Avitt
100 W
What is the least expensive bike which uses the Bosch OEM system? (I'm interested to know the disparity between the least and most expensive Bosch-based bikes, in order to infer how much of the cost is due to the drive system.)
Avitt said:What is the least expensive bike which uses the Bosch OEM system? (I'm interested to know the disparity between the least and most expensive Bosch-based bikes, in order to infer how much of the cost is due to the drive system.)
THere is no "US" countrywide law about what ebikes can be, on-road. The only thing there is is a CPSC regulation regarding what defines an ebike for the purposes of what manufacturers should sell as an ebike.maxwell92036 said:OK let's define legal. In the US from my understanding it is 750 watts and 20MPH with throttle and I guess up to 28MPH with pedal assist.
I didn't mean to keep up with traffic all the way up to whatever cars go; I mean to get out of their way at a light where one MUST take the center of the regular lane, becuase there is no bicycle thru-lane, and taking the right portion of the rightmost lane will result in being run over by cars turning that don't even look to see that you are there.In regards to being able to keep up with traffic that has never been the purpose of a bicycle or in my opinion an e-bike. If I want to accelerate with the cars and not get "run over" then I might as well get an electric motorcycle. I think trying to keep up with traffic on an ebike fabricated to go 50 MPH is a heck of a lot more dangerous and certainly well beyond the bounds of legal at least here in the states.
There's a few states and localities that have different ones; some dont' even define an ebike at all (or any kind of assisted bike), which means that it's up to law enforcement and the courts to decide if they want to ticket and try those using them, depending on how their vehicle code is set up.I am surprised that Arizona has different laws in regards to e-bike power restrictions.
When I only have 1kW in a typical hubmotor (like my 20" rear wheel), and I have the dogs in the trailer, or a load of dog food, it takes me upwards of 12-15 seconds to get across the intersection from a stop, more on some of them. This is an eternity to any cars behind me, and many are not that patient. If they cant go around me in the other lanes because of other traffic, they'll begin doing dangerously stupid things.I also see lots of examples of cargo bikes hauling heavy loads with under 1000 watt motors. Sure you go slower but with heavy loads that is probably a good thing.
And when my body was in better shape, I did that sort of thing (not in lycra but that's because I didn't really know anything about bicycle stuff other than how to ride one, more or less, until I started my assist quest several years ago). I've never had high quality bikes, just junk someone else didn't want, but I had a lot of fun with them and they have been my main transport mode most of my life. (I've never needed a driver's license or car; the few occasions I need to move stuff (or travel) outside my capabilites, I've had friends I could go with).It seems a lot of forum members dislike the "lycra" crowd. Well give it a chance sometime. Riding a high quality bike (either road or mountain) with comfortable gear that you can ride in all day with is quite an experience.
That is exactly what mine is. With it I don't need a car. Without it, I would be unable to do most of the travel I want and/or need to do, because I can't afford a car with the extortionate insurance rackets here, even if I wanted one (which I don't).I like e-bikes because I see them as a replacement for the car, commuting, shopping
Someday I'd like to do that...but around here it'd probably get stolen. Nobody wants my junkbikes so they get left alone. :lol: Besides, I can't afford any of that stuff new, and rarely run across anything used like that at an affordable price.And it is nice to see some members understand what a quality bike can bring to the equation when building up an e-bike from scratch.
Yup. If you've got some lazy bills lying around and want to enter the multi-hued world of eBikes, or want to upgrade, then put those dollars on the most expensive troublesome component - the battery. On my MAC 10T/Trek Shift 3 build, I spent about $650 apiece on three parts: a new Trek Shift 3, a new A123 AMP20 48 volt 20ah battery build, and the MAC kit complete with Infineon 12fet 4110 controller, throttle and so forth. So spent about $2000 total for the build, including shipping. And expect it performs as well as or better than those Haibike. On the road. I'm not travelling trail or doing downhill MTB or racing.EVTodd said:Yup, been to many bike shops lately. I don't think I've seen anything even close to $5000. My personal opinion is if you are paying over $1000 for a bike you're doing it for bragging rights. If I had unlimited funds I might think differently but I doubt it. There's only so much to be gained on a bike by throwing more money at it.
EVTodd said:maxwell92036 said:That is pretty much the going price. Been into a bike shop lately and looked at the price of non motorized full suspension bikes? Many over $5,000. Of course you could go to Wallmart and pick up a full suspension bike for under $200. If you want a Bosch system on a quality bike you have to pay the piper.
Yup, been to many bike shops lately. I don't think I've seen anything even close to $5000. My personal opinion is if you are paying over $1000 for a bike you're doing it for bragging rights. If I had unlimited funds I might think differently but I doubt it. There's only so much to be gained on a bike by throwing more money at it.
2old said:I'd be interested in a Bosch mid bike, even a fully rigid, for $2000 -$2500.
Avitt said:What is the least expensive bike which uses the Bosch OEM system? (I'm interested to know the disparity between the least and most expensive Bosch-based bikes, in order to infer how much of the cost is due to the drive system.)
arkmundi said:These bikes are made for very hard technical downhill riding.
Since e-biking has zero representatives on our trails, we don't need to go stealth, it's simply not an issue. I think any MTB with any kind of motor just draw curiosity, nothing more. That's why this powerful kit is of interest. But I agree, I'd rather pay for Bafang and have all these battery options open, than pay 4000 euro for 12 kilos pack...kfong said:I looked at the Ego units, unfortunately they are not an option due to the gear noise. They are basically repackaged cyclone motors. Way too obvious in the trails, since that was my first foray into the world of Ebikes. With the negative reactions to Ebikes in the mountanbike commo going stealth is the only option.
maxwell92036 said:Quality mountain bikes come at a price. It is not about showing it off or snob appeal. Quality mountain bike forks cost 500 dollars plus. Quality wheelsets cost $500 plus. You can get a decent mountain bike at $2,000 but for much less you start sacrificing. Good luck trying to piece together a full suspension bike that will be comparable to $5,000 bikes for under $1500. Almost everyone watches their money and bicyclists are no different. Trust me if they could spend $1,500 on a bike that would perform like a $5,000 one they would be all over it.
Abagrizzli said:Any biking (mountain, road, street, electric) is a hobby, as much as it sport. And as such, the price doesn't really matter, as long as there is some statement behind the product. You can commute on a Walmart 150$ "bike", and it will take you wherever you need without much fuss. But most of us looking not just for "going from point A to point B using our leg power and two wheels", but rather a full time occupation in continuous upgrade and alteration of the much beloved machine. Objectively, more expensive stuff is better at many levels, than cheap components. It's more durable, more efficient, more designed, have a brand on it. Do you really need it? I suppose not. But do you want it?
To make my point in short - it's not about the price, it's about how much you are ready to invest in your hobby.
arkmundi said:These bikes are made for very hard technical downhill riding.
hmm...120mm suspension hardly qualifies as a downhill bike but I understand your reasoning.
EVTodd said:Abagrizzli said:Any biking (mountain, road, street, electric) is a hobby, as much as it sport. And as such, the price doesn't really matter, as long as there is some statement behind the product. You can commute on a Walmart 150$ "bike", and it will take you wherever you need without much fuss. But most of us looking not just for "going from point A to point B using our leg power and two wheels", but rather a full time occupation in continuous upgrade and alteration of the much beloved machine. Objectively, more expensive stuff is better at many levels, than cheap components. It's more durable, more efficient, more designed, have a brand on it. Do you really need it? I suppose not. But do you want it?
To make my point in short - it's not about the price, it's about how much you are ready to invest in your hobby.
Now I can agree with most of that! Like I said, I have hobbies that I spend way too much money on too. If spending $5k on a bike floats yer boat then great. But, just because a bike part is more expensive doesn't mean it's better. Some stuff is just made by smaller companies that have to sell their stuff for more to make money. I was around the bike industry for several years, there are a lot of expensive crap products out there too.
And do I want it? Hell yeah, I want a Haibike for sure. That's why I'm pissed that they're too damn expensive. lol :lol: I think that brought the conversation around full circle!
Its a good question, of what goes into the make, the true cost to manufacture this bike. And what Currie is going to do with it. I expect we'll see them put a different motor & battery in it, and drop the price to put it in the hands of more people. Attempting to mainstream and build volume. Their acquisition was for the name-brand and balance of components. At what price might I pause to consider? Around $4000 to $4500. If I had the stamina to do MTB trail again that is.maxwell92036 said:Bicycles are in a very competitive market. Lot's of manufacturers so they have to compete for the customer much like all other industries do. I don't think too many people are getting rich in the bicycle business. I had a bike shop for years and I know what the margins are and it is even more competitive today. XC full suspension can be as much or more than a downhill bike. Probably at least half the cost of the Haibike is in the motor and battery. So you are looking at around $2500 for the bike and if you study the components they are pretty good, so it is probably a pretty fair price. Of course one could always wait til the new models come out and hope to get some closeout discount on it.