplug the halls and test the motor it runs at slightly higher amps than anything I tested. Could I have broken/damaged halls and the controller is just running in sensorless mode? Or should I keep hunting for the right combo?

 

[whatever]

you wont hurt the hall sensors.
I cant remember if these controllers have a 'self-learn' wire connection? If they have self learn wires, that might be involved with your issue.

 

[Baron]

It turns out one of my hall wires was completely broken inside the axle. I only figured this out when I opened up my hub motor for the first time today...that explains why the controller behaved like a sensorless when I thought all the halls were connected. disregard my above posts

 

[Baron]

I opened up my motor and got my halls fixed up, but the controller is still behaving like it's running sensorless. Did more hall/phase testing and every single combination either ran forward or reverse. Nothing else like stuck or rough rotation..so it must be running sensorless.

I verified the motor isn't the problem by testing with another controller. Halls/phase testing showed it was definitely running sensored correctly, with only one combination running forward smoothly.

you wont hurt the hall sensors.
I cant remember if these controllers have a 'self-learn' wire connection? If they have self learn wires, that might be involved with your issue.

Does anyone have more info about this? The first time I wired up my controller to my motor, the hall wires in the motor were damaged. So maybe it's stuck on sensorless mode? I sent a message to the seller......

 

[Baron]

I figured out the solution to my sensorless problem. For anyone else who runs into this problem, I'll detail my findings here. The two small white wires on my controller are the self-learn/self-study wires. Basically, hook up your controller to your bike as normal, but also connect the white wires before turning the controller on. Turn the controller on, the wheel should start spinning on it's own, if it's the wrong direction, unplug the white wires and plug them in again. Let the wheel spin up (you should have your bike upside down or at least rear wheel off the ground) for a bit and then unplug the white wires. That's it. The controller is now set up to run sensored and will store this setting in memory. Normal operating mode is the white wires disconnected.

This site was really helpful in figuring this out: http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?p=2373

 

[miuan]

I just realized this myself yesterday. Pretty cool feature compared to trial and error of my former Infineon units.
Also I set the resistor value to 23k via a trim pot. The regen is somewhat weak on 20S and MP2 motor, but works. I have to install a voltmeter to see if the regen current really goes into battery, but judging from the stone cold controller temperature AND motor after this morning ride, I am pretty positive that it does. One thing that I don't like is the touchy throttle response, and cruise plug doesn't seem to instantly fix speed like the newer Infineons do.

 

[whatever]

ah so the white wires are self learn..........excellent info ........thnx

 

[Tekler]

Hello everyone.

I have a 24fet Greentime controller setted to 48v (LVC 41.5v) When used at 48 was perfect, really perfect. But now I use 72v and the eBrake not working. Anyone know WHERE is VLC resistance to change it?

I have read the whole thread and, in the model of 24fet, no one says exactly is the LVC resistance.

Someone can help me? The resistances near VCC are not... these lower the voltage to 5v

Help please...

 

[Skalabala]

Hello everyone.

I have a 24fet Greentime controller setted to 48v (LVC 41.5v) When used at 48 was perfect, really perfect. But now I use 72v and the eBrake not working. Anyone know WHERE is VLC resistance to change it?

I have read the whole thread and, in the model of 24fet, no one says exactly is the LVC resistance.

Someone can help me? The resistances near VCC are not... these lower the voltage to 5v

Help please...

Not answering your question but did you check cap and fet voltage ratings?

 

[Tekler]

Yes. The voltage of caps are 100v. The fets are IRF4110.

The controller is ready to operate between 48 and 84v. At 72v works really fine. But when I bought the controller I was using a 48v battery, I asked Leo to configurate the LVC for 48v battery. Now I use a 72v and the low brake dont works because LVC is too low. Need to change LVC. I understand why and how change it, but WHERE is the resistor... How identify it... :? :?

This is the controller:

http://es.aliexpress.com/item/24FET-IRFB4110-s-3000W-48-84V-80Amax-BLDC-motor-controller-EV-brushless-speed-controller-sensor-sensorless/522263950.html?adminSeq=200632866&shopNumber=313864

 

[Skalabala]

It is a hard one :/ Are you in contact with Leo? Did you try to trace the brake wire?

 

[whatever]

from page 14 of this thread:

oh crap, i forgot. i highly doubt raising the LVC will activate regen, as a 60v LVC will activate regen at 84v.
(LVC voltage)*1.2/(x+1.2)=3
That is the equation. LVC occurs when the whole thing equals 3. the x represents the value in kohm that you replace RJ15k with.
The location of RJ15k can be found in the PDF file layout of the board, it is near the VCC. That is the 15fet board with 75v fets in the PDF. But, I cannot take credit for this. stewrobb gave me the equation.

 

[whatever]

also
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=40983

 

[Tekler]

Really thanks to both.

The problem is that my controller is 24 fet and the controller that they speaks is other model. I`m little bit lazy and want the exact location of the resistor RJ15 in the 24 fet controller... :lol:

Edit...

In this pic you can see everything is near to VCC. Maybe is the 1502 (15kΩ) resistor the secret of the problem. In VCC there are 81v with battery fully charged. I need LCV at 60v. Using the equation I get 22.8kΩ. Replacing the resistor would work?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/riivl65zdmp6ktg/IMG-20151031-WA0000.jpg?dl=0

 

[John Bozi]

i just checked greentime website on aliexpress, seems only a few controllers have wiring diagrams, not sure if he has another website. there is a picture on the previous page of this thread with wiring diagram annotated.
here it is again shrunk down the size a bit so you can see the wiring ( from bonald)

Im having trouble seeing the on off switch colours could anyone confirm via text?

please Im trying to solder right now