H.I.D (HID) Lights

[nitecheck]

Hi - I've upgraded my lighting system - removed my twin halogen 5w & 15W kit & installed a (1)12w HID light (12 Deg lamp) to run in addition to my "be seen" LED's.
I almost brought 2 HID kits to replace my twin set up (battery NIMH died) - but I'm glad I did'nt - as the HID is great! It's at least 5 times as bright has the halogen kit, clear white light that actually allows you to see road debris/conditions in enough detail & time to avoid hazards, with longer run times to boot - (4.2AH LIFEPo4 battery pack).

My question is... when things are too good ...often the law has issues with them... in Oz are these lights legal to use on the road?
I know that HID upgrades for cars breach ADR (Oz Design Rules) if they are not auto leveling - but pedal or electric assisted bicycles (200w) are not governed by ADR.
Although I have checked the NSW RTA website for some answers - it would appear that the RTA is mute on the issue. Does anyone know if the HID's can be used by bicycle's on the road? As a matter of courtsey I keep the light angled low & to the the curb, only used in areas without adequate street lighting & rely on LED's where street lighting allows me to see the road (well...as good as you can by street lamp). I'm a little selfconcious using the light as it is that good & if riding in traffic I would not like the unwanted attention...etc
Any thoughts?

 

[nitecheck]

Thanks - for looking but I guess u all are in the dark as me on this. I've decided to look at problem from a drivers point of view & decided to add a "shutter" to deflect light down & to narrow the width of the beam. So ultimately I should have a bright "spot" light aimed at the road a few metres in front of the bike. Hopefully this set up will avoid "wandering light" as you turn the bars - from effecting motorists & allow me to use the light more.

 

[voicecoils]

I've thought about HID too. Jaycar.com.au has a 35w one for reasonably cheap, part # SL3368

Where did you get yours?

I've just done a bit of googling of Aussie HID kits for bicycles, they're out there:
http://www.niteflux.com/default.aspx
etc...

But none mention legality on the road. I don't know if that's because it's a non-issue or if they are avoiding the issue. They don't say "for off road use only" anywhere either. I've looked through a few sites and no one seems to address it in they're "FAQ" etc...

How are you powering yours?

 

[nitecheck]

I was just checking out ebay & found an Oz-seller who had Levin Bright Star kits for sale - new for about $170 from memory. I've checked but can not see them for sale now - the kit was new & included all pre-made wiring, li-charger & 4AH li-cyclinder battery (that my be stored in a pannier or simply velcro strapped to the frame.)
The kit apears to be a Chinese import - as the charger was included with a oz power adaptor. The battery is ultra light, marked as water proof & provides power for ages. Looking at the LBS's & other Ebay sellers - the costs of "similar kits" is about $300 - $450+ - way outside my budget for a light!! So it would appear I lucked out - the only draw back is there are no spares or warranty etc from the seller - but this can't really be expected considering the price. But if the bulb does go.. etc - I should be able to source parts of the net etc.

 

[Kurt]

The Jacar HID at 35w would be like strapping a light house to your bike :lol: A friend of mine replaced his car lights with jaycar's HIDs even during the day it was like looking at a welding arc.I am a bit behind the times and still run standard led lights.I think they are fine for flashing lights just so people know your there but something better for forward vision would be nice.

Do the HID lights get hot?

I am just thinking with the Jaycar globe its designed to fit into a headlight reflector. What kind of light would it project when not mounted into the reflector. Or perhaps if they don't get hot some some kind of torch or fog light could be modified to fit it one.

I was at anaconda outdoor/sporting shop a couple of days ago and some of the Luxeon led headlamps/torches are inexpensive now.
Kurt.

 

[voicecoils]

The Jacar HID at 35w would be like strapping a light house to your bike :lol: A friend of mine replaced his car lights with jaycar's HIDs even during the day it was like looking at a welding arc.I am a bit behind the times and still run standard led lights.I think they are fine for flashing lights just so people know your there but something better for forward vision would be nice.

Do the HID lights get hot?

I am just thinking with the Jaycar globe its designed to fit into a headlight reflector. What kind of light would it project when not mounted into the reflector. Or perhaps if they don't get hot some some kind of torch or fog light could be modified to fit it one.

I was at anaconda outdoor/sporting shop a couple of days ago and some of the Luxeon led headlamps/torches are inexpensive now.
Kurt.

I'd like to try one, but yes they WOULD probably be insanely bright. You'd have to play around with reflectors and maybe lens covers too to get an appropriate beam. Ideally I'd want a flooded area of light right in front of the bike to spot potholes, fallen branches, etc and a wider farther thrown beam to spot animals, speed bumps, street signs, turn offs, etc. I'm not sure that could easily be accomplished with just one light.

I look forward to the upcoming LED lights from ebike.ca which can be run with no dc-dc converter too.

I've read the bulb housings get up to 60-90 degrees C for car HID lights. The actual bulb would likely be hotter. The ballast (some sort of transformer) would generate some heat too no doubt, since it won't be 100% efficient.

Four of our 10ah headway cells would power the Jaycar light for approximately 4 hours. I just road my red ebike at 36v for almost 30km and only used ~215Wh (5.7Ah). I think the Jaycar light would do just fine with a ~50W or so DC-DC converter.

 

[Kurt]

35w isn't much consumption But I think the output is overkill and its just going to be difficult to make it work practically on a bike.I have used a large MAG light that had a Luxeon globe in it and that seemed like enough output. I was thinking a twin Luxeon set up.One set on wide beam and one set on spot.
kurt.

 

[voicecoils]

35w isn't much consumption But I think the output is overkill and its just going to be difficult to make it work practically on a bike.I have used a large MAG light that had a Luxeon globe in it and that seemed like enough output. I was thinking a twin Luxeon set up.One set on wide beam and one set on spot.
kurt.

It's the price that attracts most. I don't want to shell out for an expensive bike system with a baby nicad or lithium pack. I've already got the juice on board.

More then three times the power (35w vs 10w) and a third the cost or better, that's what's appealing

 

[nitecheck]

The Brightstar has a 12w bulb - but the light is so very different from a good LED's or my 10w & 5w Halogen twin kit. A 35w would be way too bright ..like high beam on a car.
Too hot to boot (it would melts a plastic housing)...

The reflector is 12deg, but the 6deg refector would be much better (6deg is an option with these kits & so is a 5AH battery)
The light does get much hotter than a halogen but cools ok while riding - but there is no comparing the light output. I mount the light underneath the handlebars - centre mounted (the bracket is able to be variably offset) as the actual light housing is pretty long. This is the kit:
http://www.brightstar-hid.com/product_info_e.php?UID=773

 

[MidniteTweeker]

But when you can build your own LED light using 3 watt stars at approximately 100 lumens apiece, why use HID?

I've built lights with 3 and 4 LED's. The 4 LED light fits into a 2 inch cube. I'd guess it's weight at around 125 grams. At night from 3/4 mile away I can tell there's a sign ahead. The 4 LED light can use any battery with a voltage between ~15 to 30V as long as it can provide 1 amp. After an hour of operation they are warm, but not hot. Not affected by vibration. If an LED should fail, a replacement star is ~$11. I've used both Ni-mh and li-ion batteries. Currently using a 2600 mah li-ion (about the size of two decks of cards) that gives about 2.6 hours per charge.

The total cost of the 4 LED light (400 lumens) was ~$100 USD. Plus, it was a fun project.

I used to lust after an HID setup. Not any more.

MT

 

[boostjuice]

I plan on using a spiderfire 5x cree Q5 LED 1000 lumen tactical torch modified with the head cut off and mounted on the handlebar. Ill keep the battery stick (normally the torch handle) mounted to the frame with some fly wires between the two. You get the the efficiency of 93lumens per watt compared with HID that can only offer at best around 69lumens per watt. Batteries and charger are included, massive brightness and its quite cheap. AU$150 delivered from Hong Kong. (Before the Australian Dollar crashed it was only AU$100)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Spiderfire-C...3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318


This would also be a good one;
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-P7-LED-C...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:16|39:1|240:1318

The only thing im concerned about is the beam divergence angle. Most torches are too focussed for a bike light.

 

[voicecoils]

The total cost of the 4 LED light (400 lumens) was ~$100 USD. Plus, it was a fun project.

I used to lust after an HID setup. Not any more.

MT

Any idea how many lumens a 35w HID light would output? I don't, but the one I listed is ~$60USD and only needs DC-DC stepdown converter to be used with ebike battery packs.

LED's have much lower power consumption for sure but in some instances even 35w continuous drain is not a big issue. Carrying 700+ Wh in batteries gives plenty of power for both lighting and powering the ebike.

 

[voicecoils]

I plan on using a spiderfire 5x cree Q5 LED 1000 lumen tactical torch modified with the head cut off and mounted on the handlebar. Ill keep the battery stick (normally the torch handle) mounted to the frame with some fly wires between the two. You get the the efficiency of 93lumens per watt compared with HID that can only offer at best around 69lumens per watt. Batteries and charger are included, massive brightness and its quite cheap. AU$150 delivered from Hong Kong. (Before the Australian Dollar crashed it was only AU$100)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Spiderfire-C...3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318


This would also be a good one;
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-P7-LED-C...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:16|39:1|240:1318

The only thing im concerned about is the beam divergence angle. Most torches are too focussed for a bike light.

Ok, so 69 lm/watt for HID. 35w HID costs $89AUD (~$60USD) that I linked above. So that's 2415 lumen, or ~27 lm/AUD.
Compared with the better priced link you gave of 1000 lumens for $150. That's 6.7 lm/AUD. Sure you get a lower power consumption unit with it's own battery, but I've already got a big battery on the bike, just need the DC-DC.

 

[Kurt]

By the time you factor in the cost of the housing for the HID and then the dc to dc step down also you time looking for both and building both i dont think you will be saving anything .2000 lumens will be so bright that you will need some kind of automated hight adjustment for it to keep it from blinding on coming traffic.

Most ebikes only travel at say 70kmh max and more like 35kmh average.In a car at this kind of speed low beam would be fine.The torches look ugly and expensive perhaps even over kill.A good bike light even second-hand that has a good reflector for a spread of light and mounting hardware with it for your bike not to mention a good one will be water proof and then replacing the globe with a 5w or 10w led and a dc/dc stepdown.
Kurt.

 

[boostjuice]

By the time you factor in the cost of the housing for the HID and then the dc to dc step down also you time looking for both and building both i dont think you will be saving anything .2000 lumens will be so bright that you will need some kind of automated hight adjustment for it to keep it from blinding on coming traffic.

Most ebikes only travel at say 70kmh max and more like 35kmh average. In a car at this kind of speed low beam would be fine.The torches look ugly and expensive perhaps even over kill.A good bike light even second-hand that has a good reflector for a spread of light and mounting hardware with it for your bike not to mention a good one will be water proof and then replacing the globe with a 5w or 10w led and a dc/dc stepdown.
Kurt.

In my opinion, its not lumen overkill that makes these powerful lights unsuitable. They can be as powerful as you desire to give you maximum warning of upcoming low-level hazards, the light just has to be thrown in the right areas. The traffic blinding side-effect you mention can be resolved.

My fix is to place a horizontal shade over the top of one of these wide beam divergence torches so that the light fills the both the near foreground widely and far in front (due to the extreme power) but not higher than ~1m from the ground when on the flat. This allows early warning of low-level hazards without blinding drivers and other cyclists (unless on recumberants :lol: ). Of course when nearing or peaking the crests of hills, there will be a few moments when the light may hit the eyes of oncoming traffic. This is no different to low beams of cars doing the same thing when you are driving. And car beams are no weaker than the powerful LED/HID's we are talking about.

The problem with generic bike lights is that while they do have a reasonably wide beam divergence, they have no horizontal shade on top of the reflector and they are also underpowered for the speed of my e-bike (~60kph on straights). Being marketed specifically for cycling, they are usually 2~3times more expensive per lumen than the high powered "tactical torch" offerings. I want to be able to clearly identify a ground level hazard 100m up the road. A 200lumen generic bike light will not do this nearly as well as 1000 lumen torch modified that costs less.

Oh and pro's of LED's vs HID's
-Solid state = vibration resistant
-usually >50,000 hours life. No expensive bulb to replace ever.
-More efficient. Yes we may have big batteries already, but why burn power that could be saved for extra range.
-pricing is very similar. lumens per dollar changes over the lumen range so its not cut n' dry.