Greentime controllers

[kentlim26]

Actually i have also strongly felt that is the 3 speed setting has been mentioned by John, has cause the output amps to reach 52. I wish to type them down, just i had a fear i could be wrong. i have read other user the default setting for 3 way speed, is middle 2nd speed, not max. i could be wrong, pls correct me. i also saw your photos hasn't plug in any 3- way speed, was that working ? have try all out the 3 way speed ?

kent

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Everybody here speaks English, and we have one miscommunication here after another.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Actually i have also strongly felt that is the 3 speed setting has been mentioned by John, has cause the output amps to reach 52. I wish to type them down, just i had a fear i could be wrong. i have read other user the default setting for 3 way speed, is middle 2nd speed, not max. i could be wrong, pls correct me. i also saw your photos hasn't plug in any 3- way speed, was that working ? have try all out the 3 way speed ?

kent

Thats a good call. When I got my 18 Fet 4110 from Ed Lyen all those years ago {good controller btw} I thought the X5304 looked hella slow at 72v when I was testing it. So I wired up the 3 speed, put it to max, and tested it, and hey presto, much faster.

@Methods: have you made an understandable error {in the circumstances, rushing, time constraints} and not wired up the 3 speed and just assumed that Leo/Leo's Elf's left the controller in the highest setting?? Its eminently possible that it is in the medium setting.

Good shout Kent.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Where can I buy one of those invisible rotors?

 

[whatever]

I just want to emphasise that as far as I know there hasn't been a supplier would install fets of your choice
( and it turns out genuine), in the past I've had to organise fets/ buy controllers from xc/ get them sent to
someone who could swap the fets( in china), and then get sent out of china.....not an easy task.
I've not used keywin/cellman as you can buy directly from xc if you have a chinese contact, I really think
greentime is a great find.
I suspect you could probably buy xc controllers organise them to go to greentime and get requested fets installed.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Methods,To assume that good english means no communication problems is a huge mistake, as was special orders in how many emails did you say...50?. That would probably confuse me and I'm pretty thorough. You told me to arrange an order for 5 stock controllers with 4110's at max settings, so I did, because I figured you wanted to check out these boards, since they were working well with my hard to drive motors. Whatever you did in lots of correspondence other than simply send payment is likely the cause of your issues.

I am with John on this one. The main language of choice at this forum is...English. Yet there is persistent confusion, frock-ups, accusations, counter-accusations etc. Often, speaking the same language as somebody else merely allows you to get into an even worse mess with them than if they didn't speak English at all. Leo is the salesman, not the engineer, the more links in chain, the more something can go wrong, and here is the thing, we are not even sure something went wrong.

My 6 orders with Leo for almost 20 controllers have gone fine, unless your special requests messed up my pair 24s. Hopefully the low current setting is just that controller (Worst case it's something we can both easily work around) Maybe the mistake was simply forgetting 1 shunt wire, or maybe it's simply caused by a 3 speed setting and not a mistake at all. Did you think to order 100% as setting #2 like I always do to ensure the default is 100%.

Until we get a definitive answer to this question I am going to give Leo the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know the cause and it's contrary to my experience to date with Leo where all controllers have met or exceeded spec in terms of current limits.

I got 52Amps from 12s1p 18650 ebay A123 on my 12Fet 36v controller. The cells failed and burned but I got my 50A and left my garage floor looking like the rejects section at a Durex Factory.

I trust Leo just fine and will continue to do business with him, and I certainly wouldn't have given my recommendation if I didn't already have a favorable track record with him. That's the way I work, and I don't do things like order a competitor's product just to find fault, especially in such a public manner and with made up stuff like about the fets.

It was reasonable for Methods to suggest that the FET's were fake. My heart dropped when I opened up my controllers. I just assumed I had been ripped off. But I took my time, did some ghetto tests, did some basic physical manipulation, took zoom photos and uploaded them to the net. Methods has undoubtedly applied scientific rigour but scientific rigour comes in many guises. First rule of Science? Observations. Methods said that he had observed thousands of fets....but an amateur like me knew that the genuine Fet's ARE etched. What's the first thing people do at a crime scene? Photograph everything in sight, from afar , up close, zoomed in, under a microscope, you name it. There was already significant evidence out there about A} The Controllers working and B} the Mosfets being smeared with heatsink compound and bearing, upon doing so, an uncanny resemblance to the Leo fets.

I won't go back in time, so I'll stick with the last 24hours or so. You blew your super controller, but Leo's survives, so whose controller is better?

Superficially the Leo controller is better, but its not really a straight comparison, Methods was in the early stages of development. That said you have a point. Leo's T-34 outlasted Methods King-Tiger.

The bottom line is that Leo delivers and has been doing so to ES members since late last year, with no complaints that I'm aware. On top of that he's a nice guy and seems eager to give good service. You're a direct competitor and magically after 50 emails (after telling me you didn't want any direct involvement), you didn't get what you want and have been on the attack in an overt manner since your package arrived. How would you feel if someone did that to you? Do the right thing and clean up your mess.

I find Methods commercial conflict of interests hard to ignore. I am not saying it is determinative of anything, but it remains striking to say the least.

 

[methods]

Methods,

To assume that good english means no communication problems is a huge mistake, as was special orders in how many emails did you say...50?. That would probably confuse me and I'm pretty thorough. You told me to arrange an order for 5 stock controllers with 4110's at max settings, so I did, because I figured you wanted to check out these boards, since they were working well with my hard to drive motors. Whatever you did in lots of correspondence other than simply send payment is likely the cause of your issues.

Fair enough

My 6 orders with Leo for almost 20 controllers have gone fine, unless your special requests messed up my pair 24s. Hopefully the low current setting is just that controller (Worst case it's something we can both easily work around) Maybe the mistake was simply forgetting 1 shunt wire, or maybe it's simply caused by a 3 speed setting and not a mistake at all. Did you think to order 100% as setting #2 like I always do to ensure the default is 100%. I don't know the cause and it's contrary to my experience to date with Leo where all controllers have met or exceeded spec in terms of current limits. That includes 3 different sizes of controller in my first order, 8 identical controllers in my second, and some singles and doubles since then. Other than the throttle override wire issue on the CA connector, which originated from some old wiring diagram on Justin's site, and is something I can easily fix, my only issue has been miscommunication about regen, but that seems to be ironed out.

I did not think of the 3spd switch as being the cause but it is possible... unlikely though because typically a 3spd switch scales the throttle... so that if it were at 50% it would be like being at 1/2 throttle... which on a speed throttle would still apply the maximum current limit when loaded to near the stall speed. That is with an Infineon controller though - 3spd may work different with these

I trust Leo just fine and will continue to do business with him, and I certainly wouldn't have given my recommendation if I didn't already have a favorable track record with him. That's the way I work, and I don't do things like order a competitor's product just to find fault, especially in such a public manner and with made up stuff like about the fets.

I won't go back in time, so I'll stick with the last 24hours or so. You blew your super controller, but Leo's survives, so whose controller is better?

That would be a logical fallacy but you can make that sort of comparison if you like. If I though this was better or I was embarrassed in any way about it I would not have posted the information.

The bottom line is that Leo delivers and has been doing so to ES members since late last year, with no complaints that I'm aware. On top of that he's a nice guy and seems eager to give good service. You're a direct competitor and magically after 50 emails (after telling me you didn't want any direct involvement), you didn't get what you want and have been on the attack in an overt manner since your package arrived. How would you feel if someone did that to you? Do the right thing and clean up your mess.

Leo and I are not in competition. Leo is a direct competitor for Lyen as they offer a similar product at a similar price range. Leo sells these for $100 and they do maybe 100A. I will be charging $420 and mine will do near 200A.

I have been pretty harsh which I attribute to the wife/kid/lack of sleep. I did clean up my mess by going back and posting factual data to update my original review. I see your point - I am a competitor and I guess I dont think about it that way. I am equally critical of my own failures and I often make them public.

Which one is the 3spd switch?

-methods

John

 

[methods]

My 6 orders with Leo for almost 20 controllers have gone fine, unless your special requests messed up my pair 24s. Hopefully the low current setting is just that controller (Worst case it's something we can both easily work around) Maybe the mistake was simply forgetting 1 shunt wire, or maybe it's simply caused by a 3 speed setting and not a mistake at all. Did you think to order 100% as setting #2 like I always do to ensure the default is 100%.

Until we get a definitive answer to this question I am going to give Leo the benefit of the doubt.

Fair enough - I will try the 3spd switch. If that is the cause then it should be noted that the GreenTime controller handles 3spd switch input different thant eh Infineon - perhaps in a better way.

I don't know the cause and it's contrary to my experience to date with Leo where all controllers have met or exceeded spec in terms of current limits.

I got 52Amps from 12s1p 18650 ebay A123 on my 12Fet 36v controller. The cells failed and burned but I got my 50A and left my garage floor looking like the rejects section at a Durex Factory.

So you also had a controller come it at 50? Please explain more.

I trust Leo just fine and will continue to do business with him, and I certainly wouldn't have given my recommendation if I didn't already have a favorable track record with him. That's the way I work, and I don't do things like order a competitor's product just to find fault, especially in such a public manner and with made up stuff like about the fets.

I missed this on my last response. Ordering competitors products? Made up stuff about fets? He is not a competitor to me in the same way that Lyen is not a competitor... we are aiming at a very different market. He is in a race to the bottom on pricing (as was Lyen) and I am trying to offer a no compromises "best I can make" controller.

Made up stuff about fets? I made up nothing. I made observations which I then validated through scientific experimentation. I then made further observations which I noted as my opinion.

It was reasonable for Methods to suggest that the FET's were fake. My heart dropped when I opened up my controllers. I just assumed I had been ripped off. But I took my time, did some ghetto tests, did some basic physical manipulation, took zoom photos and uploaded them to the net. Methods has undoubtedly applied scientific rigour but scientific rigour comes in many guises. First rule of Science? Observations. Methods said that he had observed thousands of fets....but an amateur like me knew that the genuine Fet's ARE etched. What's the first thing people do at a crime scene? Photograph everything in sight, from afar , up close, zoomed in, under a microscope, you name it. There was already significant evidence out there about A} The Controllers working and B} the Mosfets being smeared with heatsink compound and bearing, upon doing so, an uncanny resemblance to the Leo fets.

I won't go back in time, so I'll stick with the last 24hours or so. You blew your super controller, but Leo's survives, so whose controller is better?

Superficially the Leo controller is better, but its not really a straight comparison, Methods was in the early stages of development. That said you have a point. Leo's T-34 outlasted Methods King-Tiger.

Yea... my controller was also running at 100A while this Leo was running at 50A. That is not a comparison.

The bottom line is that Leo delivers and has been doing so to ES members since late last year, with no complaints that I'm aware. On top of that he's a nice guy and seems eager to give good service. You're a direct competitor and magically after 50 emails (after telling me you didn't want any direct involvement), you didn't get what you want and have been on the attack in an overt manner since your package arrived. How would you feel if someone did that to you? Do the right thing and clean up your mess.

I find Methods commercial conflict of interests hard to ignore. I am not saying it is determinative of anything, but it remains striking to say the least.

That is a very fair point to bring up and I often forget that I am now considered a vendor. I can see where it would appear beneficial for me to discredit this new retailer in order to try and make more money myself.

Did I not just get done praising Keywin another ultra low cost source for controllers? Would I not also trash him if that was my mode of operation?
Do I not always share my sources and encourage people to buy direct and DIY?

-methods

 

[methods]

I trust Leo just fine and will continue to do business with him, and I certainly wouldn't have given my recommendation if I didn't already have a favorable track record with him. That's the way I work, and I don't do things like order a competitor's product just to find fault, especially in such a public manner and with made up stuff like about the fets.

John

You know what? frock you John. Those are fighting words.

If you want to publicly call me out as a shyster by stating that I wasted my time and money ordering these controllers just to badmouth them then you are a fool. I ordered these controllers to evaluate them and that is what I have done. I did state before both of my reviews that I was tired and grouchy but nothing in them was slanderous or untrue. Just because you have had good experiences does not mean that I did - and I am entitled to bitch on the internet without being called out as anti-competitive

You can call me anything you want... but dont even think about saying that I order and review competitors products just to try and damage their reputation. Completely absurd.

-methods

 

[The Mighty Volt]

For me, its not a question that you "made up things" about FET's, but the following is absolutely true.

1. You either didn't know, or ignored, that somebody had roughed-up a genuine known 4110 to look exactly like a suspected fake.

2. That despite handling "literally thousands, more than anyone else" of 4110's, you didn't know they were etched and explicitly stated they were not etched, hence the suspicion that the etched-fet's of Leo were, by necessary extension, fake.

3. You seemed {and it is just that, and nothing more} to afford little to no value to the simple fact that a forum member was using one of these controllers under stress and was yet to report a FET-related failure.

Always remember, I had the same gut feeling you did when I opened my controller. I thought they were fakes. I got a Hua Tong with beautiful clean looking FET's {IR 1407}and of course Ed Lyens always looked the part too. Leos did not. I held my tongue, took a photo, uploaded it, and sat back. If, and please forgive me for being so direct, I think this is Johns point...if you had done the same.....things might have gone smoother.

You were of course correct to point out that you asked for fat traces and didn't get them.

You were of course correct to allude to the delays involved, I encountered the same delays.

In the meantime, when I used Lyens 18 Fet controller, the controller always drew less amps when limited by the 3-speed switch. It hit peak A of 80 on #3 and never more than 40 on #1. I'd be obliged if you could go back and check it out for us, just so we know. Thanks.

 

[methods]

Can someone please point me to where the 3spd switch is so that I can finish this review and get the hell out of here? I knew 3 pages ago that I no longer wanted to participate in this effort and LIKE A FOOL I finished my review at the request of a member. Wish I had never even turned the god damn controller on at this point.

All I have is a bunch of 2 pin connectors.
How do I activate it?

-methods

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Can someone please point me to where the 3spd switch is so that I can finish this review and get the hell out of here? I knew 3 pages ago that I no longer wanted to participate in this effort and LIKE A FOOL I finished my review at the request of a member. Wish I had never even turned the god damn controller on at this point.

All I have is a bunch of 2 pin connectors.
How do I activate it?

-methods

My three speed connector is three wires, Blue, Black, Orange.

Listen, sincerely, if you are pissed over how things have gone, then it doesn't matter. Its not worth the aggro.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

LOL

If this guy doesn't have a 3 speed connector on his...... ....

 

[ian.mich]

Can someone please point me to where the 3spd switch is so that I can finish this review and get the hell out of here? I knew 3 pages ago that I no longer wanted to participate in this effort and LIKE A FOOL I finished my review at the request of a member. Wish I had never even turned the god damn controller on at this point.

All I have is a bunch of 2 pin connectors.
How do I activate it?

-methods

My three speed connector is three wires, Blue, Black, Orange.

Listen, sincerely, if you are pissed over how things have gone, then it doesn't matter. Its not worth the aggro.

which wires do you connect to make it go to max (setting 3)?

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Wires on the top of the loom are from the controller. Wires on the bottom of the loom are coming from the 3 speed/throttle.

 

[ian.mich]

Wires on the top of the loom are from the controller. Wires on the bottom of the loom are coming from the 3 speed/throttle.

so which ones are connected together by the 3 speed to make it go to max speed?

 

[methods]

Here is a picture.
I have only one 3 pin connector which is throttle



I a so F'ing done with this.
If someone cant post it soon I will take the damn thing apart again and reverse engineer the retarded cryptic nonsense on the PCB.

-methods

 

[methods]

LOL

If this guy doesn't have a 3 speed connector on his...... ....

I will tell you what I don't have... is documentation on any of the connectors or what they do. I was only able to find the power wire by a process of elimination - it had to have 2 wires one of which was tied to the CA+ and one of which was tied to the Main power line.

And it appears that I dont have a 3spd switch connector - at least not like yours.

-methods

 

[ian.mich]

LOL

If this guy doesn't have a 3 speed connector on his...... ....

I will tell you what I don't have... is documentation on any of the connectors or what they do. I was only able to find the power wire by a process of elimination - it had to have 2 wires one of which was tied to the CA+ and one of which was tied to the Main power line.

And it appears that I dont have a 3spd switch connector - at least not like yours.

-methods

looks like you dont have 3 speed as far as i can tell, maybe your right leo didnt set it up properly, or setting 2 is default when you dont opt for 3 speed. still, current can be solved by just adding some solder, no biggy. still would like to know what wires the 3 speed connects, Volt.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

LOL

If this guy doesn't have a 3 speed connector on his...... ....

I will tell you what I don't have... is documentation on any of the connectors or what they do. I was only able to find the power wire by a process of elimination - it had to have 2 wires one of which was tied to the CA+ and one of which was tied to the Main power line.

And it appears that I dont have a 3spd switch connector - at least not like yours.

-methods

Well, now you do have a legitimate reason to be sincerely frock-ed off with this guy. He included a wiring color scheme with mine but there's no point giving it to you if you asked for a 3 speed connector and didn't get one. Sorry about that, nobody deserves that, especially after putting in so much time. That is unacceptable.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

LOL

If this guy doesn't have a 3 speed connector on his...... ....

I will tell you what I don't have... is documentation on any of the connectors or what they do. I was only able to find the power wire by a process of elimination - it had to have 2 wires one of which was tied to the CA+ and one of which was tied to the Main power line.

And it appears that I dont have a 3spd switch connector - at least not like yours.

-methods

looks like you dont have 3 speed as far as i can tell, maybe your right leo didnt set it up properly, or setting 2 is default when you dont opt for 3 speed. still, current can be solved by just adding some solder, no biggy. still would like to know what wires the 3 speed connects, Volt.

Hang on...I will find my throttle/3 speed combo, then tell you what is what.

 

[nicobie]

If this happened to me I would have reacted as methods did.

Traces wen't built up.
Won't pull 80a (as advertised).
Didn't come with a 3 speed switch plug. Don't know if methods asked for one, but it is not the reason it won't pull 80a out of the box.
No wiring diagram.

The only thing I might have done different was talk to Leo about the problems.

That said, I don't think it is fair to jump method's ass about bad mouthing his competitors. I hope he doesn't get pissed and quit risking his butt spending perfectly good $ blowing up stuff for the benefit of E-S's knowledge base. Other than Luke, he is about the only guy that knows what he is talking about AND does destructive testing.

I, for one, try to buy everything I can from him so he can continue to afford to further the ebike cause. IMHO most everybody else is just in it for the money. That is OK too, as it isn't really smart to work for free.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

If this happened to me I would have reacted as methods did.

Traces wen't built up.
Won't pull 80a (as advertised).
Didn't come with a 3 speed switch plug. Don't know if methods asked for one, but it is not the reason it won't pull 80a out of the box.
No wiring diagram.

The only thing I might have done different was talk to Leo about the problems.

That said, I don't think it is fair to jump method's ass about bad mouthing his competitors. I hope he doesn't get pissed and quit risking his butt spending perfectly good $ blowing up stuff for the benefit of E-S's knowledge base. Other than Luke, he is about the only guy that knows what he is talking about AND does destructive testing.

I, for one, try to buy everything I can from him so he can continue to afford to further the ebike cause. IMHO most everybody else is just in it for the money. That is OK too, as it isn't really smart to work for free.

Nic...I can't see a single post in this thread where I can legitimately disagree with what anyone said....only the way they said it.

Like you, I would have spoken to Leo first. But that's a personal judgment call.

I don't blame Methods for being pissed, I don't blame John for his views, or any of this.

I don't like to see guys here fighting.

 

[methods]

I have a bad habit of going public before speaking privately but that is kind of what a product review is all about. When they do other product reviews on the internet Car and Driver does not call up Ford and say... "uh... you know there is a problem with this right?". They do the review and you get your feedback publicly.

When you develop a product professionally there comes a point where you have a "Design Review" in any engineering firm. You take what you have at that point in front of a panel of engineers and they tear you apart. There are no pats on the back or excuses - it works or it doesn't and you get your feedback right then and there. It is hard but it is helpful and real engineers lick their wounds and get to work fixing things.

Leo up until now has not reacted to information I have sent him in private - like the correct way to wire up a CA. I am a change maker - I make shit happen... and if causing a stir-up on the internet makes Leo start populating the CA correctly then we all win. Not the best way but a way... so lets get it done.

As far as my attitude... yea I am tired and pissy and a bit of a dick lately. I sleep 4 hours a night and am staying at my mothers house while I build mine. And John and I have some history.... I am a sensitive guy who flies by the seat of his pants. It is easy to get a rise out of me. I don't apologize for that because it is the same passion that drives me to test this stupid shit until 3AM in the morning. I am pretty much a crazy guy and I don't pretend to be well behaved.

Now someone please post up any info you have on 3spd switch like the PCB connections so I can get the hell out of here and stop watching this thread.

-methods

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Okay Methods: I just whipped open my 24 Fet.

The 3 speed throttle has three wires.

Black, which is wired to one pad in a series of "Grounds".

Blue and Orange: Blue is wired to Pad "Q" and Orange which is wired to pad "ZF" in a vertical row of pads.

I am uploading photos right now; Please bear with me.